Paralympic Swimmimg Trials

[londoner62]

Swimming is scheduled on the BBC Sunday 16th May. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/grandstand/3708305.stm It may only be a few minutes but these guys deserve all the coverage they can get.

Paul

[lane4]

I remember numerous Paralympians/EAD's/Disabled swimmers (not sure what latest name for them is?) competing and qualifying for the Paralympics at the GB Nationals/Olympic Trials in Sheffield April 7-11. Why then, do they then have another 'Trials' just for themselves? Surely this meet should be 'inclusive' and able bodied athletes allowed to take part as well? Whatever happened to political correctness? If GB held their 'Trials' for able bodied athletes only there would be an outcry! Certainly a certain Mr Foster would have liked another chance to qualify!

[Kaci]

Whatever happened to political correctness?

If everyone was concerned with political correctness then it wouldn't be called 'disability' swimming. (I'm studying Disability sport as an elective)

[chris_lamb]

I remember numerous Paralympians/EAD's/Disabled swimmers (not sure what latest name for them is?) competing and qualifying for the Paralympics at the GB Nationals/Olympic Trials in Sheffield April 7-11. Why then, do they then have another 'Trials' just for themselves? Surely this meet should be 'inclusive' and able bodied athletes allowed to take part as well? Whatever happened to political correctness? If GB held their 'Trials' for able bodied athletes only there would be an outcry! Certainly a certain Mr Foster would have liked another chance to qualify!

Perhaps it is just a case of timing - the Olympic Trials took 2 (or was it 3) days, the Paralympic Trials another 2. Would it all have fitted into a single weekend, and if not, would the able-bodied swimmers be prepared to have their meet extended?

[lane4]

Perhaps it is just a case of timing - the Olympic Trials took 2 (or was it 3) days, the Paralympic Trials another 2.
I'm sure there were disability events every day at the Trials in April.

[londoner62]

PLEASE EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE but surely it takes longer for an EAD to complete a comparable event so more time must be needed to complete the program so following this logic through more days might be needed to finish the Trials?

[GettingFaster]

Is anyone on the board actively involved in disability swimming (or whatever it's currently called)? I was under the impression that there are different classifications, generally along the lines of golf handicaps though I might be way off, so calculating who wins what can be a bit more complicated than having a single open event. If anyone out there can give us a suitably informed opinion it would be most welcome.

Although there were some MD events (that's how they were labelled in the results) swum at Sheffield I reckon there couldn't have been enough events to allow the full range of potential Olympic athletes to compete.

Surely this meet should be 'inclusive' and able bodied athletes allowed to take part as well? Whatever happened to political correctness? If GB held their 'Trials' for able bodied athletes only there would be an outcry! Certainly a certain Mr Foster would have liked another chance to qualify!
And at the risk of being terribly un-PC and with no insults intended to anyone, unless Mr F would consider poking out one of his eyes or removing a leg or something similarly drastic then he'd probably doesn't meet the qualification criteria for this particular event. If he did, then he could indeed swim at it. Inclusiveness doesn't come into it, just qualifying criteria. And it's qualifying criteria and not meeting them that led to your suggestion in the first place, isn't it?

[chris_lamb]

Is anyone on the board actively involved in disability swimming (or whatever it's currently called)? I was under the impression that there are different classifications, generally along the lines of golf handicaps though I might be way off, so calculating who wins what can be a bit more complicated than having a single open event. If anyone out there can give us a suitably informed opinion it would be most welcome.

I am not particularly involved, but have officiated at a couple of disabled competitions so understand vaguely how it works.

There are a number of different classifications, but quite different to golf. The focus is on what the swimmer is able to do (they have a Functional Ability Card), not on what they cannot do. All swimmers have to comply with the rules unless their level of ability prevents them from doing so. I think the results are calculated on a per-classification basis, not overall - each swimmer competes against others with similar abilities.

Although there were some MD events (that's how they were labelled in the results) swum at Sheffield I reckon there couldn't have been enough events to allow the full range of potential Olympic athletes to compete.

I think they only did the lower classifications at Olympic Trials - ie the least severly handicapped, most able to be treated as an able-bodied swimmer. I could be wrong though...

[Katie]

I think you're right Chris, I know they included higher classifications at the second trials, so the S15 category was included. This category involves swimmers with hearing difficulties, who were trialing not for the Paralympics, but for the Deaflympics. I don't think they are eligible for the Paralympics, as it is presumably felt that their disability does not affect their swimming as such. A girl from my club was trialing for the Deaflympics (which are in Aus later this year I think), but I think they're still waiting for the team to be announced. :)

[londoner62]

To put this back to the start, did anyone watch the swimming? Who is gonna medal for us at the Paralympics?

