We ain't gonna go

[londoner62]

According to The Times, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4803-1091956,00.html Great Britain are not sending a team to the Europeans because of the proximity to the Olympics.

Paul

[swimmer]

:cool: i'll swim!!

[swimmer]

yeh!! we'll make me best team! :) with Kaci in the 400 free and 800 free aswell, i'll shotgun the 100/200 fly! Bootie, Chris and bazza can fight it out for the b/r...

[Kaci]

, i'll shotgun the 100/200 fly!

I don't think you need to shot gun it...your welcome to it!!!

[londoner62]

I'll have the 50's free and fly but I don't want the Medley!

[GettingFaster]

I'll volunteer to get the drinks in afterwards. :beer: :cheers:

[Steve]

We didn't go in 2002 either 'cos of the commies and IIRC only a few swimmers went in 2000 as well, so the Europeans are a bit of a wash out as far as we're concerned. Why they won't let people swim who aren't on the Olympic team is beyond me though. It would seem to be the perfect opportunity to give some up and comers more intternational experience.

More interesting was this aside at the bottom of the article:

Britain team sources say that up to 14 swimmers are preparing to appeal against exclusion from the Olympic team should Foster win his case. Among those are the first four home in the 100 metres freestyle relay, who could form a relay, and Keri Anne Payne, of Stockport, who a week after the trials raced six seconds faster over 800 metres freestyle in France: her 8mins 34.03sec was inside the Olympic qualifying time and would have placed her 12th on the world ranking list in 2003.

I really hope this isn't the case and we don't end up with endless appeals from people complaining about the selection policy - it starts to devalue the achievement of those who <i>actually</i> made it.

[Phil Tanner]

It would, however, save face - if the odd appeal is allowed Bill Sweetenham would (rightly) have stuck to his guns as far as he could but find himself eventually over-ruled by his employers, which let's not forget they are entitled to do. Happens to all of us once in a while, you just have to live with it.

Sending a handful of swimmers who have made the QTs but not at the precise meet specified will not undermine the fabric of the sport in the country, despite any spin to that effect.

I'm betting anyone who gets in via appeal will have that bit extra to prove and would swim all the faster as a result. Let's not forget we are talking about a tiny group of elite athletes seeking the opportunity to push themselves to the absolute limit to represent their country in one of the most physically demanding sports, not some bunch of wasters wanting a free holiday.

[lane4]

Sending a handful of swimmers who have made the QTs but not at the precise meet specified will not undermine the fabric of the sport in the country, despite any spin to that effect.

I'm betting anyone who gets in via appeal will have that bit extra to prove and would swim all the faster as a result. Let's not forget we are talking about a tiny group of elite athletes seeking the opportunity to push themselves to the absolute limit to represent their country in one of the most physically demanding sports, not some bunch of wasters wanting a free holiday.

At the Olympic Games, you know exactly when you're race is going to be, you know you have only ONE chance to win a medal. It does not matter if you could have swum faster a week later than the Olympics, or a week before, or if you had a minor shoulder injury a couple of months ago. You have to do it there and then, under the spotlight, with a billion people watching on TV and the biggest pressure you've ever faced.

With the exception of world ranked swimmers who were genuinely ill or injured and could not compete (of which there were none anyway), our Trials were the only chance to qualify for the Olympic Games. Everyone knew this long before. You had to step up and prove you could swim your best on that day at the Trials because if you can't do it in the comfortable surroundings of Sheffield (virtually everyone's favourite pool, staying in the same hotel you've always stayed in, eating at the same restaurants you've always eaten in, with your coach, family and friends close at hand and pleasant weather conditions); how on earth are you going to be able to do it in the biggest sporting event of all time, outdoors, in intense heat, staying in cramped village conditions without any home comforts or escaping the incredible pressure you wil be under!?

GB set qualifying times which were tough but times which if reproduced at the Games would only still give you a slim chance of making a final, nevermind winning a medal - for which you would have to swim much much faster. Studies have shown that the majority of swimmers perform the same time or slower at the Olympic Games than they did in their 'Trials' or season's best going into the meet. This is an inescapable fact for most competitors at every Olympic Games. Only the very best prepared and mentally tough will make it to the podium. And when it comes to the Olympics, the podium is the ONLY thing that the government, UK Sport, British Swimming and thus, Bill Sweetenham care about. In Bill's view, if you cannot make a 2003 world top 12 time at our Trials, you have ZERO chance of medalling at the Games. I have to say that on this matter, I must agree with him.

[lane4]

We didn't go in 2002 either 'cos of the commies and IIRC only a few swimmers went in 2000 as well, so the Europeans are a bit of a wash out as far as we're concerned. Why they won't let people swim who aren't on the Olympic team is beyond me though. It would seem to be the perfect opportunity to give some up and comers more intternational experience.

Indeed. It is a joke that we are not sending a team to the Europeans. On this matter I think that Bill has got it wrong.

[Phil Tanner]

Eloquently put. But why make an exception for any who happened to miss out through injury or illness, had there been any? They couldn't cut it on the day, so out they go, surely?

