Should the GB have sent a team? [Archive]

DAK

13-05-2004, 10:58 AM

It has been touched on in other threads so here we go...should the GB have sent a team, full squad, development/youth squad?

My opinion, these champs are irrelevant when compared to Athens therefore the top squad should not be there. There is a case for sending a development squad but I think there are plenty of meets to satisfy this type of squad so again no.

What dya reckon?

Fastest

13-05-2004, 11:33 AM

I reckon they should have sent some swimmers, particularly those who just missed qualifying for the Olympics and are too old for the European Juniors, namely the first four in the men's 100 freestyle, maybe David Davies in the 400m, can't think of any others off the top of my head!

:) :)

lane4

13-05-2004, 01:00 PM

Yes! We should be at this meet!

lane4

13-05-2004, 01:02 PM

There is a case for sending a development squad but I think there are plenty of meets to satisfy this type of squad so again no.
So which are these "plenty of meets" that this squad are being satisfied at? Please can you list them for the uninformed among us?

Kaci

13-05-2004, 02:10 PM

I heard they were all going to the barracuda open but that could just be rumours....

EssBee

13-05-2004, 05:30 PM

I heard they were all going to the barracuda open but that could just be rumours....

Kaci

Funny how rumours spread... (BTW, will you be here?)

EssBee
:wave:

Kaci

13-05-2004, 05:35 PM

Not quite sure, hopefully. My last hand in date is the 25th May so hopefully I will be back for 28th. I would like to be there to cheer everyone on, just have to keep my fingers crossed.

Dreama

13-05-2004, 09:08 PM

surely if swimemrs are now in Olympic training programme mode, breaking off to do this meet would not be a good idea, unless theeir programmes require some competitions to be included?

londoner62

13-05-2004, 09:15 PM

I think we should have sent the top 2 for each event that did not qualify for the Olympiad and entered the relays.

Paul

lane4

13-05-2004, 10:37 PM

I think we should have sent the top 2 for each event that did not qualify for the Olympiad and entered the relays.
Paul
The squads doing relays in Athens could have gone to Madrid to gain immense benefit from practicing these swims among high class opposition. A lot could have been learnt from these relay swims regarding best order to swim, relay takeovers, opposition tactics etc etc.

In fact I remember a while back Bill saying we would take the relays to Madrid so what happened to change this I don't know? Imagine we miss a relay medal in Athens by a few hundredths or tenths - if we had done them in Madrid we could have gained something that would have helped make the team that extra little bit faster in Athens.

DAK

14-05-2004, 07:19 AM

So which are these "plenty of meets" that this squad are being satisfied at? Please can you list them for the uninformed among us?

What with the European Juniors and British Nationals coming up in the not too distant future I would have thought that the Juniors and people who nearly made it could be preparing for these. The Junior squad are also just back from swimming in Australia.

Why bother sending a team of people who nearly made it or juniors to this when there are already things for them to aim for? Sounds like a waste of money to me :) .

There is a case for sending the relay teams and they may well have benefited from the experience but the creases should have long been ironed out for changeovers etc before the Olympics...in fact there is an argument to say that they should already be experts at this before they even qualified ;) ! Although they could well learn from tactics.

chris_lamb

14-05-2004, 07:45 AM

Imagine we miss a relay medal in Athens by a few hundredths or tenths - if we had done them in Madrid we could have gained something that would have helped make the team that extra little bit faster in Athens.

Or it could have made no difference at all.

lane4

14-05-2004, 07:57 AM

Or it could have made no difference at all.
True but should we be taking that chance? Bill tells swimmers to leave nothing to chance and not to live in hope that it will be alright on the day. I cannot think of any harm that can come from using the relays at the Europeans as an opportunity to practice for Athens. If there is a chance doing so would help Olympic preparation (and clearly such a chance does exist) then surely we should taking that chance and using it as an opportunity to improve. It's not like our swimmers do relays every week to prepare at home (Kidd and Lee in the States excepted)!

lane4

14-05-2004, 08:05 AM

What with the European Juniors and British Nationals coming up in the not too distant future I would have thought that the Juniors and people who nearly made it could be preparing for these. The Junior squad are also just back from swimming in Australia.

Why bother sending a team of people who nearly made it or juniors to this when there are already things for them to aim for?
Euro Juniors just covers a 2 year age band and thus that is fair enough for those in that band. However, there are plenty other swimmers outwith that band who just missed the team and to suggest attending the ASA Nationals in Manchester (I presume that's the one you mean as we've had the British Nationals) is an adequate replacement for the experience and prestige they could have gained from the European LC is outrageous. They would be most likely attending the Nationals anyway, as they do every year. You said there were "plenty of meets", yet you can only name the Nationals.