[lane4]

I think they only did the lower classifications at Olympic Trials - ie the least severly handicapped, most able to be treated as an able-bodied swimmer. I could be wrong though...
You are wrong. They did the full range. I know this for certain as Danielle Watts was competing and she is an S1 (most severly disabled) - although she had to qualify thru the S2 route (which she did) becasue S1 will not be included at the Paralympics (presumably because there are not enough competitors in the event to make a competition of it?).

[lane4]

Who is gonna medal for us at the Paralympics?
Just look at the full team list and you will find your answer: Everyone! In the Sydney Paralympics we won 1000s of medals. In relative terms, and for lots of different reasons, it is ridiculously more easy to win medals in the Paralympics than the Olympics.

[lane4]

And it's qualifying criteria and not meeting them that led to your suggestion in the first place, isn't it?
No, its the fact that the MD (if that's what we are calling them) had their Trials within the GB Nationals in April (British Swimming being inclusive and all) and then they go and have another Trials - but this time it's EXCLUSIVE. I don't see why they should be included in the Olympic Trials if they are going to have their own exclusive Trials a month later!?

[Kaci]

you can't have all the disability events as there are so many catagories put into the Olympic trials well not yet anyway. its important that they are included as much as possible and if its a question of putting half the programme in the trials then that better then not being included at all.

[GettingFaster]

No, its the fact that the MD (if that's what we are calling them) had their Trials within the GB Nationals in April (British Swimming being inclusive and all) and then they go and have another Trials - but this time it's EXCLUSIVE. I don't see why they should be included in the Olympic Trials if they are going to have their own exclusive Trials a month later!?
In general there are much fewer opportunities in disability swimming to compete, certainly at age-group level. It may well be the same at elite level. I don't understand why you have such a problem about it, lane4. As someone suggested earlier, would you have been happier to have the Olympic and Paralympic trials all held together so that they either go on for longer or fewer swimmers get the opportunity to trial? I don't think that's a sensible approach.

The arrangements for the trials were pretty well-balanced, I thought, with some of the potential paralympians swimming at the GB Nationals so that mainstream swimming is exposed to the fine work these athletes put into the same sport. In my view mainstream swimming has often played down or ignored anyone who doesn't fit into the very narrow criteria of 'elite swimming' (far be it for me to suggest that you might be one of them, with your record of interest in anyone other than Open Elite swimmers on the boards). Giving mainstream swimming the opportunity to actively support disability elite swimmers is absolutely the right way to go. That side of the sport is currently a bit of a poor relation, so what's wrong with helping with the exposure until it can get exposure in its own right?

[lane4]

So what's wrong with helping with the exposure until it can get exposure in its own right?
Nothing. I never said that. I object to events which are exclusively for MD swimmers not events that include MD swimmers - especially when an inclusive meet has already been staged for them!

As for getting exposure in its own right - I'm afraid I have to forecast that that will never happen. I just do not see the public ever being interested enough in MD sport to make it mainstream, or even get its own exposure. Exposure that is given to MD sport is purely in order that the BBC (I've never seen MD sport on any channel apart from the BBC) appears politically correct and upholds its charter - and not because there is a significant public demand for it. You might not like it but it is unfortunately true.

[Phil Tanner]

(presumably because there are not enough competitors in the event to make a competition of it?).

If it's done like the Commonwealths, this wouldn't happen because every event is handicapped (no unfortunate pun intended, the word fits best) against the relevant world record for the disability group. So hypothetically the slowest time could win a multi-disability event.

[lane4]

If it's done like the Commonwealths
There is nobody, not even those in MD events, who thinks that method is a fair and good way to do it!

[lane4]

As someone suggested earlier, would you have been happier to have the Olympic and Paralympic trials all held together so that they either go on for longer or fewer swimmers get the opportunity to trial? I don't think that's a sensible approach.
Well the Trials should have gone on for longer anyway. We should have run an 8 day meet mirroring the Olympic programme and thus giving our athletes a proper chance to simulate the conditions. France and the Aussies did this, USA will do it too. However, there was enough time in 5 days to include all the MD events, the pool was empty every afternoon. And so in 8 days it would have been very easy indeed!

Interestingly, you might like to know that USA Swimming has nothing at all to do with MD swimming. The USOC is the governing body for MD swimming over there. USA Swimming does not include MD swimmers in their meets, nor do they have any authority to!

[Kaci]

As for getting exposure in its own right - I'm afraid I have to forecast that that will never happen. I just do not see the public ever being interested enough in MD sport to make it mainstream, or even get its own exposure. Exposure that is given to MD sport is purely in order that the BBC (I've never seen MD sport on any channel apart from the BBC) appears politically correct and upholds its charter - and not because there is a significant public demand for it. You might not like it but it is unfortunately true.

I think you are right to a certain extent. Over the last 10 years or so there has been a real emphasis on women in sport. I don't think it wil be long till that focus is placed on MD sport. Especially from the amputee catagories. We see amputee runners with specially constructed limbs, maybe one day we will see swimmers with the same.