Bagcat to Youth - is it that much harder?

[stevenewman1]

Just returned from excellent 4 days in Sheffield and now watching the live results form the Youth Championships as I pretend to work.

One thing that has caught my eye is how fewer entries there are in the youth age groups.

In the Bagcats there were 71 13 yr old girls competing in the 100m freestyle. In the youth there are only 7 14 yr olds? Why would this be?

The 7th girl result in the Youth heat swam 1.03:83 - there were 48 girls that swam faster than this in the Bagcat heats.

Is it that the qualification times are that much harder or fewer 14yr old girls competing because they have more distractions competing for their time. Are there any simple answers - Lane 4 normally advises me the obvious!

(I am a dad of a 13yr old girl which is why I am interested)

[H2o]

Have just had a text message from a parent at Sheffield.
Apparently soem semi's are being swum with empty lanes.......
if you don't do an NQT you don't swim!!!

How unfair.

:rolleyes:

[GettingFaster]

Have just had a text message from a parent at Sheffield.
Apparently soem semi's are being swum with empty lanes.......
if you don't do an NQT you don't swim!!!

How unfair.

:rolleyes:
Do you mean that if you don't do an NQT in the heat that you can't swim in the semis? How odd (putting it mildly). I thought the point of the NQTs was to get to the competition, was it ever set down that it was a minimum time for all swims at the comp? Bizarre, if true...

[croberts]

Do you mean that if you don't do an NQT in the heat that you can't swim in the semis? How odd (putting it mildly). I thought the point of the NQTs was to get to the competition, was it ever set down that it was a minimum time for all swims at the comp? Bizarre, if true...

Many championship meets at the local/regional level in the US have a rule where if you don't swim the qualifying time at the meet you don't score any points or get medals. But if you qualify for finals you still get to swim again. I guess this is a case of taking that rule a little further...

[swimmer]

mayby a way to check that no-one has cheated on the entry time? ie saying they got a NQT when they didnt, as they can't check allllll the times? or mayby to ensure a high quality semi/final? Sounds a bit pointless to have empty lanes though!

[GettingFaster]

... as they can't check allllll the times?
Actually, yes they can, and I'm pretty sure the ASA would do if there was even an inkling that someone might not have dealt with their entry properly. For all I know, they automatically check every entry they get.

NQTs have to be obtained at designated meets. Part of the stipulation on a designated meet is that you send the results up to the central ASA office within 5 days of the final session. And there are not thousands of swimmers entering so their details, and the details of the meets they claim to have achieved the time at, are clearly stated. While it is possible to be 'a little optimistic' with entry times for something like a County championship, it just ain't possible with Nationals. If there were any suspicion that someone hadn't got the time, there would be plenty of whistle-blowers ("How come little Johnny is in Nationals? My little Freddie swam against them at XX meet and they were nowhere near the QT. I think I'll call the ASA about that." We know there are plenty of parents like that around!)

[Bazza]

Maybe it's so they can practice racing fast heats, semis and finals? Come to think of it, how long have they had semis at nationals? :confused:

[H2o]

I think it's the first year for semi's but not sure.

Any one got any links to Youth results OTHER than British swimming and sportscentronic as they are both down!!!l

[H2o]

:) :) :)

it's back!!!
:p :p :p

[Phil Tanner]

Just got back this afternoon. (Daughter did two reasonable swims narrowly off PB, three poor ones well off, so back to the drawing board...)

Semis were in the 50 free and 100 all strokes, and it was indeed no NQT = no semi. Can't fault the logic. I don't know if you then needed to NQT in the semi to be allowed into the final. (I think it was also no heat NQT = no final in the 200s and 400s, but I doubt very much that needed to be applied.)

My impression was that most pairs of semis were announced with fewer than 10 in each, and a couple had only 11 or 12 in total. If they had only 10, I don't know if they would have swum a 1 x10 semi or 2 x 5 or gone straight to a final. Enough swimmers making NQTs in heats to be able to name a full set of reserves for semis seemed quite rare.