DAK

14-05-2004, 08:15 AM

However, there are plenty other swimmers outwith that band who just missed the team and to suggest attending the ASA Nationals in Manchester (I presume that's the one you mean as we've had the British Nationals) is an adequate replacement for the experience and prestige they could have gained from the European LC is outrageous.

"Outrageous" is a tad strong. There is indeed the ASA Nationals which would be an aim for these swimmers who were not good enough to make the Olympics. Is there any point in spending the money in sending a 2nd/3rd string to the Europeans for experience? It makes a mockery of the European Champs for a start.

There are plenty of other meets to choose from locally with a view to peaking at the ASA Nationals and trying to prove a point there. Also the British SC Champs at the end of the summer where people can try and qualify for the World SC Champs. Maybe these nearly men and women should focus on these meets instead of swimming in a GB 2nd/3rd string.

lane4

14-05-2004, 08:42 AM

"Outrageous" is a tad strong. There is indeed the ASA Nationals which would be an aim for these swimmers who were not good enough to make the Olympics. Is there any point in spending the money in sending a 2nd/3rd string to the Europeans for experience? It makes a mockery of the European Champs for a start.

There are plenty of other meets to choose from locally with a view to peaking at the ASA Nationals and trying to prove a point there. Also the British SC Champs at the end of the summer where people can try and qualify for the World SC Champs. Maybe these nearly men and women should focus on these meets instead of swimming in a GB 2nd/3rd string.
I don't think the selection policy for the World SC team is out yet so it's hard to focus on that.

Selection policy is not out yet either but we will be sending a 4th or 5th string to European SC this year and have sent 2nd/3rd strings to it the past few years - for experience - so a precedent has been set and thus it could be argued to do likewise at Euro LC - which after all is a LONG COURSE meet!

DAK

14-05-2004, 01:48 PM

I don't think the selection policy for the World SC team is out yet so it's hard to focus on that.

I think anyone worth their salt will know what their aims are for the SC champs and will be aiming to do a particular time already, this may or may not be good enough to qualify for the World SC but it is something important to aim for none the less.

Selection policy is not out yet either but we will be sending a 4th or 5th string to European SC this year and have sent 2nd/3rd strings to it the past few years - for experience - so a precedent has been set and thus it could be argued to do likewise at Euro LC - which after all is a LONG COURSE meet!

Whether a precedent has been set or not does not make something right and imo it is not right to send a 2nd string to the Euro LC or a 5th string to the Euro SC. It makes a mockery of these champs, I understand that swimmers may enjoy the experience but coming 22nd in a weak European Champs doesn't help too many people.

lane4

14-05-2004, 02:41 PM

It makes a mockery of these champs, I understand that swimmers may enjoy the experience but coming 22nd in a weak European Champs doesn't help too many people.I don't think the likes of Liam Tancock, Mark Lewis, Matt Bowe, Keri-Anne Payne, Rebecca Adlington, Stephanie Proud, Adam Whitehead or Rachel Genner would have come 22nd at these Championships. These are not your average run of the mill Joe Swimmer!

Just ask Neville's Polish - he'll tell you! ;)

swimbuoy

14-05-2004, 03:11 PM

In my opinion Bill should have sent the whole of the Olympic squad to this Meet, with any remaining places going to juniors who were of a high enough standard.

Surely it would have been an ideal test of their new found toughness??
They could have flown in the day before, trained during the meet, swam (in an outdoor pool), competed against some tough European competition & flown straight home. Hell Bill, they could've slept on a bed of nails if that wasnt enough ;)

speedoboy

14-05-2004, 05:16 PM

Katie

14-05-2004, 07:08 PM

I think it would have been a good idea to use the meet (if not for those going to the Olympics) for those who have just missed out on teams, ones like Lan4 mentioned: Liam Tancock, Mark Lewis, Matt Bowe, Keri-Anne Payne, Rebecca Adlington, Stephanie Proud, Adam Whitehead and Rachel Genner (and I would add a few others to the list as well). Whilst I think british swimming are great at handling many situations, some, such as looking after those "in the middle" swimmers (who just miss teams, or who were extremely promising when young and have consequently been pushed very hard and may now be going through a bad patch), not so good.

speedoboy

14-05-2004, 07:19 PM

I fully agree with you katie

Nevilles polish

14-05-2004, 10:17 PM

I don't think the likes of Liam Tancock, Mark Lewis, Matt Bowe, Keri-Anne Payne, Rebecca Adlington, Stephanie Proud, Adam Whitehead or Rachel Genner would have come 22nd at these Championships. These are not your average run of the mill Joe Swimmer!

