2004 Olympics!! [Archive] - SwimClub.co.uk Forums

mad4it

13-08-2004, 10:21 PM

Well with the actually swimming starting tomorrow morning I thought we had better start a proper thread for all Olympic discussions!
So first up we have....

400 IM Heat 4: Robin Francis & Adrian Turner
100 Fly Heat 4: Georgina Lee
400 Free Heat 5: Adam Faulkner
400 Free Heat 6: Graeme Smith
100 Brs Heat 6: Darren Mew
100 Brs Heat 7: James Gibson
4x100 Free Heat 1: Team GB > ? Mel Marshall, Ros Brett, Lisa Chapman, Kathryn Evans, Karen Pickering. ?

Hopefully lots of semi-final and final qualifiers but that is yet to be seen...

Let the Games commence! :D

**The heats start at 10.00 [Greek time] and run till 12.36, finals begin at 19.30 and end at 21.17**

Top10ranking

13-08-2004, 10:34 PM

what time does it start tomorrow morning?

crawler

13-08-2004, 10:44 PM

Can't wait - even endured most of the opening ceremony!
I have bought stacks of blank tapes tonight, but will miss the latter heats as I'm teaching all morning.
First objective as you say is for our swimmers to qualify for finals - that in itself would be a great improvement on Sydney!
Let's keep this thread active, cos I've noticed in previous Champs i.e. Commonwealth - things seemed to be really slow.
I enjoyed the BBC preview on Thursday night- they cover it well overall.

Natasha

14-08-2004, 10:53 AM

I felt so sorry for some of our swimmers this morning (Francis, Turner, Lee, Faulkner and Smith) they swam over their PBs failing to qualify for the semis.

But we still have hope because Mew and Gibson did good 100m breaststrokes, finishing 3rd and 4th place respectively after the heats. Our Women's 4 x 100m freestyle relay went well (Sheppherd, Evans, Pickering and Marshall) going through to the next round.

Steve

14-08-2004, 11:46 AM

One has to wonder what happened with some of those swims this morning - Francis at +0.5s was the closest to his time from the trials, with Turner an astonishing +6 and a bit seconds down on his British Record, Lee +1s, Faulkner +1.5ish and Smith +2. I suspect that Bill will not be a happy chappie after that little lot.

However, the breaststroke boys looked pretty good and at +1% on their respective PB's look well set for a 1%-0%-PB progression into the final. Let's hope they both make it.

As for the women's relay, interesting team that went out this morning. I woudl be surprised to see Sheppard in the final as she really appeared to tie up towards the end, but I thought Kathryn Evans looked very impressive and I think we will see a team of Marshall, Evans, Legg and Pickering (in that order) in this evenings race. Can't see anyone beating the US and Australia though - the Aussies looked very good and will probably have Petria Thomas in the team tonight after her 54.9 at the trials in April.

I hope you are all enjoying the BBC coverage of the swimming - the Aussie commentators are pretty poor and almost make me nostalgic for Drew Gordon! Don Talbot (former Aussie Head Coach) and Kieren Perkins have dropped some classic clangers today - amongst others Talbot referred to Yana Klochkova as having "held the world 200m breaststroke record about 18 months ago", and Perkins managed to get Thorpe and Hackett confused, spending half of Thorpe's heat referring to how Grant was looking very relaxed!

Natasha

14-08-2004, 12:16 PM

crawler

14-08-2004, 12:32 PM

Hmm mixed fortunes definitely but the events today are not really those favourable to GB.
The 100m BRS will be exciting as a spectacle, to have at least 5 swimmers all capable of medals, makes for a great race - better than some of the processions no doubt in some events.
Thought Hackett looked very good in the 400 Free. The 4x100 FS Ladies final should be close - at least they must swim Pickering in the anchor leg in this Games!
Fingers crossed too for Taylor and Waterfield (8.15pm tonight) in the 10m Synchro Diving (having placed 4th in Sydney).

Natasha

14-08-2004, 01:17 PM

Lane4 - it's so amazing that you are out there watching it all. I'm sure a lot of us are very jealous!

Ros only went 57 in the time trial? I thought she went faster than that. I know that she was pleased with the time she did...so I thought it would have been much faster.

lane4

14-08-2004, 01:19 PM

Ros only went 57 in the time trial?
That's what I was told by someone who saw it.

Top10ranking

14-08-2004, 06:09 PM

inge de bruin very impressive in 100fly!

well done to the women 4x100 6th

Top10ranking

14-08-2004, 06:10 PM

disappointed about thorpes time but a very good race as with the womens 400im

Natasha

14-08-2004, 06:17 PM

well done to the women 4x200 6th

Do you mean the 4 x 100m?

Grant Hackett put up a great fight in mens 400m freestyle - very good to watch.

Top10ranking

14-08-2004, 06:19 PM

lol yeah

Katie

14-08-2004, 06:52 PM

Tara

14-08-2004, 07:06 PM

Poor Thorpe, the pressure on him must have been unbearable. Thje relief was so obvious at the end!!! I was really pleased for him, but thought the time might be better. What happened to Katie Hoff???? 4.47??? How disappointing. Great victory for the aussies in the 4 x 100, and our girls did great as well :D
Apparently Hoff let the nerves get to her. She "vomited" after the race-all due to the nerves, and according to "sources at the scene" had problems breathing. Poor thing, it was her first International meet, at only just 15, and she apparently has swam under 20 long course 400 IMs. Hopefully she will pull something out in the 200. Theres an article on her :Hoff article (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/athens/swimming/2004-08-14-hoff-400im_x.htm)

Splits for the GB girls were Marshall 55.4, Evans 54.3, Pickering 55.4 and Chapman 55.4.
The Aussie girls splits were Mills 54.7, Lenton 53.5, Thomas 54.6 and Henry 52.9! USA were Joyce 54.7, Coughlin 53.8, Weir 54.0, Thompson 53.7.
Other fast splits were De Bruin 53.3, Gotz 53.9, Metella 53.9.

Natasha

14-08-2004, 07:26 PM

So Kathryn Evans had the fastest split for our team? I thought Mel would have, I'm surprised. It's Evans' last international event isn't it?

geochuck

14-08-2004, 10:10 PM

Watched all the swimming on CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.), great coverage of all sports.

George Park

mad4it

14-08-2004, 10:37 PM

Great Swimming from Day1, just watched it all on tape after being at a **grumble** ASA Assistant Teacher Course **grumble** all day. Phelps' swim was pretty good altho our commentators were getting rather excited that he was going to go miles under! 4.08 is great anyway! :D The 100 Fly should be good tomorrow night, it was good to see Inge swimming well again and she no doubt gave Petria some shock tonight! That will be some awesome final tomorrow night with Thomas,De Bruijn, Schipper, Jedrzejczak, Moravcova and Thompson all within 1.4 of each other!
Mens 400 Free was good, to see Grant really tackle Thorpe on the final 50 was super, I did think Thorpe controlled the whole race and the he definately set the pace, perhaps the others were too concerned with him and didn't really focus enough on going out there for themselves. Who knows, great for Ian to win after all the controversy, no doubt Craig Stevens will be (half) happy that his sacrifice enabled a 1-2 for Oz. The Womens 400 IM was good too a great battle between Klochkova and Sandeno, altho disappointing for Katie Hoff, a great swimmer altho it makes you think that the British set up is quite good introducing youngsters to International meets such as Australian Age Groups, European Juniors, World Cups etc, I personally think its shocking that she could have been a contender for 400IM Gold and has never swam internationally and she hasn't swam 400IM LC more than 20 times!
Mens 100 Breast was good, great swims from our guys and also from Kosuke and Brendan, that will be some final tomorrow night! :D
Welldone to the ladies in the 4 x 100m Free, very impressive takeover from Lisa Chapman, 0.07, the fastest in the whole final, great splits from all our girls. :D

Bring on tomorrow.....

Katy Sexton & Sarah Price battle with Natalie Coughlin and Laure Manaudou in the Womens 100 Back.
The fight is on between Phelps, Thorpe and Van Den Hoogenband in the Mens 200 Free.
Tara Kirk, Leisel Jones, Amanda Beard, Xuejuan Luo and Brooke Hansen will be battling in the Womens 100 Breast.
Aaron Piersol, Lenny Krayzelburg, Matt Welsh, GB's Gregor Tait go in the 100 Back.
Jo Jackson makes her Olympic debut in the Womens 400 Free.
And finally USA, Russian and Australia will be fighting for honours in the Mens 4 x 100 Free Relay.

mmmm....I guess where I will be all day?? Sat in front of the TV... I think so!! :D

Steve

15-08-2004, 12:08 AM

Hmm mixed fortunes definitely but the events today are not really those favourable to GB.

That's not really the point though, one would hope to see people swimming at or under their best times at an international meet. Based on previous championships I was starting to hope that it poor heat swims were a habit we were getting out of. Hope things pick up today.

Fingers crossed too for Taylor and Waterfield (8.15pm tonight) in the 10m Synchro Diving (having placed 4th in Sydney).

Fantastic result for the lads - silver!

lane4

15-08-2004, 05:26 AM

...silverYes indeed a great result, especially since I was there to watch it. Picked up some free tickets from a famous swimwear company just after the finals and went straight into the diving to see our boys take the honours!