[Phil Tanner]

Just returned from excellent 4 days in Sheffield and now watching the live results form the Youth Championships as I pretend to work.

One thing that has caught my eye is how fewer entries there are in the youth age groups.

In the Bagcats there were 71 13 yr old girls competing in the 100m freestyle. In the youth there are only 7 14 yr olds? Why would this be?

The 7th girl result in the Youth heat swam 1.03:83 - there were 48 girls that swam faster than this in the Bagcat heats.

Is it that the qualification times are that much harder or fewer 14yr old girls competing because they have more distractions competing for their time. Are there any simple answers

Good point, Steve. The times do get much stiffer (14/15 200s seemed to be around 2 seconds quicker than the same group last year). I think some of this season's 13s girls' NQTs were actually marginally easier than 2003's, but of course this should have no bearing on the times people then swim when they get there.

On the 13/14 thing generally, I dunno:
- 13-year-olds will have had virtually all their competitive careers under the post-Sydney regime and maybe this is driving up standards;
- OTOH maybe 14-year-old times are so tough some people who could have got them have written off trying for them and settled for district or county level, or another sport.

[chris_lamb]

Actually, yes they can, and I'm pretty sure the ASA would do if there was even an inkling that someone might not have dealt with their entry properly. For all I know, they automatically check every entry they get.

They certainly could check. All licensed meets have to submit their results for rankings purposes, so they could easily check entry times against the rankings database.

[Clem1]

Good point, Steve. The times do get much stiffer (14/15 200s seemed to be around 2 seconds quicker than the same group last year). I think some of this season's 13s girls' NQTs were actually marginally easier than 2003's, but of course this should have no bearing on the times people then swim when they get there.

On the 13/14 thing generally, I dunno:
- 13-year-olds will have had virtually all their competitive careers under the post-Sydney regime and maybe this is driving up standards;
- OTOH maybe 14-year-old times are so tough some people who could have got them have written off trying for them and settled for district or county level, or another sport.

Another possable reason, is that im guessing the 7th 14 y/o time used was the slowest, and this could be a swimmer, who, as many there obviously did, got the time, then practically stopped training. I also think this would be a reason for semi's in the 100's, to ensure swimmers train hard after they have got the time, so they can still hit the NQT at Nats, and get in the semi's.

[Phil Tanner]

Watched your 200 breaststroke yesterday and it looked really good. Well done.

[Clem1]

Watched your 200 breaststroke yesterday and it looked really good. Well done.
Cheers Phil, just hope the talent spotters thought so too.
I have got a 6ft 7' arm span ;)

[Top10ranking]

I have got a 6ft 7' arm span ;)

any relevance clem?

[swimgurl]

that is a pretty impressive arm span though! the same as phelps i do believe :rainbow:

[Clem1]

any relevance clem?
No, just thought id throw it in, and yes, I think it is the same as phelps, and im about 4-5cm shorter than him.

[Natasha]

Is this arm span thing about when you have to go to that room when you make a final and have all those measurements taken?

[Clem1]

Is this arm span thing about when you have to go to that room when you make a final and have all those measurements taken?
Yer, but i didnt make a final so I measured it @ home
Got size 15 feet 2 :)

[swimgurl]

Yer, but i didnt make a final so I measured it @ home
Got size 15 feet 2 :)

showoff :p

[Top10ranking]

phelps is 200 according to the eveining standard im bigger than thorpe :) shame clem cant swim free!

[swimgurl]

phelps is 200 according to the eveining standard im bigger than thorpe :) shame clem cant swim free!

sorry if this is really ovious but phelps is 200 of what for what?

[Top10ranking]

sorry if this is really ovious but phelps is 200 of what for what?

his arm span sorry if unclear

[Natasha]

Yer, but i didnt make a final so I measured it @ home
Got size 15 feet 2 :)

Size 15 - pretty big! I had the biggest jump for 14 year old girls...i was very pleased - 40cm.