Greatest Olympian?

[Bazza]

Another thread to get everyone in the mood for the trials starting on Wednesday - who was the greatest Olympic swimmer?? I will only post individual achievements, as I think relays can be discounted due to the dependence on the rest of the team.

OK here are the nominees:

- Mark Spitz. Get the obvious one out the way!

1968, Bronze 100m free, Silver 100m fly
1972, Gold 100m free, Gold 200m free, Gold 100m fly, Gold 200m fly

- Aleksandr Popov:

1992, Gold 50m free, Gold 100m free
1996, Gold 50m free, Gold 100m free
2000, Silver 100m free

- Murray Rose:

1956, Gold 400m free, Gold 1500m free
1960, Gold 400m free, Silver 1500m free

- Roland Matthes:

1968, Gold 100m back, Gold 200m back
1972, Gold 100m back, Gold 200m back

- Matt Biondi:

1988, Gold 50m free, Gold 100m free, Silver 100m fly, Bronze 200m free

Tamas Darnyi:

1988, Gold 200m IM, Gold 400m IM
1992, Gold 200m IM, Gold 400m IM

- David Wilkie (need one Brit!)

1972, Silver 200m breast
1976, Gold 200m breast, Silver 100m breast

- Inge De Bruijn:

2000, Gold 50m free, Gold 100m free, Gold 100m fly

- Dawn Fraser:

1956, Gold 100m free, Silver 400m free
1960, Gold 100m free
1964, Gold 100m free

- Shane Gould (apparently she launched an unsuccessful comeback at the recent Aussie Olympic Trials!)

1972, Gold 200m free, Gold 400m free, Silver 800m free, Bronze 100m free

- Janet Evans:

1988, Gold 400m free, Gold 800m free, Gold 400m IM
1992, Gold 800m free, Silver 400m free

- Krisztina Egerszegi:

1988, Gold 200m back, Silver 100m back
1992, Gold 100m back, Gold 200m back, Gold 400m IM
1996, Gold 200m back, Bronze 400m IM

- Kristin Otto:

1988, Gold 50m free, Gold 100m free, Gold 100m fly

Well that's it, hopefully I haven't missed anyone or any details....

Oh, and the 'hard luck but thanks for trying award' goes to:

Shirley Babashoff:

1972, Silver 100m free, Silver 200m free
1976, Silver 200m free, Silver 400m free, Silver 800m free

Finally, I chose to make her ineligible, but I'll give her a mention:

- Michelle Smith:

1996, Gold 400m free, Gold 200m IM, Gold 400m IM, Bronze 200m fly

[chlorine_babe]

For me it has to be Popov medalling at three Olympics I know Egerszegi won the 200 back three Olypics in a row but Popov coming back for being stabbed does it for me.

[lane4]

If nobody else mentions it, sub24 will, so I better get in there and nominate Duke Kahanamoku.

In the 1912 Stockholm Games Duke's time in the 100 free heat (1:02.6) was more than 2 secs quicker than any other competitor. He won his 2nd round heat in 1:03.8, still the fastest. Due to a misunderstanding Duke and the 2 other Americans failed to show up for the semi-finals but holding the final without them seemed absurd so the 3 were allowed to take part in an extra heat 2 days later with the stipulation that to qualify for the final the winner would have to beat the time of William Longworth who had finished 3rd in the first heat in 1:06.2. If this happened the 2nd place swimmer would also qualify for the final. Not wanting to take any chances Duke equalled the world record with 1:02.4 allowing himself and the 2nd American into the final the next day. In the final, Duke took the time to look back and survey the field at the 50m mark. Noting that he had a comfortable lead, he slowed up and still won by 2 yards in 1:03.4.

Eight years later after the war at the Antwerp Games, Duke equalled his own world record of 1:01.4 in the semis and then set a new record of 1:00.4 in the final to celebrate his 30th birthday. However, Willaim Herald who came 4th claimed he was fouled by Norman Ross leading to Ross being DQ'd and the race ordered resum. Duke won the reswim by over 1 second.

In 1924 Johnny Weissmuller lined up for the 100 free final with Duke on one side of him and Duke's brother on the other side. Weissmuller was worried that the 2 Hawaiians planned to swim a team race against him but as they stood at the blocks Duke turned to him and said, "Johnny, good luck, the most important thing is to get the American flag up there 3 times, let's do it." And they did with Weissmuller winning from Duke and his brother.

Duke would go on to compete in 4 Olympic Games winning 3 golds and 2 silver. He later appeared in minor roles in 28 Hollywood films and played a major role introducing surfing around the world.

****************

Weissmuller himself should of course be added to the list having won 5 golds in 1924 and 1928 before gaining international fame as Tarzan.

Between 1912 and 1944 there were only 3 wolrd record holders in the 100 free, Duke (1912-1922), Weissmuller (1922-1934) and Peter Fick (1934-1944).