;) :p :devil:

Steve

15-08-2004, 07:09 AM

So Kathryn Evans had the fastest split for our team? I thought Mel would have, I'm surprised. It's Evans' last international event isn't it?

Don't forget Kathryn was off a flying start while Mel was off the gun. Still think she was hoping for more. Still a great swim from Evans, and a good way to bow out.

Katie

15-08-2004, 09:27 AM

Great swim for Simon Burnett in the 200 free to make the semis (and some flirting with Sharron too I hear... has he no pride???). Also Rebecca Cooke 4.08.1 in the 400 to make the final in 5th place, that was such a god swim. Real shame for Jo Jackson who missed out, recording 4.14. Semi finallists: Katy Sexton and Sarah Price in women's 100 back, Gregor Tait in mens 100 back (matt welsh was 9th!!). Looking forward to the men's breaststroke final too.

Best swim of the morning for me was South Africa in the men's 4 x 100 - what an amazing performance! It would be great to see them take the gold and world record in the final, but I suspect the USA will bring out their A team for that!!! :)

lozswimmer

15-08-2004, 12:35 PM

Yes indeed a great result, especially since I was there to watch it. Picked up some free tickets from a famous swimwear company just after the finals and went straight into the diving to see our boys take the honours!

;) :p :devil:

Your so lucky!!! wish i was there!!!lol :p

Natasha

15-08-2004, 01:06 PM

Don't forget Kathryn was off a flying start while Mel was off the gun. Still think she was hoping for more. Still a great swim from Evans, and a good way to bow out.

I think Mel was a bit disappointed, but I hope she can pull out some good swims - she deserves them.

I missed all the swims this morning because I had to go training :cry: but you just try and hold me back from the finals!

lozswimmer

15-08-2004, 02:36 PM

im training when the finals are on later!! gotta tape them though. definately not missing the mens breastroke!!!!!!!!!!
its gonna be such a close race...

crawler

15-08-2004, 04:21 PM

Well think of me sat at in-laws for tea whilst majority of finals take place snarl.
I have point-blank refused to leave before 100m BRs though (Hansen to suffer nerves I think!) - prospect of some great finals. I would love to see rebecca Cooke beat sarah Hardcastle's BR tonight and Thomas to win the Fly please.

Mens 4x100 FS relay should be wonderful - S Africa's time was astonishing, Phelps must come in for US, and Russia of course will add Popov to their team. Makes me wonder if Aus might struggle to medal!

Enjoy the finals - and no shouting results till I've watched the tape!!

KatieBun

15-08-2004, 05:49 PM

Thomas to win the Fly please.

Got your wish then, crawler! I'm now settling down for a good wallow, body clock all over the place, just back from Aus. I'll watch them for you while you're having tea with the in-laws! ;)

mad4it

15-08-2004, 06:31 PM

Phelps' Eight Gold Medal Goal has been crushed by an amazing performance from the South African 4 x 100 Free team who took the gold in spectacular style, oh an set a new world record at the same time! The Netherlands took the silver with USA settling for a disappointing third place.

A very exciting finals session even from my sofa, it was great to see Petria win and with so much emotion too, that girl deserves it and I hope she gets the 200 aswell. Simon's semi was awesome and to make the final of the mens 200 free in 6th place is unbelievable, he is in a world-supreme line-up : Thorpe, Phelps, Hoogenband, Hackett and Keller!

Disappointment for Pricey and Sexton, altho Sarah had it seriously bad requiring 7 stitches for her bust up shin. She seemed quite positive for 2008 afterwards altho clearly upset. [Lane4 have you got any up-to-date info on Sarah's leg?]

The boys...well...could they really have been expected to medal? Gibson died in the final 15m and Mew was never really in the race, altho I have to admit that I was rather excited at about the 75m mark because he was still in contention. A great race tho from Kosuke & Brendan and a cracking finish from Hugues Duboscq in lane 1.

Becky's 400 race was exciting but her heat was much better, that was a great swim though having not qualified in it at trials. Anyone think Balfour may get an opportunity like Cooke has?

Great racing from day 2 :), I'm looking forward to tomorrow tho...

:D Mens 200 Free!! Phelps? Thorpe? Hoogenband? Hackett? or Burnett perhaps?!

We've also got Mel Marshall's 200 Free heats. Katie Hoff will be swimming in the 200IM, lets hope she can maintain focus and have a great swim.
And of course Steve Parry gets going in the 200 Fly, plus the finals of Mens 100 Back; Piersol or Krayzelburg, Womens 100 Breast; Jones, Beard, Kirk or Hanson?

:D :D :D

Tara

15-08-2004, 06:32 PM

Hmm certainly not a great night in the pool for the Brits although Simon Burnett swam fantastically to make the final of the 200 free!

Race of the night for me was the mens 400 free relay, very exciting, had even the non-swimming members of my family excited!!!

Fastest split was 46.7 from Van Den Hooganband (is this the fastest relay split ever, i think there has been a 46 before???) RSA splits were 48.1, 48.1, 48.9 and 47.9. USA were 50.0 (crocker), 48.7 (phelps), 47.9 (walker), and 47.8 (lezak). Thorpe split 48.1.

Article on Sarah on BBC online BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/3567860.stm)

Top10ranking

15-08-2004, 07:01 PM

funny that the aussies only managed 6th after having the world record.

Meiri

15-08-2004, 07:21 PM

VDH swam a 46.70 at last year's world championships.. just a bit faster than today.

Top10ranking

15-08-2004, 07:23 PM

very impressive

swimgurl

15-08-2004, 07:40 PM

no medals for GB yet, none in the mens breast thats pretty dissapointing as they were one of are main medal contenders but hopefully the british team will pick up as the week progresses

Meiri

15-08-2004, 07:42 PM

I was very impressed with Burnett's 200 free.. it's about 2 seconds improvement to his old PB, right?
And Cooke also impressed me alot..
So from what it looks like this far, it's the 'lower profile' swimmers that are swimming well in Athens.. no one expected anything from Cooke in the 400, and Burnett wasn't expected to go 1:47 either. The guys that were expected to swim fast however, didn't manage to do so (Jackson, the breasstrokers, Sexton..). Let's hope it'll change tomorrow with Marshall's 200 free!

Top10ranking

15-08-2004, 07:47 PM

yeah a pb and gb record

Nevilles polish

15-08-2004, 07:58 PM

Fantastic swim from Burnett, and I would like to think it will encourage age groupers who do not win medals at the national age groups to continue to compete. Simon has competed for many years and I dont think he ever won a medal at the NAGS. It shows what can be accomplished with the right attitude.

Top10ranking

15-08-2004, 08:01 PM

he didnt go to nationals till youths according to his mum. He is my role model and he was really cool to talk to.

Nevilles polish

15-08-2004, 08:11 PM

I am sure he would have been too old to swim in whats now the Youths champs as that has only been running for about three years. I am sure he swam at the NAGS when he was 16 and if he didn't swim in them earlier it was that he was not good enough to qualify.
Thats why his progression has been so good

crawler

15-08-2004, 11:37 PM

...Well only just finished watching the tape (damn washing up still to be done at midnight).

Really enjoyed tonight's finals, despite the disappointment of Darren and James' 100 BRS - I would hate to be the one trying to interview them after that. To know you are capable on times of featuring in the medakls, and then ala Darren to never really be in the race, must be gutting. I was a little pleased that Hansen did not win (not a fan of Moses either - I must just have this thing about US breaststrokers!).

Very please to see Petria Thomas win the 100m Fly - such a gutsy swimmer, De Bruin really cooked her goose after the 1st 50. The French winner Manaudou of the 400FS hardly used her legs but looked in great control throughout.

I was delighted for Simon Burnett, at last a PB, and to take Palmer's BR too - qualified 6th !! and what a line-up for the Final! Best GB moment so far (cue Mel Marshall please).

What a result in the 4x100FS Men's Relay - must have been great to be there - it's always the race to really light up the crowd. I am amazed at South Africa's performance- to lead so decisively from that great start (and no Adrian it most certainly was not Crocker!!) and even Klim looked ordinary (although I have sympathy for his injury history).
No place for Gary Hall eh and to see Hoogie storming the last leg to wrench the silver form US - classic! Who would have thought they could beat that Sydney WR!!

Great way to spend a Sunday night - definitely a tape to be re-watched in time. Now where did I leave that tea-towel sigh.

lane4

16-08-2004, 05:53 AM

... - must have been great to be there -
It was!

;) :love: :music: :p :) :rainbow: :devil: :cool:

crawler

16-08-2004, 08:19 AM

It was!

;) :love: :music: :p :) :rainbow: :devil: :cool:

Funnily enough Lane 4 I nearly posted that I wished I was you - then I thought about it further :) !!

How long are you there for - and can you please administer a swift kick to the next GB swimmer who says " not bad for a morning swim".

Just breathed a sigh of relief at Mel Marshall getting into semis, I hope she can build on that because it's such an open race, and Parry placing 16th in 200 Fly to scrape into semis (ala Foster!) in 1.58.8.

At work no live timing - athens2004.com takes ages to list results -anyone know of anything swifter please?

mad4it

16-08-2004, 08:37 AM

This link at British Swimming (http://www.britishswimming.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5026-152158-169374-nav-list,00.html) has live results pretty quick altho no splits or reaction times, and so does FINA (http://www.fina.org/Athens2004_swimmingresults.html) at this link.

crawler

16-08-2004, 09:07 AM

Thanks Mad4it. Glad to see that Katie Hoff placed 3rd in the 200IM heats after her horrible 400IM nerves.

