SCASA Youth Champs

[chris_lamb]

Anyone going to be enjoying the swimming at Crystal Palace this weekend?

Do come and say hello if you are there - I'll be running around madly trying to get the electronics working tomorrow, and taking photos all weekend :)



BTW - if you are swimming, remember that events between 301 and 328 are on Monday - don't read the cards too carefully!

[Curly]

Chris

Do you know if there is a good entry for this weekend? I seem to remember that it was a bit undersubscribed previously - particularly by the older swimmers - and there were some rather empty finals which is always a shame.

[chris_lamb]

Do you know if there is a good entry for this weekend? I seem to remember that it was a bit undersubscribed previously - particularly by the older swimmers - and there were some rather empty finals which is always a shame.

Sorry, no idea.

[Clem1]

is it me or isnt every 50 m pool the same length.
Everyone other than me seems to hate CP, so i always swim better there cos im already ahead by the time i stand behind the blocks.

[Katie]

I wonder if they will both finals for 18+ this year? Considering last year there was only 1 person in one of the finals!

[chris_lamb]

I wonder if they will both finals for 18+ this year? Considering last year there was only 1 person in one of the finals!

Everything is pretty much exactly the same as last year - only the order of some events changed.

[Top10ranking]

im going there to hopefully get my national time

[stevenewman1]

Look out for our top swimmer Karl Batorski. At just 16 he has recently gone 53 secs in 100m free and 59 secs in 100m fly (both in 25m pools). I wont be going until mid June when its the bagcats attending - best of luck to everyone over the weekend.

[swimmer]

i'll be there tomorrow (sunday)

[Phil Tanner]

Just got back, everything seemed to go very smoothly, thanks Chris L. and team.

If anyone wants a snapshot of how tough girls' 14/15 NQTs are for the younger half of the age group this year - if I read the results correctly, only one 14-year-old made the time for the 200 free. This is in a district championship within a month of the entry deadline in what I believe is considered a "fast" pool. 200 IM was only marginally better.

[swimmer]

crikey! What time did the the finals session start and finish phil?

[Phil Tanner]

Sorry, this is as of the heats. I was forgetting that finallists may improve their times, of course. But by way of an example, I believe daughter was fourth-fastest 14-yo in the 200 free, 11th or 12th 14/15 overall (i.e. just outside reserves for final), 2-second PB but still needs another two seconds for the NQT.

[Top10ranking]

it was the same for the boys 15/16 100back i came second in the (89) and did not get the NQT :(

[Katie]

I thought they went v smoothly and were run well. It is definitely a pity about the state of the 18+ age group though. For the girls, not one full final! The 100 back final had only 3 of us in, which is a shame. I remember when Southerns used to be full of atmosphere... everyone still tries hard but it's just not how it used to be back in the good old days... :D :)

[Top10ranking]

I thought they went v smoothly and were run well. It is definitely a pity about the state of the 18+ age group though. For the girls, not one full final! The 100 back final had only 3 of us in, which is a shame. I remember when Southerns used to be full of atmosphere... everyone still tries hard but it's just not how it used to be back in the good old days... :D :)


are you going on the monday?

[Katie]

Oui oui I have entered all 3 days. Yey! 3 days of immense atmosphere at Crystal Palace! What better way to spend your bank holiday weekend? (Nice to meet you Phil, by the way!)

[Top10ranking]

Oui oui I have entered all 3 days. Yey! 3 days of immense atmosphere at Crystal Palace! What better way to spend your bank holiday weekend?

lucky you :rolleyes:
i get tomorrow off to do some coursework :p
hoping to get my 200backstroke on monday

[Bazza]

I remember when Southerns used to be full of atmosphere... everyone still tries hard but it's just not how it used to be back in the good old days... :D :)

That's funny, I don't ever remember Southerns having a good atmosphere, or any meet at Crystal Palace for that matter! Also don't consider it a fast pool Phil, though that's just one persons opinion.

[Phil Tanner]

Also don't consider it a fast pool Phil, though that's just one persons opinion.

Dunno, daughter always says she likes it once she's actually in the water. Surroundings are as depressing as ever. I probably couldn't swim a width! :)

Incidentally, work has started on the athletics stadium. They have ripped up the track.

But you still can't go there and not think that transport links apart, it's a fantastic site for a world-class sports centre. We had one and we blew it through neglect, it's a national disgrace. (So build the centre and let that drive the transport links.)

