breaststroke help

[swimchick152]

I am not a good breaststroker at all!! :o My kick is too wide, i stop when i breathe, i don't glide forward enough....any tips? :confused:

[mad4it]

i aint gd at brs either, so i would be grateful for tips 2!

[Pete]

These are my ten main points to technique. Some will question things I am sure but it works for swimmers I coach.

1. Body position varies during different phases of the stroke. During the arm recovery and kick the body goes flat and arms stretch to streamline. During the pull the shoulders lift by arching the back.

2. The secret to good Breaststroke is the length of the stroke especially the kick. It is really important to be flexible in the hips to get the heels high and wide at the top of the kick.

3. The kick starts with legs straight, heels together. Knees bend, turn outward and heels separate. As the heels get higher the knees turn towards the bottom allowing the heels to go wider. The heels come up level and wide of the hips.

4. On the propulsive part of the kick the lower part of the leg sweeps back forming an almost circular movement. The power comes much more from the inside of the legs rather than the feet. The finish of the kick is with legs extended and together.

5. The pull starts from a fully stretched arm position with the shoulders also pushed forward. Hands should be in a "V" shape at or very near the surface, palms turned outward.

6. The press outward should be with arms still fully extended hands getting deeper in the water as they get wider. This is where the shoulders and head rise high out of the water.

7. When the hands are slightly wider than the shoulders the hands drop deeper and the elbows bend to about 90 degrees. The pull back is almost direct until just in front of the shoulders. Heels start to lift at this point.

8. The hands now sweep in fast to meet (with the shoulders still high) under the chin palms facing each other.

9. The arms recover near the surface with the hands starting to face the bottom of the pool as the arms stretch forwards. The kick backward takes place here. The shoulders drop down and the head staying still lowers in the water but not totally submerged. Stretch to "V" at full stretch.

10. The head stays stable always in a forward position throughout, moving with the shoulders the face does go into the water but the head should not totally submerge.
:)

[Serge]

then stop breathing!!!!

[ktcute]

but the head should not totally submerge

I'm a little suprised at this. Surely the air/water interface will create considerable drag if the head doesn't submerge? I don't see the advantage of the head not submerging...

[Conrad Cawley]

During the glide phase the head should be dropped so that the face is in the water looking downwards. It is not advisable for the whole head to go under as this will send you downwards instead of forwards. The duration of the glide alters depending on the length of the swim. As a rule of thumb: training glide 3 secs: racing 200m glide 2 secs: 100m glide 1 sec and 50m or lesss use an ovelapping stroke so that your arm pull starts just before you complete the leg kick. Hands over recovery is another option which I personally like but does not work with all swimmers. Try it or use it as a drill to improve your insweep.

[ktcute]

Thanks for that. Not sure if I quite get how the wave is helping me go faster when I am spending so much time going up and down if I have to worry about whether my head is fully submerged or not during recovery... but then I don't get the wave at all... can't really argue that it works however.

Something else I'm curious about:
The press outward should be with arms still fully extended hands getting deeper in the water as they get wider. This is where the shoulders and head rise high out of the water.

Now if the peak of the wave is during the pull when the arms are still nearly outstretched what happens when the arms meet under the body? I can't figure that out at all... Not saying its wrong... just bizarre.

[Pete]

What's this wave thing? Can't find it anywhere in the thread.
The shoulders come high so that you can utilise the muscles to get a strong pull. If the shoulders stay low there is little strength in the pull.

[ktcute]

As I understand the current widely practised form of breastroke which started to be used in the late 80's (I think), and practised by Adrain Moorhouse et al is called the wave.

Just because something isn't mentioned in the thread doesn't mean I can't mention it does it?

As for why the shoulder rise, actually I thought the shoulders rose to get over the "hump" in the stroke as fast as possible, reducing drag and eliminating as far as possible the slowest part of the stroke. My question was simply about where the shoulders are at there highest...

[swimusa]

There is the "wave" and the wave style of breaststroke. The "wave" mixes the over-arm action of fly and the breaststroke kick, used in breaststroke events. It was banned by FINA in 1996. There there is the wave style of breaststroke, which is that shoulder-rise action, like how Agnes Kovacs, or Amanda Beard swim breaststroke. That builds momentum with your glide, by creating a larger kick, and lower percentage of water lost during the pull. But, getting the right technique is hard (esp if you have been swimming 17+ years like some of us).

[ktcute]

ok, I'd never heard of the "wave" before. It sounds exactly what has just been made legal for masters swimming (butterfly) lately.

I'm glad somone else thinks its hard!

[Bazza]

No my understanding swimusa is that you are talking about a stroke where the upper body is very high and the elbows come out of the water, which is illegal? Is that right?

Surely you don't mean butterfly arms used to be legal in breaststroke events? I certainly have never seen anything of this sort!!

[ktcute]

No, but you can now use a breastroke leg kick with butterfly arms as I understand it in a butterfly race.

Its the same difference.

[rogant stard]

Originally posted by ktcute
No, but you can now use a breastroke leg kick with butterfly arms as I understand it in a butterfly race.

Not any more love. Unless you're a 'Master' I think - can't remember what they decided on that.

[Steve]

I think we're all a bit back to front here;

Butterfly originally evolved form breastroke early in the 20th century (1936 Olympics I believe) when certain swimmers discovered that recovering their arms over the water was faster than the more conventional arm pulls underneath the water surface. This was eventually made illegal in breastroke but was converted into a new stroke - butterfly - in 1952, and first swum at the Olympics in 1956.

Originally butterfly was hence swum with breastroke legs. Subsequently swimmers discovered they could swim faster still by adopting a dolphin kick and this was incorporated into the stroke as well, although breastroke legs remained legal until 1st May last year when they were banned. That is except for masters competitions, for which FINA made the following change to the FINA Masters Technical Rules: "A breaststroke kicking movement is permitted for butterfly." (FINA Rule MSW 3.10 )

[ktcute]

Thats what I meant. :)

[GettingFaster]

am I allowed to suggest a website to look at?

http://www.donalfagan.com/html/swim_videos.html contains some brilliant MPGs. Some are very large but it's sooooo impressive watching top-class swimmers under water in slow motion. Thing is, the breastrokers do tend to submerge completely, even if just for a short while. Pete, your views?
(BTW my breast stroke is seriously pants.)

[Pete]

Someone who knows me obviously eh GettingFaster? The videos are taking forever to download. Some swimmers do tend to submerge every stroke, more for 200 where the stroke is longer in the glide. What I call late-kickers also tend to do this. It does depend on the individual swimmer concerned but I dont advocate this in general Breaststroke technique. If it is effective for an individual I would stick with it. There will be people who disagree.

[swimusa]

Hi, my name is swimusa and I am a late-kicker