I've been scanning a few websites and lots of adverse reaction from the US to :

1. Crocker's split of 50.05 in 4x100 - criticism for coach Reese for not picking Hall (who did not turn up to support team hmm) and Crocker's apparent illness in the lead-up to event.
Personally I think no quartet from US would have overcome SA performance, and Phelps hardly reacted off the blocks so there were other factors.

2. The Hansen fans are seething at Katajima dolphin-kicks of start and turns on the BRS.Well you have to say what on earth are the stroke-judges seeing as the kicks are so visible that even our commentators :music: spotted them! It feels like they are reluctant to punish a big name swimmer - but it will be interesting to see the 200 and if he repeats this

DAK

16-08-2004, 10:04 AM

chris_lamb

16-08-2004, 10:54 AM

Some of the butterfly kicks on the Breast was terrible and very obvious in both the Mens and Womens races. Something should be done.

They'll probably change the rules to allow a dolphin kick...

Chris

16-08-2004, 11:27 AM

They'll probably change the rules to allow a dolphin kick...
I've seen British swimmers doing it when the trials are televised .... how about instant reply in swimming!!!!

chris_lamb

16-08-2004, 11:37 AM

I've seen British swimmers doing it when the trials are televised .... how about instant reply in swimming!!!!

The problems with video evidence is the same in swimming as with pretty much every sport - how do you make it fair and practical?

Are TV cameras provided so that they give the same view of every lane, including under-water cameras? If not, it isn't fair to the swimmers in the lanes with a camera.

When do you check the footage? The referee is expected to confirm the results within seconds of the finish of the race. They don't have time to review anything. Perhaps just check when the relevant official is not sure? But that could be pretty much every time. Or perhaps just check video evidence if an appeal is made - but shouldn't all the valid evidence be available to allow the referee to make the right decision first time?

Instant replays sound good at first, but are very difficult to actually implement.

Chris

16-08-2004, 11:42 AM

Instant replays sound good at first, but are very difficult to actually implement.
I was being facetious Chris :p

I can't think of many things that would ruin swimming more than instant replays :shocking:

chris_lamb

16-08-2004, 11:47 AM

I can't think of many things that would ruin swimming more than instant replays :shocking:

Really? I think it would be quite good if it could be done fairly and practically (Obviously only at major competitions)

Chris

16-08-2004, 11:53 AM

Really? I think it would be quite good if it could be done fairly and practically (Obviously only at major competitions)
It can't be though ..... think of the delays .....

Linny

16-08-2004, 05:25 PM

I agree with Chris Lamb. It would appear that some of these dolphin kicks are movement completely independant of the movement of any other part of the body and as such are simply a cynical attempt to cheat (hope that makes sense). In the same way as any other cheating the more people who get away with it and are seen to get away with it, the more people will do it. Let's face it, the way things are now you've got to be a bit of a mug to not use a sly dolphin kick or even 2.
Also if the rules are to be relaxed to allow a downbeat how long would it be before swimmers and coaches were using 2 or 3. I think the laws should be applied and cheats disqualified. How different is it from drug use?

lozswimmer

16-08-2004, 06:09 PM

WOW- STEPHEN PARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEAT PHELPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMAZING SWIM! :D :aarrgghh: :D :aarrgghh: :D

matt

16-08-2004, 06:19 PM

I must say that was a quality swim and he didn't seem to tire that much at all. Talking about not tiring, the chinese woman that won the 100br jeeeez she went for it and fair play to her winning it from lane 1. :king:

Chris

16-08-2004, 06:31 PM

WOW- STEPHEN PARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEAT PHELPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMAZING SWIM! :D :aarrgghh: :D :aarrgghh: :D
I have to say I couldn't be more impressed by Parry.

I've been thoroughly underwhelmed by the British team so far. We've had people ranked 1/2/3 in the World, and they have all performed well below the levels of which they're capable.

Steve Parry has gone out there balls first and really shown the British Team how to swim. Not phased by the opposition at all.

That's what inspires me to carry on swimming - not a jumped-up wannabe champion that bottles it when it really matters ....

It's all well and good talking the talk ..... can you walk the walk???

Chris

16-08-2004, 06:50 PM

Oh, and the 200 IM swim by 15-year-old American Katie Hoff was pretty awesome as well :wave:

H2o

16-08-2004, 07:22 PM

So all you rotters out there that didn't vote for Parry for Team Captain-
well what can I say.....................rotters

(VERY VERY mild comming from me as GF/FB and even Katie will know!!)

PARRY IS GOD..well........for today anyway.

GOOD LUCK FOR TOMORROW HUN........We'll be screaming all the way
:p :p :p :p :p :p

londoner62

16-08-2004, 08:32 PM

Some of the butterfly kicks on the Breast was terrible and very obvious in both the Mens and Womens races. Something should be done.
You are not the only one with that thought it appears. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5714746/

crawler

16-08-2004, 08:36 PM

Whoosh Parry!!!!!!!!!!!

Now i don't know whether or not to fear the Final for him - it's the usual expectation thing now for at least a bronze.
What a blooming swim - all the way down the final 50 you just expected him to start tiring but that was truly superb. Quite agree Chris after seeing Marshall's 200 I had concluded also that we would end up medal-less again.

You know they are trying their best but wonder why they can't cope when the majority of others exceed their expectations. It's the fact they come in way off their PBs that is so disheartening.

Watching Parry's post-swim interview though what a great gutsy attitude. Not wanting the camp to mope about but to get fighting hard.

5 Live were commenting earlier that when you build up a supposed team mentality then a few bad performances can drag the whole team down - must be very hard to change that mindset.

Everything crossed for Parry .... gawd I haven't even mentioned the Mens 200 Free!!!

glen_75

16-08-2004, 09:34 PM

Whoosh Parry!!!!!!!!!!!

Everything crossed for Parry .... gawd I haven't even mentioned the Mens 200 Free!!!

The men's 200 free was sensational!

Fine swim by Parry. Don't sulk just yet: Davies in the 1500 and Edmond in the 200 breast to come as well.

DAK

17-08-2004, 09:15 AM

Jason Lezak and Ian Crocker both miss out on the semi finals of the 100 Free. Solid Heat performances from Ian Edmond and Georgina Lee this morn as well as the mens 4x200 Free Team, Chris Cook scrapped into the Semis of the 200 Brs, hopefully he can do a Parry.

matt

17-08-2004, 05:01 PM

Yeah go Parry and your Bronze!!!!! Yeah

Congratulations

KatieBun

17-08-2004, 06:08 PM

Top10ranking

17-08-2004, 06:10 PM

i did think i saw his legs move but apparently it was the guy next to him. Anyone know his time? WOW i bet thorpe is immensly annoyed still very close

Natasha

17-08-2004, 06:22 PM

What I don't get is how the winner of the men's 100m breaststroke wasn't disqualified. In both the semis and the finals he did such an obvious fly kick at the beginning and after the turn. Now if they didn't disqualify that they shouldnt have disqualified Ian.

Chris

17-08-2004, 06:25 PM

Top10ranking

17-08-2004, 06:48 PM

I'd be more sympathetic if he'd swum fast enough to make the final ... but he didn't!!

what was his time?

Linny

17-08-2004, 07:36 PM

Does anyone know where the DQ was? I thought he did a huge fly kick into turn 2 but it was difficult to see properly. If that's what it was, it is difficult to be sympathetic for all there were lots of kicks out of turns and especially off the starts. Off starts and turns at least a swimmer can try and claim that the movement was as the result of the armpull but into a turn I DON'T THINK SO!

Tara

17-08-2004, 07:58 PM

what was his time?
Somewhere between 2.12.0 and 2.12.8, I would say nearer the latter looking at the end of the race. So probably he would have finished 9th (5th in his semi).

Linny

17-08-2004, 07:58 PM

Been back and had another look and it wasn't even Ian Edmund's legs I was looking at. :clown: oh where has that embarrassed smiley gone.