Stuck in work today and eagerly looking forward to the journey tomorrow...

[Katie]

Your daughter did a great 200 fly today Phil, she has a very nice stroke! I have never found the Youth Champs v atmospheric Bazza, but the Age Groups used to be SO exciting!! But the surroundings are incredibly grey, and poolside was FREEZING, especially yesterday. The skins were really good fun today, and I think I spotted Chris Lamb... though can't be sure!!! I think it isn't a bad pool, but lots of people have done pretty badly this weekend, probably because it's so uninspiring to be around!! :)

[Bazza]

Yeah, for many people districts is one of the big meets of the year but I never enjoyed it personally, rather dreaded it. Katie I can't even say I remember age groups being great, but maybe I never went to them, I can't actually remember!

Phil you're spot on about one place having so much potential for all the great facilities and no doubt once upon a time it was. Like you say we blew it. A big if, but should we get the Games in 2012 I just hope we make a good job of it and world class facilities remain for the benefit of everyone for years to come.

[swimmer]

heya, matt/chris/kaci I met gail yesterday, she was really nice! I swam next to her in the 200fly final, she had a 100br final, 200fly final and skins all in one session!!! How come you guys didnt go to southerns? We sat next to the guernsey/Jersey ppl. Yeh katies right, the poolside was FREEZING! i was wearing a jumper and still had goose-bumps! lol! i came 3rd in 200fly but with a rubbish time, went 2 secs faster than my heat in the final tho, but still 3 secs over my LC pb (0.24 away from silver - how annoying!

well done to everyone, esp katie who won the skins for a 2nd year running, with yet another pb of 27.30 on the final 50!!! I dont mind the CP pool when I get in there as it was nice and cold this weekend - instead of the usual BOILING! But the blocks need replacing, becuase esp lanes 8 and 5 the covering has worn away on the edge.

[mad4it]

I wonder if they will both finals for 18+ this year? Considering last year there was only 1 person in one of the finals!

Sorry this is completely off the topic but i was at a meet this weekend and i was swimming in the 16+ age group and in my 100fly and 100back finals there were only 3 and 4 of us respectively. :( it just felt like such a joke!!


well done to everyone, esp katie who won the skins for a 2nd year running, with yet another pb of 27.30 on the final 50!!!

oh and in the skins on sunday night, the two girls were left for the last round and it was close at the 25, but no-one would have predicted a....dead-heat!!27.77! The atmosphere was terrific..however once it died down the girls were told they had to do it again!! :rolleyes: :D

[swimmer]

thanks for putting the results up so quickly chris_lamb, but I think some of the results are incorrect - eg the girls 14/15 years 200fly on sunday session 5, some ppl I know said they went 2.35 and 2.38 but it has them down as going 2.44 and 2.45???????

[stevenewman1]

Just echo Swimmer immediatedly above. Thanks for putting the results up so quick Chris - our Karl came 1st in the 15\16yr old 200IM and is already on our website.

Steve

[ruthcp]

Well done swimmer!!! Hope you are happy with your medal - more to come no doubt! :king:

[chris_lamb]

thanks for putting the results up so quickly chris_lamb, but I think some of the results are incorrect - eg the girls 14/15 years 200fly on sunday session 5, some ppl I know said they went 2.35 and 2.38 but it has them down as going 2.44 and 2.45???????

I'll check the results - I know there were some problems on Sunday afternoon...

[Phil Tanner]

Thanks on daughter's behalf for the compliment, Katy. She's dead chuffed to have been noticed by one of the stars of the meet, seriously. It was the usual "when she's good, she's very good, when she's bad it's atrocious". We stayed hours longer than we need have for the 200 back final, but she had cunningly changed into her Slowskin.

[Phil Tanner]

spot on about one place having so much potential for all the great facilities and no doubt once upon a time it was.

I may have posted this last year - the day the latest Harry Potter came out we were up absurdly early on a Southern Counties day and were pretty well the first people on the site. Just us and a couple of dog-walkers. On a perfect summer morning the scope of the site just made your hair stand on end. You could imagine it inspiring fantastic performances, if only it had been maintained.

