Christmas Camp

[Morse]

So, who's off to Christmas camp this year?
Do you think all the new Stirling coaches will be part of it?
I heard Doug Frost does a lot of distance so I wouldn't fancy being in that group!

[HaggisBasher]

I heard Doug Frost does a lot of distance

Jeez, what secret underground info source did you get that from?
I need to sign myself up.
"Thorpes old coach dishes out a bit of distance"- I think that just might be scoop of the century.

Diddy

[Spidey]

Well I am off to Brighton for Christmas again this year- that's camp?

[Little Mo]

I heard Doug Frost does a lot of distance so I wouldn't fancy being in that group!On the plus side, I hear he does a bloody good santa impression. Ho ho ho!

[grumpyoldfart]

My wee boy is dreading it -he had a rough time last year as it was just swimming ,gym ,eating and sleeping and no fun -hes already asked if he can swerve it .
Im not sure how much benefit you get out of thrashing up and down perpetuating poor technique flaws for 4 days feeling shattered -he said there was hardly any technique work last year .he slept for 16 hours when he came home last hogmanay .
I think its v dependent on whos group you are in .
I think there is a lot of machismo at these camps to see who will crack 1st and go home .

[Improving a lot]

My wee boy is dreading it -he had a rough time last year as it was just swimming ,gym ,eating and sleeping and no fun -hes already asked if he can swerve it .
Im not sure how much benefit you get out of thrashing up and down perpetuating poor technique flaws for 4 days feeling shattered -he said there was hardly any technique work last year .he slept for 16 hours when he came home last hogmanay .
I think its v dependent on whos group you are in .
I think there is a lot of machismo at these camps to see who will crack 1st and go home .

I've been once, last year, and really enjoyed it. Then again, I was in Gary's group... I thought it was really beneficial to my swimming, although 1 week of lots of training only helps for a few weeks when you go back to the small club setup doing 12 hours a week.

I'd actually be quite disappointed that I'm not going this year, if it wasn't at Christmas :king: As for the machismo, I think that drives quite a lot of people on to do better. If we'd been told at the start "if you're feeling a bit tired, you can go home if you like" and everyone accepted that then I'd imagine there would be even more drop outs. But the fact that nobody wants to be the first pushes everyone on. Obviously the competitiveness of it won't be beneficial to everybody - I reckon the older boys in particular would be taken by it though.

[sparky]

My wee boy is dreading it -he had a rough time last year as it was just swimming ,gym ,eating and sleeping and no fun -hes already asked if he can swerve it .
Im not sure how much benefit you get out of thrashing up and down perpetuating poor technique flaws for 4 days feeling shattered -he said there was hardly any technique work last year .he slept for 16 hours when he came home last hogmanay .
I think its v dependent on whos group you are in .
I think there is a lot of machismo at these camps to see who will crack 1st and go home .

Sorry to hear there is no fun at the camp, must remember to tell my son not to try for his squad times and support from SS because it is just swimming, gym, eating and sleeping on the camps as opposed to swimming, eating, sleeping and schoolwork at home. Also to be honest oldfart if your son is trying to swerve the camp then maybe he should not be on the squad or be invited to the camp, I am sure others would be happy to take his place

[Spidey]

Yes, Spidey, this title thread is perfect for the Brighton Christmas.

Let the party games begin!

Looking forward to meeting the SAGA crew again.

[HaggisBasher]

Im not sure how much benefit you get out of thrashing up and down perpetuating poor technique flaws for 4 days feeling shattered -he said there was hardly any technique work last year


How much real technical development can you do in 4 days? You need to practice new skills many times to make them automatic. This means deliberate practice day after day for weeks, if not months.

If your kid had poor technique last year, and still has the same flaws this year then that means he's spent 361 days not working on it.

[sparky]

Grumpyoldfart, what happened to the message you posted the other day, it seems to have vanished - not having second thoughts about what you said are you?