Tara

17-08-2004, 08:15 PM

Found the splits from the 4 x 200 relays after lots of hunting-had some friends in it-wanted to see their splits :)

1 7:07.33 United States,USA
1:46.49 Phelps Michael
1:47.52 Lochte Ryan
1:47.79 Vanderkaay Peter
1:45.53 Keller Klete
2 7:07.46 Australia,AUS
1:47.50 Hackett Grant
1:47.62 Klim Michael
1:48.16 Sprenger Nicholas
1:44.18 Thorpe Ian
3 7:11.83 Italy,ITA
1:48.16 Brembilla Emiliano
1:46.24 Rosolino Massimiliano
1:49.85 Cercato Simona
1:47.58 Magnini Filippo
4 7:12.60 Great Britain,GBR
1:47.90 Burnett Simon
1:48.46 Meadows Gavin
1:49.05 O'Brien David
1:47.19 Davenport Ross
5 7:13.33 Canada,CAN
1:49.08 Hayden Brent
1:49.15 Johns Brian
1:48.09 Hurd Andrew
1:47.01 Say Rick
6 7:16.51 Germany,GER
1:49.08 Schreiber Jens
1:49.15 Hell Hell
1:48.23 Conrad Lars
1:50.05 Keller Christian
7 7:17.43 France,FRA
1:48.57 Leveaux Amaury
1:48.67 Horth Fabien
1:50.01 Kintz Nicholas
1:50.18 Rostoucher
8 7:23.02 Greece,GRE
1:50.34 Antonopoulos Apostolos
1:51.33 Manganas Dimitrios
1:50.26 Zisimos Andreas
1:51.09 Xylouris Nikolas

Good to read some of the comments after the race too ;
klim and sprenger (http://www.athens2004.com/en/resultsSwimming/results?oid=4d207eeb53e6ef00VgnVCM4000002b130c0aRC RD&dcpnews=1&rsc=SW0000000)
Aus team (http://www.athens2004.com/en/resultsSwimming/results?oid=88c7d29afed6ef00VgnVCM4000002b130c0aRC RD&dcpnews=1&rsc=SW0000000)

Top10ranking

17-08-2004, 08:18 PM

wow thanks really fast leg by thorpe unfortunatly not enough :p

Tara

17-08-2004, 08:25 PM

Just wondering if the guy who went 2nd for Germany is really called Hell Hell or whether thats what he was thinking during the race ;)

crawler

17-08-2004, 08:40 PM

I think I may have to apologise to the neighbours for shouting so loudly at the TV during the 4x200 men's relay. What a finish! I really thought Thorpe was going to get it.
What a blow to Ian Edmond! Anybody else think it was a tad unfair?

Haa me too! I thought Phelps really stayed strong for that one after his 200Fly, and Keeler coped so well to beat Thorpe (how scary must that feel to be lined up next to him!).

Well done GB I loved the fact that in interview one of them said he was pleased that they had won the 4th place rather than losing the 3rd place. You know what he meant - they swam excellently throughout the race, stayed in touch when you worried they might die, and really pressed Italy all the way.

Good to see them setting a British record when it counted.

Top10ranking

17-08-2004, 08:45 PM

Just wondering if the guy who went 2nd for Germany is really called Hell Hell or whether thats what he was thinking during the race ;)

his surname is hell i remember but not his first name illl guess hans

matt

17-08-2004, 09:37 PM

In both the semis and the finals he did such an obvious fly kick at the beginning and after the turn.

With you on that one

crawler

17-08-2004, 10:02 PM

chris_lamb

17-08-2004, 10:07 PM

Does anyone know where the DQ was?

I don't know for certain, but from what they were saying on the radio I think it was for a downwards dolphin kick at the end of each stroke.

lane4

17-08-2004, 10:16 PM

glen_75

17-08-2004, 11:32 PM

Finally, is it just me or does anyone else hope that Germany and Canada don't trouble the medal table? :devil:
I'd hope it's just you.

Of all the countries to wish ill against ... Canada? :chainsaw:

I'll be thinking of you Crawler when we're rowing past your crew in the eights. :p

SPNRT50

18-08-2004, 01:41 AM

i just relised japan is a good medal threat, only thing they lack is a finalist sprinter...

who knew how fast those little guys go

TomCayman

18-08-2004, 02:11 AM

The announcer at the meet said Edmond was DQ'd for a "dolphin kick at the turn". His time was 2:12.24, which would have placed him 9th had there been no DQ. It might seem unfair that he got DQ'd where some others have not but dolphin kicks at turns is a very risky business and he should have known better than to risk it; especially given the fact that he got DQ'd at the 2001 World's for dolphin kicking during the stroke.

Heiko Hell I think is the guy's name being referred to in some of the above posts.

I just watched the underwater camera replays on NBC (US) coverage of both Katajima and Edmond.

Totally ridiculous situation...... in the case of Edmond, his legs separated fractionally off one turn, no way was it enough to be considered a kick...... but the judges have obviously woken up..

Why do I say that ? Well, they showed the massively obvious dolphin kick (love those underwater cameras!) by Katajima on the 100 Breast. What he did was do an obvious dolphin kick during his push off glide off the turn... 110% obvious.

Frankly I am amazed that a FINA judge of Olympic calibre missed this... no, I take that back, they could NOT have missed it... I'm just a club level S&T judge and it would have been totally obvious to me.... what happened was that the judge bottled it.... tough to DQ the first guy off the turn in an Olympic final.

Oh, and NBC then showed the push off from the turns of every turn on the 200 semi today by Katajima, and he was so motionless in his legs as to make it totally obvious he has received some serious coaching in the last few days.... they even showed a split screen of one against the other just to show how clearly he cheated last time.

Back to Edmond.... in any case he was really close off the last turn, but faded so badly he woudl have missed the final in any case. Strikes me that the Athens pool is a tad "slow" based on the proportion of swimmers PB'ing.

Proud to say that our Cayman swimmers are making a great show of our first every appearance at the Olympics.... helped no doubt by being with the UK team in Cyprus..... watch out for Cayman in 2008.

Right, back to the (tape delayed!) US coverage.

chris_lamb

18-08-2004, 06:38 AM

Frankly I am amazed that a FINA judge of Olympic calibre missed this... no, I take that back, they could NOT have missed it... I'm just a club level S&T judge and it would have been totally obvious to me.... what happened was that the judge bottled it.... tough to DQ the first guy off the turn in an Olympic final.

It was obvious to you from an under water shot, without the surface of the water and significant turbulance to distrub your view. Before condeming the judges, can you be sure that it was obvious from above the water, with all the splash and turbulance caused by the turn?

Could they have been absolutely 100% certain that a rule had been broken? You don't disqualify anyone at any level without 100% certainty.

DAK

18-08-2004, 07:16 AM

Cheapskate ASA can't even fund the overtime to keep their webmaster there at night in order to update the site promptly!! Maybe they gave him/her the nights off after the 100 BRS the other night.

Second moan - just love Omega live timing site and it's such a pain waiting for the rubbish results site to update.

Finally, is it just me or does anyone else hope that Germany and Canada don't trouble the medal table? :devil:

For a decent live results service try:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/results/1549026/detail.html#day5

Anyone got any idea why Mel Marshall has dropped the 100 Free?

Excellent swim from James Goddard in the heats of 200 Back 1.57.96 to sit second behind Piersol. Gregor Tait lying 5th with 1.59.35.

mad4it

18-08-2004, 08:59 AM

Mel Marshall dropped the 100 free so she could perform for the team in the 4x200 I think they were concerned at how exhausted she was after her individual 200 and consider the team event more important. Thats what the commentators have been saying anyway. I'm quite disappointed actually to see an empty lane at the Olympics is shocking and even more so when its a GB swimmer!

Way to go Stephen Parry!!! :D What a guy! One word: Inspirational!
Great swim, I did think he was going to really die on the final 10/15m as Phelps pulled away but an awesome 3rd 50 and last turn! That guy deserved it so much. I don't know what Sean Kelly is doing to those guys at Stockport but it seems to be working after Goddard's great heat this morining. Not a bad swim from Gregor Tait [Steve Cram is annoying me with his pronounciation(sp?) of Gregor!] 2nd and 5th for the semi-final should be good.

Mens 4x200 was great aswell, slightly disappointed they took out David Carry but O'Brien did a good job and the splits were pretty solid from the GB team, esp. Simon Burnett's 1.47.9 lead.

Lane4 did Team GB put in an appeal for Edmond? It seems rather controversial this dolphin kick however the Japanese next to him definately did it and the commentators seem to think they dq'd the wrong lane!

DAK

18-08-2004, 09:18 AM

Lane4 did Team GB put in an appeal for Edmond? It seems rather controversial this dolphin kick however the Japanese next to him definately did it and the commentators seem to think they dq'd the wrong lane!

Wouldn't take too much stock from what the commentators say, they are innaccurate about so many things it is unreal.

From what I hear Edmond has been renowned for butterfly kicks in Brs over the last few years (or longer). Doesn't change the fact that the Japanese lad was very blatant! Effectivley they should both have been DQ'd.

lane4

18-08-2004, 10:27 AM

Clem1

18-08-2004, 10:57 AM

I don't think so. There was no point anyway as he missed the final regardless.
Yer, but im sure if they did appeal, they could prob. hav got more than half the ppl in te semis DQ'd.

mad4it

18-08-2004, 11:02 AM

I don't think so. There was no point anyway as he missed the final regardless.Oh yeh I guess so.

Good swim from Kirsty in her late-entry 200 Breaststroke, qualified in the final in 11th position in 2.29.78. A great opportunity and I hope she can make the final tonight, it will be tough but thats what it'll take.
A better swim from Mel in the 4x200 at 1.59, and the rest of the team (Karen,Caitlin & Jo) on 2.00. The team had a good battle with Australia on the final 50m and managed to secure lane 5 for the final tonight. I wonder whether they will take someone out to give Karen Legg a swim? Most of the other teams will probably change so they will really have to dig deep if they are to get even a bronze. Come on GB! :D

chris_lamb

18-08-2004, 11:48 AM

Yer, but im sure if they did appeal, they could prob. hav got more than half the ppl in te semis DQ'd.

That is quite unlikely. Appealing against a disqualification is relatively straight forward. Appealing against a decision not to disqualify is much more difficult.

Appeals come down to one thing: interpretation of the rules. You can't appeal against a matter of fact - the referee's decision on this is final. So:

Fact: There was a downward dolphin kick following the turn.
Interpreation: This is a breach of the technical rules so the swimmer should be disqualified.

You could not appeal about whether or not the action was performed, only against whether or not it was a breach of the rules.