Just ask Neville's Polish - he'll tell you! ;)

Top Banana

Dont forget Matt Clay, Nathan Oxford, Ryan Tancock, and especially Teri Dunning who needs the encouragement to keep pushing Georgina Lee. Everytime I have seen Gina Lee swim over the past couple of years she has not been able to get the competition she needs to make tight qualifying times. There is no reason that with encouragement for Dunning and the other good youngsters in the 200 fly in particular, this could become a strong event for Britain,but they do need that encouragement.

Nevilles polish

14-05-2004, 10:22 PM

I don't think the selection policy for the World SC team is out yet so it's hard to focus on that.

Selection policy is not out yet either but we will be sending a 4th or 5th string to European SC this year and have sent 2nd/3rd strings to it the past few years - for experience - so a precedent has been set and thus it could be argued to do likewise at Euro LC - which after all is a LONG COURSE meet!

I understood that the selection policy was that you need to finish in the top two at the short course trials in at least two events.

lane4

15-05-2004, 12:27 AM

When are the swimmers going to the olympics meant to train. You seem to forget that during the month of April they were away for three weeks at trials, Loughborouhgh and the French Nationals. With less than 100days to go untill the Olympics now is the time to prepare at home with their coach. I agree it is a real shame the timing of this tournament as i am sure most of our elite swimmers would love to compete, but Athens must be the priority.
Well they did train whilst in Loughborough and what did they gain from French Nationals that they could not get from Madrid?

The main point is not about the Olympic selected swimmers attending though; it's the fact that we should have a team there. Surely something could have been gained from being at the meet that would have benefitted us in the long term? Certainly, if nothing else, it was a great opportunity for blooding some upcoming coaches or coaches inexperienced at that level. Bill has told us a 1000 times that the coach's experience must stay ahead of the experience of the athlete. A missed opportunity I think!

speedoboy

15-05-2004, 11:34 AM

Well they did train whilst in Loughborough and what did they gain from French Nationals that they could not get from Madrid?

The main point is not about the Olympic selected swimmers attending though; it's the fact that we should have a team there. Surely something could have been gained from being at the meet that would have benefitted us in the long term? Certainly, if nothing else, it was a great opportunity for blooding some upcoming coaches or coaches inexperienced at that level. Bill has told us a 1000 times that the coach's experience must stay ahead of the experience of the athlete. A missed opportunity I think!

They may have trained in Loughborough and at the French nationals but not all with there own coaches and as they would have liked. The real hard work is done at home with their coach.

But as I already stated I completely agree that a team should have been sent for the benefit of athletes and coaches to gain valuable experience for the future.

Bazza

15-05-2004, 12:33 PM

Is there any point in spending the money in sending a 2nd/3rd string to the Europeans for experience? It makes a mockery of the European Champs for a start.

So sending a 2nd/3rd team makes more of a mockery of these champs than not sending a team at all (Which many major European nations have effectively done)??

DAK

15-05-2004, 03:00 PM

So sending a 2nd/3rd team makes more of a mockery of these champs than not sending a team at all (Which many major European nations have effectively done)??

In my opinion, yes.

Top10ranking

15-05-2004, 05:02 PM

im sure bill knows best

GettingFaster

15-05-2004, 09:09 PM

Yes! We should be at this meet!
Lord help me, I'm agreeing with our young Northern friend. :D
It's a great shame that British swimming has missed out on such a prestigeous opportunity to work our 'almost there' swimmers. We're not talking about taking failures to the meet - labelling them as people who didn't make it to the Olympics - but future successes. If we're supposed to be taking a long-term approach in British swimming this meet would have been a terrific learning experience. And DAK, would you seriously say that bringing home medals from the European Champs is devaluing that meet? Attending it with medal hopefuls is surely no devaluation.

Steve

15-05-2004, 11:25 PM

They may have trained in Loughborough and at the French nationals but not all with there own coaches and as they would have liked. The real hard work is done at home with their coach.

But as I already stated I completely agree that a team should have been sent for the benefit of athletes and coaches to gain valuable experience for the future.
Yes, but when they get to Athens a majority of the team will not be with their home coach, so surely this is an important opportunity to get to know those who will be looking after them in the build up to and during the Olympics.