[Slid]

Grumpyoldfart, what happened to the message you posted the other day, it seems to have vanished - not having second thoughts about what you said are you?

It wouldn't be the first thing to fail the "morning after" test.

[LAZy]

It wouldn't be the first thing to fail the "morning after" test.

tut tut...you being a church goer shouldn't know of such stuff.

Am I really the only person on here who doesn't have a xxxxxxxx clue what this is about?

Anyone linky to the camp you're all talking about?

[Linny]

Christmas camp is an opportunity for selected Scottish swimmers to train at Stirling between Christmas and New Year. Details aren't on the web, they are sent out to selected swimmers and their coaches. In the past, attendance was expected but this year it appears to be voluntary so I expect swimmers who can train with their regular Clubs may not go but for those whose local pools close over the festive period (and some do) many will indeed take advantage of the chance to train and socialise.

Nothing sinister.

[LAZy]

Thanks Linny...just wondered, and thought maybe I wasn't the only one to.

I don't mind admitting my ignorance .:wave:

[sub24]

I've been once, last year, and really enjoyed it. Then again, I was in Gary's group... I thought it was really beneficial to my swimming, although 1 week of lots of training only helps for a few weeks when you go back to the small club setup doing 12 hours a week.

Thanks. You made my day. And don't forget one of the things you were told...write it down! :thumb:

[Blocks]

Christmas camp is an opportunity for selected Scottish swimmers to train at Stirling between Christmas and New Year. Details aren't on the web, they are sent out to selected swimmers and their coaches. In the past, attendance was expected but this year it appears to be voluntary so I expect swimmers who can train with their regular Clubs may not go but for those whose local pools close over the festive period (and some do) many will indeed take advantage of the chance to train and socialise.

Apparently there is not much socialising happening at this year's camp.

Boys and girls are not being allowed to mix at all, they are even having separate boys and girls lanes when swimming.

Swimmers are being told to stay in their hotel rooms during the day when not swimming, land training or eating and they are not allowed to go to other swimmer's rooms.

My son has only been there for 24 hours and says he won't be keen to go back if he gets in next year !!!

[lane4]

Apparently there is not much socialising happening at this year's camp. Boys and girls are not being allowed to mix at all, they are even having separate boys and girls lanes when swimming. Swimmers are being told to stay in their hotel rooms during the day when not swimming, land training or eating and they are not allowed to go to other swimmer's rooms. My son has only been there for 24 hours and says he won't be keen to go back if he gets in next year !!!
Perhaps your boy has got his priorities mixed up? He should be there for training opportunities (which are surely good and most beneficial) but if his deciding factor about it's value is whether he is allowed to "socialise" in teenage girls hotel rooms (with parents far away) then it's possible he is there for the wrong reason? Do you not think resting in rooms between sessions to recover between workouts is an entirely sensible thing to do from a swimming point of view?

[Spidey]

I was going to post the same, but you got there first. I agree.

[Blocks]

You have missed my point, he is not looking to spend time in girls rooms. He is describing this training camp as a prison camp, he is saying he is being confined to his room for several hours. He understands the need for some segregation but is saying that it is too strict.

He does have his priorities correct, he is there to train and learn new things from different coaches but this camp appears to be very strict.

It was not made clear to us or him that he would be spending hours in his hotel room.

[Spidey]

What, may I ask, was he expecting to do when not swimming, land training or eating? Well earned rest I would suggest.

[Blocks]

What, may I ask, was he expecting to do when not swimming, land training or eating? Well earned rest I would suggest.

This is the first time he has been to this training camp so we were not clear on the format. In my opinion the draft copy of the timetable we were supplied doesn't make it clear that swimmers will be back at the hotel in their rooms for hours on end.

He is used to training twice a day since he does this 4 days a week anyway and he has to go to school in between these sessions.

He is not tired, he is bored out of his skull. He has attended training camps in the past and never complained of being bored before.