All swimmers are assumed to have complied with the rules unless the referee is sure that they have done something to breach them. This certainty is normally arrived at by a judge reporting something. If the referee was certain that a swimmer broke the rules then they would have been disqualified. The fact that they weren't implies that the referee was not certain a rule had been broken. You cannot introduce new factual evidence in an appeal, so there is nothing that can be done to make the referee more certain.

Hopefully this makes some sort of sense...

Natasha

18-08-2004, 12:23 PM

Is it true that Mel Marshall pulled out of the 100m free? (Could not watch heats due to shockingly long lie in)

mad4it

18-08-2004, 12:43 PM

Mel Marshall dropped the 100 free so she could perform for the team in the 4x200

As I said earlier.

matt

18-08-2004, 01:09 PM

lozswimmer

18-08-2004, 01:24 PM

Is it true that Mel Marshall pulled out of the 100m free? (Could not watch heats due to shockingly long lie in)
its a shame though cos they wernt particularly fast times and she would probably have made the semi's and even the finals. it did pay off tho, beating the aussies in the 4x200.... hope they medal later.

Clem1

18-08-2004, 04:24 PM

That is quite unlikely. Appealing against a disqualification is relatively straight forward. Appealing against a decision not to disqualify is much more difficult.

Appeals come down to one thing: interpretation of the rules. You can't appeal against a matter of fact - the referee's decision on this is final. So:

Fact: There was a downward dolphin kick following the turn.
Interpreation: This is a breach of the technical rules so the swimmer should be disqualified.

You could not appeal about whether or not the action was performed, only against whether or not it was a breach of the rules.

All swimmers are assumed to have complied with the rules unless the referee is sure that they have done something to breach them. This certainty is normally arrived at by a judge reporting something. If the referee was certain that a swimmer broke the rules then they would have been disqualified. The fact that they weren't implies that the referee was not certain a rule had been broken. You cannot introduce new factual evidence in an appeal, so there is nothing that can be done to make the referee more certain.

Hopefully this makes some sort of sense...
Chill out mate. I dont need an explination of the proceedure, just tryin 2 make the point that almost every 1 in there was in breach of the rules.

Katie

18-08-2004, 06:32 PM

Yesterday whilst watching the female team event in the Gymnastics the commentator made a comment that made me laugh. It was something like this.

"The USA team who are receiving the silver medal have to stand back and watch just like the men did because they were beaten by a better team"

Personally I thought that was obvious.
I heard that too Matt, it was classic. Something along the lines of (in the women's 100 fly) "She's swum 50m, she now has to do a turn and swim another 50m". Just for those unfamiliar with swimming.... and maths!! :)

James Goddard is looking amazing!!! What great swims! Lets hope he can manage it in the final tomorrow. He seems to be one of those that doesn't get mentioned much, and then sneaks up and swims brilliantly, like at the Commonwealths.

Ladies 4 x 200 was great, such a shame we missed out on a medal. Karen Pickering swam a brilliant leg I thought. Was that a British record? Any idea of splits anyone?

Robin Francis's goggles??!!!! WHY WOULD YOU NOT BRING SPARES??? It's the olympic semi for goodness' sake!!! Sorry, just thought I'd rant quickly.

I thought Leisel Jones looked pretty tired in the 200 breast, in general the times were pretty slow, weren't they?

I really think Steve Parry's bronze y'day has boosted the team, let's hope we're on for another one tomorrow. Fingers crossed!!! :D

Katie

18-08-2004, 06:33 PM

Have just found splits:

MARSHALL Melanie 0.72 27.81 57.94 1:28.62 1:59.39 (2) 1:59.39
LEE Georgina 0.17 27.92 58.08 1:29.47 2:00.50 (5) 3:59.89
McCLATCHEY Caitlin 0.18 28.52 58.99 1:30.04 2:00.48 (5) 6:00.37
PICKERING Karen 0.18 27.32 57.17 1:27.80 1:58.74 (5) 7:59.11

Hope that makes some sense.
Natalie Coughlin's lead off would have won the 200 free by over a second!!!!! Also Petria Thomas's 4th leg for Aus, 1.57.20, v impressive!

lozswimmer

18-08-2004, 06:37 PM

http://www.athens2004.com/en/SwimmingWomen/results?rsc=SWW412101&frag=SWW412101_C73B1

splits for the womens 4x200
looks like karen did the fastest split!!!

Natasha

18-08-2004, 06:42 PM

You know how Britain haven't been swimming that well, but we are slowly getting better as the days go on? Well we thought that possible they haven't been tapering enough, and I think that some things that Melanie Marshall said have confirmed that. She said that 'it's been a tough past five weeks' and about the next Olympics 'hopefully we'll be more rested'.

Could it be that Bill Sweetenham has been working them too hard and that they haven't had a long enough taper?

Katie

18-08-2004, 06:46 PM

I can't believe I forgot to mention Jodie Henry!! 53.5!!! New World Record in the 100 free. Amazing! It took ages for everyone to realise though! What a great swim.

matt

18-08-2004, 06:52 PM

Katie, I have another one for you.........................100 fr semis (women)

'This is the 100free which means you have to race......fast'

that made me chuckle

glen_75

18-08-2004, 07:54 PM

Great swim by Jodie. What the heck happened to Lenton and Welsh?

I had a feeling about Goddard. He's much younger than Gregor and he wasn't far behind him at trials. He looks like he may go at least one better than Stephen tomorrow.

Top10ranking

18-08-2004, 08:20 PM

it will be very close

selkie

18-08-2004, 08:27 PM

I did a bit of a happy dance when I heard the women's 4x200. Not onlyy a US win, but more importantly for the sport, the last of the disgraceful DDR drug-enhanced records has been erased from the books.

lozswimmer

18-08-2004, 09:27 PM

I had a feeling about Goddard. He's much younger than Gregor and he wasn't far behind him at trials. He looks like he may go at least one better than Stephen tomorrow.

fingers crossed. i reckon he can do it too if he goes out like anything like he did in the heats and semi's.

glen_75

19-08-2004, 01:41 AM

The UK squad is faring much better than Canadian team. Expectations weren't too high but I would've hoped for more pb's. Brittany Reimer in the 800 is the last hope now. She did well in the 200. Also, Cooke is looking good in the 400 and with people like Yamada and Stockbauer off their best there could be some room on the podium for another UK medal if she brings the goods.

The ROCK

19-08-2004, 05:33 AM

sub24

19-08-2004, 05:45 AM

very interesting all of these posts. I am lucky to be in the stands too lane 4. Noticing many of the things that have been posted. I have been lucky enough to talk to many parents too. Of particular interest was Brent Hayden's Dad. I have a feeling that there will be some changes in Cdn swimming soon. The Brits have the best still to come!

regarding the strange performances, fast/slow, etc. This is the Olympics, strange things happen. It is the only competition that it seems to. who'd have thought Popov wouldn't make the final in 100fr after winning in Barcelona, who'd have thought that Lenton wouldn't make the final after setting the WR in the aussie trials? hansen sets two WR and gets no gold.

My point? Taper or no taper, coach and swimmer needs to get ready for stress. if you don't you will fail. Compare relay times to individual swims (for those lucky enough to get both). generally a much wider difference than normal.

But that's all from me, my chickens ain't hatched yet.

londoner62

19-08-2004, 05:55 PM

We don't want to wait until next time Mel, we expected the results now, in 2004!
I doubt there will be any disagreement with your opinion this time.

Top10ranking

19-08-2004, 07:46 PM

who will win the 100fly final?

Natasha

19-08-2004, 08:55 PM

Crocker.

glen_75

19-08-2004, 09:04 PM

Crocker was ill to start the meet and still looked sluggish in the prelims to me. It could be a fortuitious turn of events for Phelps. Serdinov looked very nice in his semi-too.

glen_75

19-08-2004, 09:05 PM

Cooke did an excellent qualifying swim with a good lane for tomorrow. If she's in the thick of it the last 100 meters I think she'll medal.

Natasha

19-08-2004, 09:05 PM

Crocker was ill to start the meet and still looked sluggish in the prelims to me. It could be a fortuitious turn of events for Phelps. Serdinov looked very nice in his semi-too.

You have a point!

Top10ranking

19-08-2004, 09:08 PM

i didn't think katie sexton would make it and not a good comment by sharron either. Hope she does well tomorrow to prove her wrong

Katie

20-08-2004, 08:16 AM

i didn't think katie sexton would make it and not a good comment by sharron either. Hope she does well tomorrow to prove her wrong
Sorry, what did Shazza say about Katy?

Did anyone see our girl gymnasts yesterday? I'm sure they're extremely good but the Americans and Romanians make us look... welll... not the most graceful. OUCH when Beth Tweddle fell off the beam, she had a really nasty bruise on her knee. :(

lozswimmer

20-08-2004, 09:30 AM

good swim from davies this morning in the 1500m
new british record!
:-D

Top10ranking

20-08-2004, 10:05 AM

Sorry, what did Shazza say about Katy?

Did anyone see our girl gymnasts yesterday? I'm sure they're extremely good but the Americans and Romanians make us look... welll... not the most graceful. OUCH when Beth Tweddle fell off the beam, she had a really nasty bruise on her knee. :(

something about not being positive and she only thinks that katie will go about a second quicker in the final from the semi final time :(

Chris

20-08-2004, 10:56 AM

good swim from davies this morning in the 1500m
new british record!
:-D
The boy looked really really comfortable.