[Steve]

As for Shane Gould, it wasn't really a comeback, more of a publicity thing for getting adults into fitness, hence why she only swam the 50 fly - a non Olympic event. She didn't do bad though a 30.61; pretty damn good for a 47 year old and just outside the masters world record for the event.

http://www.swimming.org.au/news/news_item.cfm?ObjectID=14112&from=news

[matt]

For me it has to be Popov medalling at three Olympics I know Egerszegi won the 200 back three Olypics in a row but Popov coming back for being stabbed does it for me.

I think that's who I'll go for as well

[Dreama]

Looking at those results, egerszegi and frazer seem the greatest to me over 3 Olympics anyway, egerszegi might just edge it cos of her 400IM too and her backstroke world record that is just totally awesome!

[Bazza]

Thanks for the background lane4. However I chose to base this on individual OG performances, and Duke Kahanamoku got 2 golds and 1 silver, and Johnny Weissmuller won three golds. There were several other athletes who matched this performance, though maybe those guys deserved a mention (I had to leave a few of the mentioned swimmers out of the poll anyway as I was limited to 10 options, but I don't think any of those would have been chosen anyway).

Obviously one major limitation is that I have basically based this on medals and not taken other factors into consideration.

Even then it depends on personal opinion as to what makes a better achievement - 4 golds at one games like Spitz or longevity as shown by Egerszegi (who my vote went to) or Popov (who is winning).

Of course Popov and De Bruijn could add to their achievements this summer and it seems Phelps could do something special, so maybe it would be interesting to do another poll after Athens!

[Stevie_k]

Where is thorpe and phelps?


I have only heard of the first 2, so i think ill have to plump for spitz.

[Bully]

Amy Van Dyken would get my vote, not just for what she achieved but what she had to overcome to achieve it, proving once again we all have differing views on what, how and why.

[saturdaynighter]

Hi All
Egerszegi must have it for three reasons:
1. breadth of Olympic career
2. Diversity of strokes covered (compared with some)
3. Longevity of her records

Not sure if she's done anything since, but she must have been a phenomenal athlete in her day

[Bazza]

Where is thorpe and phelps?


I have only heard of the first 2, so i think ill have to plump for spitz.

Note this poll was made pre Athens. Post Athens I'm sure Thorpe and Phelps would have been considered for the shortlist.

- Ian Thorpe:

2000, Gold 400m free, Silver 200m free
2004, Gold 200m free, Gold 400m free, Bronze 100m free

- Michael Phelps:

2004, Gold 100m fly, 200m fly, 200m IM, 400m IM, Bronze 200m free


Phelps had the best individual performance at a single Olympics. Would be interesting to see the results of this poll as of now (almost four years on). I think if I did one after Beijing it may be a no contest!

[Stevie_k]

Crikey i didnt see that!

some peps are digging up some proper relic threads around here.

When this thread was made i would not have heard of thorpe or phelps either.

My Phelps book is good. It does hint that thorpe is a tart for dropping the IM from his schedule to avoid getting spangled by michael. Its a little dig. Great.

[Bazza]

That's true.

Journalists who clearly know little about swimming suggested that the 200m free in Athens which featured Thorpe vs Phelps was a contest to decide the best swimmer in the world. Thorpe won and they thought this meant he was better than Phelps. Of course Phelps swam it as his 5th event whereas it was one of Thorpe's specialities. They neglected to consider whether Thorpe could beat Phelps at IM, fly or backstroke. Of course Phelps has since bettered Thorpe's best time for the 200m free anyway!

[Linny]

Journalists who clearly know little about swimming suggested that the 200m free in Athens which featured Thorpe vs Phelps was a contest to decide the best swimmer in the world.Perhaps this was just to sell the story rather than ignorance.Thorpe won and they thought this meant he was better than Phelps.Again, we don't know what they thought perhaps they were just selling the story. Had Thorpe lost, I'm sure that the story would still have been about him because he was, and probably still is, better known and could sell more papers or views.They neglected to consider whether Thorpe could beat Phelps at IM, fly or backstroke. Of course Phelps has since bettered Thorpe's best time for the 200m free anyway!The majority of people don't care for form strokes, if they are interested in swimming at all they are only interested in who can swim fastest. I wouldn't expect to get detailed and accurate information about a specialist subject unless I was reading a specialist magazine, talking of which there is an excellent article on how computerised fluid dynamics software was used to design the Lzr Racer in February's Professional Engineering.

[selkie]

There were a lot of great swimmers who got hit hard by either the 1980 or 1984 boycotts.

I feel like I have to throw Vladmir Salnikov's name into the mix:

1980: gold in the 400M free, 4x200 FR and 1500M
1988: gold in the 1500M

He was the firts man to break 15:00 in the Moscow Olympics, and would have likely won gold in at least the 1500M if he had been allowed to compete in Los Angeles.

On the American side, Rowdy Gaines, Mary Meagher, and Tracy Caulkins all would have had serious medal hauls if they had been allowed to compete in Moscow. In 1980, Meagher's best 200M fly time that summer was something like 2+ seconds faster than the gold medal-winning time.

[Pete]

If your talking British it has to be Wilkie. Breaking the World Record by 3 seconds to win an Olympic Gold. The record held for years.