[sparky]

This is the first time he has been to this training camp so we were not clear on the format. In my opinion the draft copy of the timetable we were supplied doesn't make it clear that swimmers will be back at the hotel in their rooms for hours on end.

He is used to training twice a day since he does this 4 days a week anyway and he has to go to school in between these sessions.

He is not tired, he is bored out of his skull. He has attended training camps in the past and never complained of being bored before.

I'm sorry the camp seems too strict to some swimmers but I agree with lane4 that maybe these swimmers should get their priorities right, they are there to train and learn not any other reason, I'm sure plenty of other swimmers would be glad of the opportunity and maybe SS should really start to look at how the selection process is laid out and maybe enforce the edict that swimmers can be removed from squads as well as added since there seems to be a bit of moaning about camps etc, it seems that some maybe want to swim but don't want to commit enough out of the pool to get to the top.

[Blocks]

I'm sorry the camp seems too strict to some swimmers but I agree with lane4 that maybe these swimmers should get their priorities right, they are there to train and learn not any other reason, I'm sure plenty of other swimmers would be glad of the opportunity and maybe SS should really start to look at how the selection process is laid out and maybe enforce the edict that swimmers can be removed from squads as well as added since there seems to be a bit of moaning about camps etc, it seems that some maybe want to swim but don't want to commit enough out of the pool to get to the top.

As a parent and not a coach/swimmer I feel that there needs to be an adequate balance.

[sparky]

As a parent and not a coach/swimmer I feel that there needs to be an adequate balance.

So Blocks, as a Parent what should the balance be?

[Blocks]

So Blocks, as a Parent what should the balance be?

I appreciate that SS are doing their best to organise a suitable training camp and I am not moaning, my initial post was intended to simply highlight that there was not much socialising happening. However there is a wide range of ages on the camp, and whilst an 18 year old may be happy to "rest" in their hotel room for 2 hours, younger swimmers may need to be kept occupied. Possibly some education sessions from coaches or experienced swimmers or some team-building sessions, maybe allowing swimmers to get to know those from other regions (and by that I don't mean boys getting to know girls or vice-versa).

As I said before my son is there to train and learn, he is just bored. I wouldn't have spent several hours driving to Stirling on Boxing Day if I didn't think it would be beneficial to him to attend the camp.

[grumpyoldfart]

Curiously ive just spoken to my wee boy at stirling and hes v happy this year as he's in the group who swim at 8am and 8pm which is much more civilised than last year and hes enjoying the banter with all his pals who are also there -i was really pleased that he sounded so cheerfull and full of beans and no moaning at all .I don't see any harm in the boys and girls mixing in rooms or whatever -surely that's normal healthy behaviour for a 15 yo boy or girl .

[sparky]

Oh my God were you ever a 15 year old boy with hormones ( this is sparkys other half and if you ever worked with teenage children maybe you wouldnt have said something so daft)

[Improving a lot]

Last year I was in the group training 8am then at some time in the late afternoon, and I found that most people were happy to go back to their rooms after lunch and just sleep! I certainly did...

As for boys and girls (shock horror) socialising... why does male+female have to = frolicking in the bedroom?! Frankly, having been a 15yo boy with raging hormones fairly recently, I was unaccompanied in hotel rooms with plenty of girls and certainly never got any! Mixing with the opposite sex is normal and natural, and discouraging it will only breed curiosity and the will to rebel. At the end of the day, these athletes are young people too.

[sub24]

surely that's normal healthy behaviour for a 15 yo boy or girl

I would suspect that the organisers are fully aware of this and have taken steps to avoid 'normal healthy behaviour'..s under their watch. :doctor: Probably thinking back to their own personal experiences.

I think it would be fair to let swimmers know that the quiet times would be strictly enforced, but since the swimmers all have texting, NintendoDS etc they won't be out of touch with eachother anyways.