Lets hope that his youth & confidence will allow him to swim his own race and not get caught up the Grant Hackett hype .......

14:30 for Hackett anyone ????

mad4it

20-08-2004, 11:11 AM

Did anyone see our girl gymnasts yesterday? I'm sure they're extremely good but the Americans and Romanians make us look... welll... not the most graceful. OUCH when Beth Tweddle fell off the beam, she had a really nasty bruise on her knee.
Yes, did look a bit awful for her. Carly Patterson tho just has amazing finesse, a shame for Khorkina I really wanted her to get it but her sportsmanship was outstanding at the end and she really seemed pleased to just be there and get Silver.

Wow David Davies! Super swim, Hackett looked very poor this morning an especially with his little sprint at the end to make sure he qualified, I don't think he was really expecting anyone to beat him and Davies has probably given him something to think about.

14:30 for Hackett anyone ????No Chance. Try 14.50 if he is lucky.

Natasha

20-08-2004, 11:13 AM

I mean - I think Hackett will win, he's unbelievable in 1500m, I think he took his heat really easily. But I know Davies has it in him to put up a great swim.

Tara

20-08-2004, 12:57 PM

No Chance. Try 14.50 if he is lucky.

I think he will still swim sub 14.40, but I could be wrong! :cool:

londoner62

20-08-2004, 01:55 PM

good swim from davies this morning in the 1500m
new british record!
:-D
The only drawback was Auntie Beeb only showed the last couple of hundred meters. As he is lane 4 for the final, I hope we get some decent underwater coverage to watch his stroke.

Chris

20-08-2004, 02:14 PM

I think he will still swim sub 14.40, but I could be wrong! :cool:
I'd put a little money on that I think .....

Meiri

20-08-2004, 02:52 PM

I think Grant will definetly swim under 14:50, but it will be far more difficult to swim under 14:40, not even mentioning 14:30.
If he does swim under 14:30, i think it will be the best swimming performance ever, and it will take a long long time before someone gets even near that kind of time. that would be simply amazing!

Pete

20-08-2004, 02:58 PM

:cry: Yet again live swimming coverage gets cut today on BBC. Earlier in the week, morning coverage was missing due to Equestrian boredom and had to go to the crazy commentry of Eurosport. This morning the athletics took preference. Swimming not even available interactive most of the week. :shocking: Suppose we mustn't complain too much; some sports have had much less coverage. Let's hope the finals are live tonight.

mad4it

20-08-2004, 06:21 PM

The BBC have been OK up until today and now I'm just fuming :shocking: from watching the evening session. Swimming only gets shown when there is nothing else on and then as soon as Athletics comes on they flash in and flash out, I mean they didn't even have the decency to show the whole of Becky's race tonight or an interview, which she will have had, with Sharon.

Katy Sexton's swim this evening was quite disappointing, 2.12.11 which is like +3% on last year's performance really makes you wonder what she has been doing for the past 5weeks. And such a negative attitude aswell which Sharon pointed out earlier.
Good swim from Michael Phelps tho to win the 100 Fly in the last stroke! Crocker must be gutted but still an amazing victory for Phelps, and surprisingly Sharon managed to get an interview with him...which to annoy me more was shown! aaarrgh!
I think Andy & Adrian have been right tho if the whole Spitz record thing hadn't been blown out of proportion then we would be TOTALLY worshiping the groun Phelps is walking on, 5 Gold 2 Bronze from 7 swims so far and the possibility of another tomorrow night in the 4x100 Medley is outstanding and really can't be looked over by anyone. Great guy. :D
Tough luck for Alison tonight finishing 12th in the 50 Free, I really wanted her to make the final and do well however I guess like she said it wasn't meant to be. Hopefully she won't stop swimming alltogether altho if she does maybe we will see some little VDM/Sheppard feet running about... ;) Whatever they decide to do I wish them all the best. :king:

glen_75

20-08-2004, 06:55 PM

I think he will still swim sub 14.40, but I could be wrong! :cool:
You're both wrong. He'll swim between 14:40 and 14:50. :p

Natasha

20-08-2004, 07:04 PM

geochuck

20-08-2004, 09:56 PM

lane4

20-08-2004, 10:19 PM

We know the Canadians are not winning Medal wise, are the Brits doing any better. Has anyone totaled the first 8 place finishes. I am not dissapointed in the Canadian swimmers, I am dissapointed in the Canadian system.

George Park
The Brits have been bad but the Canadians have been quite awful. This is surely their worst and most embarrassing performance at an Olympics ever!?

Britain has had 16 final placings: 10 male (8 individual, 2 relay) and 6 female (3 individual, 3 relay) but I haven't added it up for Canada. I expect it would be worse that the Brits though.

glen_75

21-08-2004, 12:19 AM

We know the Canadians are not winning Medal wise, are the Brits doing any better. Has anyone totaled the first 8 place finishes. I am not dissapointed in the Canadian swimmers, I am dissapointed in the Canadian system.

I'm not disappointed so much in not getting a medal as I am in the very poor times. Reimer was a whopping 13 sec off her pb from worlds.

BTW, good riddance to Dave Johnson.

glen_75

21-08-2004, 12:23 AM

The Brits have been bad but the Canadians have been quite awful. This is surely their worst and most embarrassing performance at an Olympics ever!?

Britain has had 16 final placings: 10 male (8 individual, 2 relay) and 6 female (3 individual, 3 relay) but I haven't added it up for Canada. I expect it would be worse that the Brits though.

I'd say we're doing better than Germany. Expectations wise. They are supposed to a European powerhouse? We weren't expected to be on the podium. What has happened to the German women?

Japan are having the best meet relative to expectations. Poland have impressed too.

selkie

21-08-2004, 12:48 AM

It is nice to see Japan swimming so well, especially since the last couple of Games they've seemed to go into the meet with excellent times and high expectations, and then swim poorly. Be interesting to see if and how they've changed any elite swimmer management plans because the Big Meet performance has been better than expected. (though I'm wondering if Sachiko Yamada is healthy since she should have won the 800 based on spring times)

Steve

21-08-2004, 01:34 AM

I just hope for Davies' sake that his heat swim means he is able to swim 14:50ish in the final, not that he's peaked too early. I haven't seen his swim (Aussie TV didn't cover it siece there were no Aussies in it) but I understand from Lane4 that he looked pretty good and controlled so fingers crossed!

geochuck

21-08-2004, 01:35 AM

I'm not disappointed so much in not getting a medal as I am in the very poor times. Reimer was a whopping 13 sec off her pb from worlds.

BTW, good riddance to Dave Johnson.

I have been on THE GET RID of Dave Johnson for 8 years.

George

Sean

21-08-2004, 05:00 AM

Hackett will still win tonight but I believe 14.30 will be out of his reach. He was suprised by the speed of the heats and with Davies in lane 4 with a good heat time you would hope that the Brits will pick up their second medal. But as has been seen in many of these finals, qualifying means nothing when you come to the pressure of the final.

I think Hackett will go out hard tonight and try to break a few of the younger less experienced swimmers so lets hope that some of them can stay with him as I think he might be a bit rocked if that happens, and also has the capability of 'bottling it' if things don't go his way, but to be honest I can't see anyone being anywhere near him come the finish of tonights race!

Time will tell :)

matt

21-08-2004, 05:28 PM

I think he will still swim sub 14.40, but I could be wrong! :cool:

And yes you were

lozswimmer

21-08-2004, 05:57 PM

great swim from davies!
smashed the british record!
only 19 too!!!!
hackett looked so releived that he'd won though. i thought he'd win it by way more than that!

Natasha

21-08-2004, 06:04 PM

Yeah - I think Hackett found that a hard swim. But I'm so happy for Davies! A PB by twelve seconds and a European one by five! And he's one of the only four men to go under 14:50!

mad4it

21-08-2004, 07:43 PM

Superb swim from Davies on the final night of the Olympic Swimming Competition, to go under 14.50 is amazing and a European Record too from 1991/2(?) also is pretty damn good! Good swim also from Graeme altho 15.09 is well off his PB I think he did well making the final. :)
Disappointing for both relays tho, does anyone in Athens know what the women's team was dq'd for? We reckon here that it was the Sexton/Balfour takeover, but, oh no just checked it seems it was Kathryn Evans' takeover -0.05 taken from www.athens2004.com (http://www.athens2004.com/en/SwimmingWomen/results?rsc=SWW451101&frag=SWW451101_C73B1).

Just wanted to mention the amazing record achieved by Mr Michael Phelps. 8 Medals in One Olympics which equals the record by the Russian Gymnast. Great sportsmanship to let Crocker swim in the final and what a race they had! A pretty impressive team! :)

So after all the ups-and-downs of the past 7 days how are we all reflecting on the performance of Team GB?
Bill said 2 medals and thats what we got, OK so not in the events he expected! I reckon the real test is Beijing 2008 when his system has been running for slightly longer and that athletes at the Olympics won't have doubts or previous training methods to look back on, it will be the way it has always been and not some big experiment.

I think it's been a great olympics, very controversial and interesting to watch and some of the guys from all the teams have done an awesome stuff!
In Sydney it was Inge De Brujin and Ian Thorpe who were seen as the Queen & King of the pool, this year?

For me: Phelps and Henry.