[swimmer]

Well done swimmer!!! Hope you are happy with your medal - more to come no doubt! :king:


thank you :):) yes i'm very happy - it has pride of place in my room! hehe! :)

[Katie]

Thanks on daughter's behalf for the compliment, Katy. She's dead chuffed to have been noticed by one of the stars of the meet, seriously. It was the usual "when she's good, she's very good, when she's bad it's atrocious". We stayed hours longer than we need have for the 200 back final, but she had cunningly changed into her Slowskin.
I'm sure it wasn't that bad, it was the end of a (very) long weekend for all! I was very entertained by the Reading swimmers all weekend, particularly their betting on lanes during heats there were no other Reading swimmers in!!! You'd suddenly hear "GO LANE 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" followed by "GO LANE 2!!!". Funny if deafening :D. I'm starting to regret my comeback to backstroke: although I enjoy it, my legs are dead!!! :)

[chris_lamb]

Your daughter did a great 200 fly today Phil, she has a very nice stroke! I have never found the Youth Champs v atmospheric Bazza, but the Age Groups used to be SO exciting!! But the surroundings are incredibly grey, and poolside was FREEZING, especially yesterday.

Sitting at the turn end on lanes 7/8 yesturday afternoon I was really cold, I hate to think what it must have been like for the swimmers. It didn't help that my feet were completely soaked after paddling around at the start end in the morning!

[chris_lamb]

A big if, but should we get the Games in 2012 I just hope we make a good job of it and world class facilities remain for the benefit of everyone for years to come.

The government has "promised" that London will get the permanent pool anyway, regardless of the outcome of the bid. This would be a great facility, comparably to sheffield, but with a 50m training pool below :)

[Phil Tanner]

Sitting at the turn end on lanes 7/8 yesturday afternoon I was really cold

I kept my fleece on all day in the gallery, but I'd honestly prefer it that way round as a spectator.

Incidentally, anyone going to the No Frills meet at Aldershot on Saturday who hasn't been before - if it's the usual temperature, it's hotter for spectators there (the seats are poolside benches) than any other pool I know.

And I also gather from a colleague who lives near Aldershot that speed checks in the area are rigorous and in the hands of the military police.

[chris_lamb]

And I also gather from a colleague who lives near Aldershot that speed checks in the area are rigorous and in the hands of the military police.

And be careful to park properly - they do remove vehicles causing an obstruction.

[Kaci]

Chris your like a walking/ talking sign post..

[Top10ranking]

i came 7th in the 15/16 age group for the 200back :) second in the (89) but needed 2.16.94 and i got 2.18.00

[swimmer]

yep i'm going to the no frills meet, i'm only in the eve session though so anyone got advice on where to park? (as the pool car park is tiny!!) Because i'm driving myself probably so I cant get dropped off and I dont want to walk miles to the pool!!

[Phil Tanner]

It's not exactly tiny, but unless you are early I'd be tempted to use the car park at the top of the driveway and walk down, it's maybe five minutes' walk and you can see the pool. Or maybe the tennis centre car park half-way down the drive - is that for general use? I think there might be some kind of overspill round the back of the pool as well.

[swimmer]

okay thanks i'll do that :) does anyone know what time the eve session warm up is?? All thats on the cards is post cards by 6.05pm

[westie]

Fareham didnt have many people competing but our Relay team did really well. They won the Mens 4x200 Freestyle,placed 2nd in the 4x100m Freestyle team in a club best time of 3.39.60, 5 seconds faster then they went at Nationals 2003. I guess that's not bad!!

[interested parent]

I thought Peter Hall from Fareham also swam very well, in particular in the 200 back stroke.

My son said it was so cold on Monday that when he stood on the blocks he was shaking so much with the cold that he was warned about moving on the start.

[Top10ranking]

I thought Peter Hall from Fareham also swam very well, in particular in the 200 back stroke.


what age group is he?

[ruthcp]

what age group is he?

He's an 88, though August birthday, so might swim as a 15 for Nationals!!

[Top10ranking]

He's an 88, though August birthday, so might swim as a 15 for Nationals!!

what time did he do?

[swimmer]

take a look for yourself at http://www.southernswimming.org

[swimmer]

chris_lamb are you going to put the photos from the weekend on the site? (please do!!) :) although we had our presentation STRAIGHT after we got out from the final - so I think mine will be a little.... er... interesting :(!

[ruthcp]

what time did he do?

You can check all of them out on the SCASA website - you're there too!!
Mark Harrington (16) won the final in 2.11, Peter Hall did 2.13

[chris_lamb]

chris_lamb are you going to put the photos from the weekend on the site? (please do!!) :) although we had our presentation STRAIGHT after we got out from the final - so I think mine will be a little.... er... interesting :(!