[Linny]

Studies have shown that the majority of swimmers perform the same time or slower at the Olympic Games than they did in their 'Trials' or season's best going into the meet. This is an inescapable fact for most competitors at every Olympic Games. Only the very best prepared and mentally tough will make it to the podium.
Why is that then - the findings of the studies I mean?
Perhaps there is too much focus on the "trials" or the qualifying time. Would it not be better to focus solely on the performance at the Olympics - especially for those swimmers who are in with a genuine chance of a medal - ie prequalifying to enable concentrated preparation without the interference of the trials?
With trials - only a swimmer who was so completely self assured that they would get in would be able to spend their swimming year working towards the real goal - perhaps someone like Ian Thorpe. ;)
I hope that our swimmers will produce their best times at the Olympic Games. I am sure that when/if they do you will tell us all that this is because they were the best prepared and mentally tough. Maybe that is true but I believe it will also be true that it will have been despite having to qualify in the way that they have rather than because of it.
Go on shoot me down in flames.

[DAK]

Why is that then - the findings of the studies I mean?
Perhaps there is too much focus on the "trials" or the qualifying time. Would it not be better to focus solely on the performance at the Olympics - especially for those swimmers who are in with a genuine chance of a medal - ie prequalifying to enable concentrated preparation without the interference of the trials?
With trials - only a swimmer who was so completely self assured that they would get in would be able to spend their swimming year working towards the real goal - perhaps someone like Ian Thorpe. ;)
I hope that our swimmers will produce their best times at the Olympic Games. I am sure that when/if they do you will tell us all that this is because they were the best prepared and mentally tough. Maybe that is true but I believe it will also be true that it will have been despite having to qualify in the way that they have rather than because of it.
Go on shoot me down in flames.

Does anyone think that some swimmers were saving there best for the Olympics, ie. not shaved, tapered etc? Or was everyone fully prepared?

[chris_lamb]

Indeed. It is a joke that we are not sending a team to the Europeans. On this matter I think that Bill has got it wrong.

Do you know why no team is being sent? You cannot say the decision[1] is wrong without knowing the reasons behind the decision.


[1] probably not the decision purely of one man...

[Bootie]

Whilst it would be nice to see GB represented at the European Champs, just imagine the furore that would ensue should any swimmer not already going to the Olympics, swim a qualifying time, the appeals made in order to get on that plane to Athens would be flying in. The line must be drawn and underlined somewhere.

[Bazza]

Maybe that is the reason, maybe it is cost, maybe it is because Bill is completely focussed on Athens so doesn't care about the Europeans or anyone who would go there?

I asked Darren Mew on Tuesday if he was going to Madrid and he said he was still toying with the idea but probably not. Looks like a decision has been made for him!

Lynn I agree with your point about having so much focus on the trials, but overall I disagree. I back Bill to know what he's doing, to win us medals in Athens and to further raise the profile of British Swimming.

Four years ago we had softer selection criteria and we got it all wrong. Only now is it evident exactly how soft we were, and nobody wants a repeat of hardly any finalists, Sue Rolph's outburst, etc.

[Bootie]

You compare selection policy with Athletics from a few years ago. Various alleged top athletes decided not to compete in the Olympic selection trials as they knew best and " needed to prepare for their events" as they believed they should, they were preselected and didn't need to prove themselves.
The reality was that even though in their own opinions their preparation was perfect, not one of them performed at the Olympics, winning absolutely nothing.
I think "Bill" has the criteria spot on!

[Phil Tanner]

One thing that puzzles me is why they didn't simply add a sub-clause to the selection policy saying "no appeals in any circumstances". There'd be none of this controversy now. I suppose people might have appealed against the sub-clause etc etc

[Dreama]

Lol this little piece of info makes me laugh at a certain swimmer who often stretches the truth and reckons he is going to some trials for the Europeans...do you know who I mean boggie?

[lane4]

Do you know why no team is being sent?

I cannot think of a logical reason why we are not sending a team and thus I can say it is wrong if that is my opinion.

[Katie]

I heard that the team are training in Italy for 5 weeks and competing in the Mare Nostrum as part of their preparation. Perhaps it is felt that the Europeans would be disruptive to their training, and that should they compete in this as well as the Mare Nostrum (which is perhaps better situated in terms of time) they may be over-competing? I know the number of competitions per year is a big issue with British Swimming, so maybe this has something to do with it.

In response to the question that some of our swimmers were perhaps saving their best for the Games, I think the QTs were so tough this was simply not an option for most of them... but we can hope that the ones who made the team were holding something back!!! :)

[DAK]

In response to the question that some of our swimmers were perhaps saving their best for the Games, I think the QTs were so tough this was simply not an option for most of them... but we can hope that the ones who made the team were holding something back!!! :)

I agree that not many could afford to hold anything back but I just got a feeling that some of the top swimmers maybe didn't fully rest for the event and may be looking to produce something a good bit faster in Athens....I hope so anyway ;) !

[ruthcp]

I'll volunteer to get the drinks in afterwards. :beer: :cheers:

And I volunteer to drink them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GettingFaster]

And I volunteer to drink them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only after you've entered (and swum!) the 800 free.