:D :D :D

glen_75

21-08-2004, 09:44 PM

Wow what a 1500 race!! Congratulations to David. How many here thought he would go that fast? :shocking:

Some notable relay splits:

Thomas 56.67 on fly (overtook Jenny by 2sec)
Peirsol 53.45 on back (new WR)
Coughlin 59.68 on back (new OR)
Conrad 47.46 on free (Wow!)

glen_75

21-08-2004, 09:48 PM

In Sydney it was Inge De Brujin and Ian Thorpe who were seen as the Queen & King of the pool, this year?

For me: Phelps and Henry.

:D :D :D

Men:
1. Phelps
2. Thorpe
3. Peirsol
4. Kitajima
5. VdH

Women
1. Henry
2. Klochkova
3. Coughlin
4. Oytlia J.
5. Manaudou/Coventry/Thomas

Steve

22-08-2004, 01:49 AM

Yeah - I think Hackett found that a hard swim. But I'm so happy for Davies! A PB by twelve seconds and a European one by five! And he's one of the only four men to go under 14:50!
Yeah quite an amazing race with records galore - Jorg Hoffman's old European Record dated back to 1991, so Davies smashed that, plus Jensen broke the US Record from 2000, Hackett broke the Olympic record from 1992, and Prilukov broke Slanikov's Russian record from 1983! I bet if you had told him beforehand he'd swim 14:52 and not win a medal he'd have laughed.

backerbabe

22-08-2004, 03:05 AM

wow... that was an incredible Olympics... (although that cannot be said for all countries/people... where is Canada???) and i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but GB did awful! you know though, i dont think it had anything to do with the swimmers themselves, but the admin... Bill Sweetenam sounds like a right plonker, and i am sure he must have done something, ie intervened in their training etc, to make them swim so poor. Mel Marshall and Katy Sexton??? what happneed. Katy has always been a big meet swimmer and always manages to do well under pressure, so for her to swim so far outside her best cannot be blamed on her, but on the coaching staff...
AND.. for him to make the swimmers leave the olympic village right after the swimming finished is disgraceful... this is the Olympic Games for christs sake, not nationals... they have worked their entire lives to relish in this moment, and he is making them go back to Stockport and swim at shortcourse nationals... and the article about him saying that if they wanted to stay in the village, then he would assume they were retiring?!?!?! what is his problem?? god it makes me so mad, i can only imagine what the swimmers feel like...

but on a lighter note - some outstanding performances:
Michael Phelps - what can you say!
Ian Thorpe - really stepped up to the challenge
Grant Hackett - obviously sick and weak from a chest infection but still proved it wil take a lot to beat him
David Davies and Larsen Jensen - wow!
Kaitlin Sandeno and Kirsty Coventry - gold, silver and bronze each! everyone focused on Phelps and they stood out!
Petria Thomas and Jodie Henry - it seemed as though the ozzies struggled in individual events, but these 2 showed sometihng special!
... there are so many more
oh yeah and Steve Parry - what a sweetheart, so glad he did well!

anyway, the swimming is over for another 4 years, i wonder what suprises hold for us until then!!!
:)

selkie

22-08-2004, 04:48 AM

Kirsty Coventry's Olympics diary:

http://www.auburntigers.com/page.cfm?doc_id=7524

Unofrtunately, she hasn't posted an entry for the 200 back finals yet. She comes across as a kind, caring person and it's been fun to see how far she's come the past two years.

glen_75

22-08-2004, 06:19 AM

I've never been sold on Sweetenham. I think it's better not to micromanage. I think the main focus should be on funding and facilities. Let the swimmers and coaches do their thing. Many elite swimmers can't even name their national team director in the US. Leave the team approach for international meets. The tough talk and boot camp mentality has done little.
If his red-blooded personality secured more funding and world class facilities it would be different. If you measure by results the man does not impress.
I'm not sure that the UK would not have done as well or better without him.
It is an improvement by 2 medals but that's not saying much. I think people are fooling themselves if they think British swimming needs some sort of motivational guru at the helm.

Dreama

22-08-2004, 09:17 AM

You lot make me so mad...

Natasha

22-08-2004, 12:58 PM

i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but GB did awful! you know though, i dont think it had anything to do with the swimmers themselves, but the admin... Bill Sweetenam sounds like a right plonker, and i am sure he must have done something, ie intervened in their training etc, to make them swim so poor. Mel Marshall and Katy Sexton??? what happneed. Katy has always been a big meet swimmer and always manages to do well under pressure, so for her to swim so far outside her best cannot be blamed on her, but on the coaching staff...
AND.. for him to make the swimmers leave the olympic village right after the swimming finished is disgraceful... this is the Olympic Games for christs sake, not nationals... they have worked their entire lives to relish in this moment, and he is making them go back to Stockport and swim at shortcourse nationals... and the article about him saying that if they wanted to stay in the village, then he would assume they were retiring?!?!?! what is his problem?? god it makes me so mad, i can only imagine what the swimmers feel like...

I agree with some of the things that Sweetenham thinks. But I also disagree with a lot too. Apparently, if the swimmers don't do the National Shortcourse Championships then they lose their funding. And I really agree with you when you say that the fact they arent allowed to stay behind in the Olympic village or go to the closing ceremony is disgraceful. You're right - for some of them this will have been a once in a lifetime experience, and even if isn't it is still a completely amazing experience and they just arrived there swam, and left without anytime to relax and unwind. I think that Sweetenham owes them that.

Natasha

22-08-2004, 01:01 PM

You lot make me so mad...

Why???

selkie

22-08-2004, 02:38 PM

I've never been sold on Sweetenham. I think it's better not to micromanage. I think the main focus should be on funding and facilities. Let the swimmers and coaches do their thing. Many elite swimmers can't even name their national team director in the US. Leave the team approach for international meets. The tough talk and boot camp mentality has done little. The more I hear of Sweetenham, the more I appreciate the hands-off approach of the US. Boot camp mentality would have driven Natalie Coughlin from the sport entirely around 2000. And we might not have had Gary Hall's ambitious experiment- The Race Club, which had, IMO, a ton of success in Athens. No one saying there is one unified coaching theory, and the sprinters know to find their way to Mike Bottom's pool, while ambitous distance swimmers headed to Jon Urbanchek at U of Michigan. (here's hoping Urbanchek does a lot of seminars and such in his semi-retirement)

backerbabe

22-08-2004, 10:49 PM

oh im so happy Grant won! he seems so nice, and he's soooo hot! (well, he looks better with hair! haha)
and aaron piersol swam great, he is hot too... you didnt think the only reason i watched swimming was for the times did you?!?!

mad4it

23-08-2004, 08:36 AM

In Sydney it was Inge De Brujin and Ian Thorpe who were seen as the Queen & King of the pool, this year?

For me: Phelps and Henry.
I've changed my mind. After looking at the stats my Queen of the Pool in Yana Klochkova for successfully winning the 200 & 400 IM in Sydney and then again in Athens! What a star! :D

damrite_53

23-08-2004, 08:36 PM

couldnt agree more

Bazza

24-08-2004, 10:01 AM

I'd say we're doing better than Germany. Expectations wise. They are supposed to a European powerhouse? We weren't expected to be on the podium. What has happened to the German women?

Japan are having the best meet relative to expectations. Poland have impressed too.

Japan had a very good meet - most improved team in terms of medals and medal table position.

Germany are probably overrated. They actually did better here than in Sydney and can you believe they haven't won a gold medal since Barcelona?!

Canada are hardly a powerhouse in swimming but they were medal-less for the first time in a long time - the equivalent of our Sydney??

I wouldn't say Poland have particularly impressed as such, it was only one swimmer!

One thing about Athens - I believe more countries than ever before won a medal in Athens (20), including the likes of Zimbabwe, Trinidad & Tobago, Argentina, Croatia, South Africa and Poland. Yet USA still won 28 out of 97 medals and Australia 15. I think it is the likes of Russia (I guess they have broken down and if you gave them Ukraines medals then it is less significant), Germany and China are the ones losing out, USA have managed to maintain their stranglehold and Australia have improved their performance every time since 1988. It looks like these are the people we need to learn from.

Bazza

24-08-2004, 10:14 AM

Bazza

24-08-2004, 10:15 AM

I'll be thinking of you Crawler when we're rowing past your crew in the eights. :p

Ah, we only care about the four anyway! :p

Bazza

24-08-2004, 10:32 AM

Only 4 individual British records at the meet and none by women. Very disappointing, but were our expectations too high?

Lots of points raised in another thread but why didn't we swim PBs?
Wouldn't many PBs and no medals be better than what we saw?
So why didn't we swim fast? Is it because we peaked in April? Is it because we weren't the best prepared team after all? Is it because we weren't strong enough mentally, and if so is that because Bill built the Olympics up so much we were scared of it?

As expected, Bill's conservative press statement about 2 medals being expected and the age old argument about facilities to fall back on means we can play down the disappointment but really he has to be less than pleased to say the least! Oh and O loved the classic "Rome wasn't built in a day" quote!

I have to say though I can't help feeling we missed out on agreat opportunity for the sport. Once a year the Olympc Games overshadows the day to day sports of football, rugby, cricket, etc and sports like swimming have a chance to steal the headlines. Unfortunately we missed out on all the positive press sports like rowing, sailing, cycling and even badminton are currently enjoying, and despite Bill's best efforts, the press know we had a great chance to win alot more than 2 medals and that this represents a poor return.