I will do - just got to find some time to crop, resize and check them all first.

[swimmer]

kool!:) thank you!!

[Katie]

mmmm i'm sure the one after the skins will be absolutely beautiful. Katie the human tomato. Fit. :D

[GettingFaster]

mmmm i'm sure the one after the skins will be absolutely beautiful. Katie the human tomato. Fit. :D
I can't wait to see that one, with a description like that who could resist.

[Graham Wardell]

This was my first Southern Counties in 12 years (with my new club!!!). Yes it was cold, and yes it was disappointing to see such a low entry in the 17/18+ years. However, I thought the meet had some very positive aspects. While I think most clubs were in heavy training and therefore times weren't too quick, there were some great races. Regarding the lack of atmosphere, it is up to us to generate our own atmosphere. We need to be louder in our support for our swimmers!

There are a few proposed changes for next year such as instead of having age group finals, have an a,b and c final (like the US meets). This will give the top 24 swimmers the opportunity to race again irrespective of age. Age group results will be determined by final places where appropriate (a taking preference over b finals, and b over c), or from heat swims if needed.

What do you think? You need to get your clubs to give feedback to Liz Hartley

[chris_lamb]

What do you think? You need to get your clubs to give feedback to Liz Hartley

A, B and C finals could be interesting - are three finals necessary though? Would it be better with just one or two?

On the feedback issue - remember that decision about how things will run post-regionalisation are starting to be made now. This will include things like the structure, timing, location, format, etc. of the regional championships. Make sure you let your county representatives know how you want things to work. Decision made in the next year will affect how swimming is run in the regions for many years to come...

[Bazza]

Well Chris there were three finals this year were there not? Maybe it could be 3 for 50s and 100s and 2 for 200s or something like that? (Assuming fewer entries in the 200s). I have always liked the format the UC use actually.

Peter Hall is an 87 I believe (according to the Hants website), and was one of a group from Fareham who swam very well at the counties recently.

[chris_lamb]

Well Chris there were three finals this year were there not? Maybe it could be 3 for 50s and 100s and 2 for 200s or something like that? (Assuming fewer entries in the 200s). I have always liked the format the UC use actually.

UC?

[Bazza]

Hmm, that should say US. Sorry!

[chris_lamb]

Hmm, that should say US. Sorry!

How do the US do it?

[lane4]

How do the US do it?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Linny]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

[croberts]

How do the US do it?

Its different everywhere. But I guess the equivalent of a Southern Counties championship is the Zone Championship. Our zone championships have either 4 or 5 age groups (10/Under,11-12,13-14, and either 15-18 or 15-16 and 17-18). The age groups never swim together....11-12 have their own prelims and then their own final. Usually at zones there is only one final for each age group. And 10/Under swims timed finals in the afternoon. However, most Local Swimming Committees (I guess the equivalent of say Surreys) have multiple finals (either 2 or 3) for most age groups at their champs. But again the age groups are always separate in prelims and finals. Plus, instead of 15/16, 17/18 and 19+, they usually don't separate into age groups at that level and just have a "Senior" Championships. I know its a lot and I probably didn't explain it well but thats how it tends to work

[Bazza]

Yeah I was just referring to the fact that most meets seem to have A and B finals (maybe a C final also). This is fine in senior events, but could also work just as well in an age group meet, with no need to separate into each age group. Just like Graham explained!!

Gives lots of swimmers the chance to have finals, and will probably make them more competitive and exciting, plus puts more emphasis on the heats for swimmers who can easily make an age group final but not necessarily the top 8 in the whole event across all ages.

[GettingFaster]

Gives lots of swimmers the chance to have finals, and will probably make them more competitive and exciting, plus puts more emphasis on the heats for swimmers who can easily make an age group final but not necessarily the top 8 in the whole event across all ages.
But bearing in mind the limits on pool time for competitions there would have to be fewer competitors. So would you, and other swimmers, be happy to (a) pay more for your entry, or (b) have more stringent qualifying times and qualify for fewer races? There's always a down-side.

[Steve]

But bearing in mind the limits on pool time for competitions there would have to be fewer competitors. So would you, and other swimmers, be happy to (a) pay more for your entry, or (b) have more stringent qualifying times and qualify for fewer races? There's always a down-side.
But would there be more finals? The way I read it, the A B and C finals would replace the 14 years, 15/16 years and 17/18 years finals (or whatever the age groups were) so you end up with the same number of races.