And with some swimmers with exams etc the quiet times could be used to their advantage. ...Just not as fun as might have been expected. Now if they took their TV's out of their rooms ala Sweetenham that would be torture!

Those working hard (or harder than normal) will also find quiet times nice to actually be 'quiet' as opposed to 'crazy-time-which-isn't-swimming' time which for some swimmers quiet time normally is, the term 'quiet' isn't in the volcabulary of many adolescents. For some swimmers, who are less experienced at training camp scenarios, a training camp is thought to be a giant sleepover with 80 of your friends...with some swimming between. Weening out the 'lets stay awake all night' folk is a good thing.

[sparky]

So, end of camp summary who thought what of the camp with the new regime in place, have heard some kids were sent home(bad behaviour) some sent home(unwell) and some just left. Did you all enjoy it and was it as bad as some people on here seemed to infere it would be.

[grumpyoldfart]

Thumbs up for my lad -he enjoyed it much more this time because he swam in the 8am /8pm shift and this year he went there in good health.More time for socialising this time around .
So im pleased as he was really dreading the whole experience -hopefull the improved fitness will carry him through to the nationals .
My lad told me that the Warrender swimmers in his age group weren't there this year -maybe lane 4 can shine some light on this one -were they ill ?

[lane4]

My lad told me that the Warrender swimmers in his age group weren't there this year -maybe lane 4 can shine some light on this one -were they ill ?I understand they were training in their home club environment.

[sparky]

Cheers
I also heard from joe that Zach Courtney has apparently packed it in -that's a real suprise as he was a top swimmer and had the right build -indeed i believe he used to swim for your club before he moved to Dunedin

Hope you will not be denying any knowledge of saying anything re this swimmer giving up should the subject crop up at all in the future.

[sparky]

Maybe, Grumpyoldfart, you should not come on and talk about other swimmers where the statements you are making are in your own words "quite possible its an untrue rumour which has been propagated by other swimmers". Maybe yo should just hold your tongue and wait and see what is really happening with these young swimmers and their swimming careers.

[sub24]

who thought what of the camp with the new regime in place, have heard some kids were sent home(bad behaviour) some sent home(unwell) and some just left
Please divulge gentlemen, hoping to know if I need to bring in the The Wolf

[sparky]

Please divulge gentlemen, hoping to know if I need to bring in the The Wolf

Could not put names on the page as this is only hearsay, do not have first hand knowledge of anything or anyone so would not like to speculate but my purpose of my post was more to find out what the kids thought of this years camp now that there is a whole new coaching set up in upper tier of Scottish Swimming.

[Linny]

Could not put names on the page as this is only hearsay, do not have first hand knowledge of anything or anyone so would not like to speculate but my purpose of my post was more to find out what the kids thought of this years camp now that there is a whole new coaching set up in upper tier of Scottish Swimming.If I wanted to know what swimmers thought of the Christmas Camp I wouldn't ask on here or all you will get is more hearsay that you refuse to expand on and I don't understand the rest of your post. Chris has gone and Doug (C) is in. What else has changed in upper tier of Scottish Swimming? ITC is a separate enterprise albeit it is at the NSA. It shouldn't have any impact on the conduct or content of the Christams Camp, that is Scottish Swimming's domain.

[grumpyoldfart]

You are quite right Sparky -so i'll offer you and the others on here my sincere applogy and remove said offending thread .I'm just telling you what my son was told from another lad in his age group who swims with him in the same club .

[HaggisBasher]

What else has changed in upper tier of Scottish Swimming?

where do we start?

[Linny]

where do we start?I dunno, I'm just an oik, you tell me!

[HaggisBasher]

I dunno, I'm just an oik, you tell me!


as far as i can see its a different job, in a different organisation, with a different remit based on a different philosophy; rather than just cm out dc in.

and if itc are now the main tenant in stirling uni's pool then maybe scottish swimming will find it difficult to secure water time for camps, just as scottish clubs are being turned away.