Apparently Bill has decided to stay on because he was promised we would get 8 more 50m pools in those 4 years and double the current number (22) in 10, but there are alot of people out there who fail to see the benefit in building all these pools at such a cost, and I can see why.

Sean

25-08-2004, 03:54 AM

Apparently Bill has decided to stay on because he was promised we would get 8 more 50m pools in those 4 years and double the current number (22) in 10, but there are alot of people out there who fail to see the benefit in building all these pools at such a cost, and I can see why.

I totally agree. Why does everyone in Britain think that more 50m pools will help you. For instance will any of them be outdoors - One of the problems may have been that the pool was outdoors - not many British swimmers would have trained in an outdoor 50m pool(poor excuse for poor swims anyway!). I doubt very much that anyone in their right mind would want to train in an outdoor 50m pool in Britain. I don't think more 50m pools(indoor or otherwise) is the answer.

The answer is more along the lines of amount of pool time for clubs in the pools you currently have. Maybe more pools are needed but why spend all that money on 50m pools! A couple more wouldn't go a miss but 22. Madness :devil:

matt

25-08-2004, 01:14 PM

Did anyone read what Sharon Davies said in the Daily mail(I think) today?
Well anyway it was another thing that made me laugh...........................it said something along the lines of

'I don't mind men looking at my breasts, it is helping to promote swimming.'

SPNRT50

25-08-2004, 06:22 PM

http://home.datacomm.ch/marco.fernando/fla/bozzetto/olympics.swf

Phil Tanner

26-08-2004, 10:29 AM

Had the totally weird experience of coming home from holiday this morning with only a hazy grasp of what happened in the pool after the first two days, and catching up days late.

I've been a Sweetenham supporter but I have to say the only construction you can put on the way things have turned out is that he has failed.

But David Davies! Wow!

Natasha

26-08-2004, 07:55 PM

Nicholas

27-08-2004, 09:27 AM

Just had a brief look at some of the times on the BBC website, did anyone see the breaststroke 100m? I noticed Darren Mew had the 2nd fastest time of the entire event (in the semis) but he could only manage something like 5th in the final... did this happen to other swimmers? I don't get it :confused:

Bazza

27-08-2004, 11:07 AM

I've been a Sweetenham supporter but I have to say the only construction you can put on the way things have turned out is that he has failed.

Or has he? Although our high expectations weren't met, we did improve a fair bit from Sydney. Who is to say without Bill we would have done so well? We might even have done worse than Sydney (if that is possibly imaginable!).

Phil Tanner

27-08-2004, 11:31 AM

I'm calling it a coaching failure because too many swims didn't match times at the trials. Three years plus of success followed by three months' failure might be a better way of putting it, but we have had it rammed down our throats that only the Olympics really count and everything else is geared to that, so BS has to be judged on that.

I know the pressure is extreme but that goes for every team there. I'm happy to be corrected if it was generally the case across major swimming nations that the majority of their best bets on paper swam well outside potential when the chips were down.

Natasha

27-08-2004, 03:19 PM

I think that yes, Sweetenham has to have been doing something right for the past few years to get the success that we have been having up until the Olympics. But I think he just needs to stand up and say he did something wrong at the Olmpics - but he won't ever admit that he's wrong.

Pete

28-08-2004, 12:08 AM

Four years for our Bill to succeed in the next Olympics. Can I suggest he visits swimming at grass roots so that the talent is spotted early rather than looking at National Age Group Champs. results where many of the swimmers will be burnt out training to their max at 13-15. So much talent goes unidentified because the ASA infrastructure never visits the small clubs at grass roots, where talent is there but seldom nurtured. Is'nt it about time the enormous revenue generated by clubs was recognised by visits by top coaches or talent spotters. I wonder what James Gibson would be achieving if he had been noticed earlier? :devil:
Just raising this as discussion!

GettingFaster

28-08-2004, 09:34 AM

Excellent question, Pete. Worthy of its own separate thread, perhaps?

In Billie's defense he has been known to send his oppo John Atkinson out to grass roots clubs - we had a couple of visits from him last term and he came up with some very good action points to work on. Not too sure whether he looked at the younger swimmers though, which is what I think you're getting at. I think he mainly just concentrated on the top squads, who are the swimmers who generally have been to NAGS anyway. Could be wrong though, I'm sure someone else from the club will correct me if I am.

Pete

28-08-2004, 09:48 AM

Glad to hear some clubs got a visit, they obviously had certain swimmers to check up on but what about all the small clubs where so many swimmers start out. They do all their Swim 21 stuff which is very time consuming but are rather neglected because they don't at the time have a ranked swimmer(s).

Phil Tanner

28-08-2004, 10:06 AM

To be fair, British Swimming does send coaches out to clubs - we have had several very welcome visits from one.

I went to one of the talks by the very impressive Chelsea Warr at nationals and it's clear they are rethinking the talent ID thing, quote rightly IMHO. If I understood correctly, the new scheme will include bringing the top age groupers together once a month at Loughborough and times at nationals just qualify you to go forward for possible selection.

I know it's an inexact science, but my guess would be that the return on the initial WCS intake hasn't really been that great - in terms of the initial selection criteria overestimating the abilities of some and underestimating others.

From what I remember of the names on the southern half of the WCS programme two years ago, some have amply justified selection and a number (daughter included) are still performing respectably but are well short of the real deal, but others barely made it to nationals and I know of at least one who has packed swimming in completely.

On the other hand, I can think of one at least one boy and one girl who were on WCS in 2002 rather than Potential whose outstanding performances suggest their potential at age 13 was underestimated, and several who were overlooked two years ago who are now out-performing some who were picked.

Incidentally, as we have now had BAGCATS for three years is there any official pronouncement on whether it has met its objectives?

Bazza

31-08-2004, 09:26 AM

Well Bill has defended Team GBs performance in Athens saying expectations were too high and the team did well, etc. Apparently it's not possible to improve THAT much in four years. He also points to British swimmings most successful four year period since Sydney.

Nobody is doubting we have come along way in a short time, I think the frustration was being unable to turn high rankings into medals and finals. We had 4 swimmers in 5 events who had posted times equivalent to the top 3 in the world 2003, and according to those rankings were entitled to expect 5 medals (3 silver 2 bronze) and a further 13 individual finals making 18 in total. Instead we had 2 bronze medals and 11 individual finals. So if our swimmers were dropping down the rankings whose were climbing up, and why weren't ours climbing higher, especially considering the sole focus of the last 4 years has been Athens? How do we get our swimmers to climb the rankings and post the fast times when it matters?? Is trials 3-4 weeks before the Games the answer? Should we try that before a major champs such as worlds next year to see how well it works? Should we put less pressure on the swimmers to peak for trials so they can peak at the Games??

Incidentally out of those 18 swims, only 4 times were improved upon at the games themselves, and two of these led to medals (the other two were Simon Burnett and Graeme Smith in the 1500, though his ranked time of 15:11 was some way off his best), with Mel Marshall withdrawing from the 100 free.

Only 9 out of the 17 ranked in the top 8 actually made finals, is this good enough? Is it not fair to expect at least the same number to make finals or nearly the same, with someone improving their position for everyone who underperforms??

lozswimmer

31-08-2004, 08:15 PM

Is trials 3-4 weeks before the Games the answer? Should we try that before a major champs such as worlds next year to see how well it works?

i think that is a good idea because if theyre on form for the trials they're likely to be for the games too. And it seems to work for the americans...

Katie

31-08-2004, 09:23 PM

I hear the Commonwealth Trials are to be held next year in August. As the Games themselves are in March, I would say this doesn't seem like the best idea ever. An awful lot can change in 6 months.

matt

31-08-2004, 09:47 PM

Damn it Kaci, Commonwealths are really close!

Bazza

01-09-2004, 10:26 AM

i think that is a good idea because if theyre on form for the trials they're likely to be for the games too. And it seems to work for the americans...

Well saying that, some US swimmers who were on fire at Trials disappointed at the games themselves, including Brendan Hansen who broke both breaststroke world records but went ome without a gold medal (individual).

Also consider that Australia had their trials at a similar time to us. Does anyone know when Japan had their trials??

Katie

01-09-2004, 12:36 PM

The Japanese trials weren't that long after ours: 20th to the 25th of April according to swimnews.

swimgurl

01-09-2004, 03:23 PM

it shouldnt really matter when the trials are, the swimmers know that they are going to the most important competetion of their lives and they should be fully prepared for them, i think that there was to much hype on the british squad to live up 2 expectations and the pressure was oviously to much for some of them to deal with. i dont think that it can be said that having the trials right before the competetion would be better because surly having the trials earlier will enable the swimmers to prepare themselves mentally and physically? but then this wasnt proved with the british squad...... :rolleyes:

Phil Tanner

01-09-2004, 03:35 PM

There's a poster up at work for BBC coverage of the games. Features three competitors in national kit - Matthew Pinsent, Paula Radcliffe and, er Ian Thorpe.

Set me wondering - all three would be instantly recognized by 90 per cent of the population, which is no doubt why they were chosen, but with Foster absent are there any British swimmers who'd be easily ID'd by the average viewer? Confess I''d struggle to put names to faces for some, and I'm sure I could name more UK track and field athletes from photos than swimmers.