[Top10ranking]

But would there be more finals? The way I read it, the A B and C finals would replace the 14 years, 15/16 years and 17/18 years finals (or whatever the age groups were) so you end up with the same number of races.

yes but it wouldn't be fixed so there wouldn't be 8 17/18 year olds etc. it would be the fastest 8 then the next fastest. so at southerns this year i would have been in the B final for the 100back against a 17 year old.

[Phil Tanner]

It might be a runner. At the moment you quite often see big gulfs in heat times between the central lanes and the outside lanes and age group finals, particularly if reserves get called up, which must be a disincentive to outsiders to stay and swim the final. Monday p.m. they were naming four reserves for finals to make sure eight swam.

The thing I'd like to see is finals within sessions. It's all well and good having third sessions finals-only at Sheffield, where most swimmers stay walking distance from the pool and there is ample scope for resting up, but it's not possible at CP.

[Bazza]

Good point, alot of people drive to CP and back each day and sometimes live over 100 miles away. If you don't make a final it usually means get on the road home rather than hanging around all afternoon on the off chance.

[swimmer]

humm yes but 2 x 200 fly plus any other events within the same session, is NOT an attractive prospect. plus it might mean even smaller numbers being accepted into each event to ensure session legnths do not exceed the ASA limits. And I would NEVER pull out of a final just because my time was a lot slower than the centre lanes.

[Bazza]

plus it might mean even smaller numbers being accepted into each event to ensure session legnths do not exceed the ASA limits

I don't see how - would still be the same number of races and sessions, just rearranged to be 3 sessions of heats and finals, rather than 2 sessions of just heats and one session of just finals.

[swimmer]

ohh yeh I see now. still, I don't mind the finals session much, in southerns I was the only one left from my team - literally just me, was tired and stuff but still went 2 secs faster than my heat time. I personally don't have any problem whatsoever with the current set-up.

[Phil Tanner]

And I would NEVER pull out of a final just because my time was a lot slower than the centre lanes.

Snag is, if you have to be up before six a.m. to get back for the next morning's warm-up you might be trading the swim for two or three hours' sleep, without which you will under-perform the next day, etc etc

[swimmer]

which I have to do, but if I get into a final, i swim it. The southerns don't finish that late anyway!! All the finals were done and out of the way before 6pm and we were in the car at about 6.15pm!!

[Katie]

Yes but I suppose it's easier for us Swimmer, as it only takes us 45 minutes or an hour to get there. If you're travelling for a couple of hours (having decided not to brave 2 night's stay in the Flake) each day, you will want all the sleep you can get and so I can see that people may pull out for this reason.

[mad4it]

Surely there is a solution here....sleep in the car!
I would have to totally agree with swimmer, i would never ever pull out of a final even if i was in an outside lane (which i normally am! ;) ) because surely then what is the point in swimming just because you aren't going to win? Putting all the hard work and training to waste, you never know you might make that qual. time or even a PB. Something (happiness) which is far more important than a few hours sleep which you can get in the car if you take a sleeping bag and pillow! :)

[Phil Tanner]

Yes, daughter often does that. Funnily enough, we were at a meet recently (not Crystal Palace) and while she was having a nap in the back, with her mum reading in the front, a policeman checking the car park (most welcome) tapped on the window of the next car along, woke the bloke sleeping in it and when he wound the window down, told him he was committing an offence.

I assume this refers to being asleep in a car in a public place and not anything else he might have been doing... :)

[Taxiandbank]

Having just joined this forum (and being fairly computer illiterate) I'm not sure how all this works. BUT this is my first year of "experiencing" the SCASA's having been to the Midlands previously. This last Sunday ranks as one of the most depressing meets I have attended. The "music" was funerial the announcements sounded like the results from the local village show (apologies to Mrs Hartley's jam which was delicious!) and the 1500 m was witnessed by a gallery who were obviously not aware that 3 swimmers finishing within 1.01 secs of each other is not an everyday occurance. The lack of race commentary is a major contribution to the lack of atmosphere at the SCASA's. I know that I have been spoilt in the past by enjoying the services of Terry Ward at the Midlands but I feel that a commentary is expected at District events these days. :rolleyes:

[Phil Tanner]

But is there a position at Crystal Palace from which a commentator would be able to follow a race? The music was better at the previous round than the usual war-movie stuff - I defy anyone to keep their feet still to "Sweet Home Alabama", even on that tinny PA.