Commie relays

[Paul]

I hear they may not be sending relay teams to the commie games. What are they playing at? Have they not taken a good look at the rankings....

[lane4]

Who did you hear this from?
Are these the same rankings that show England, Australia, Canada and South Africa ahead of Scotland as per usual at Commie Games?
As far as I know, Scotland will take relays if the combined total time of the fastest 4 swimmers is better or equivalent to the qualifying time laid down by SASA.

[Paul]

I heard it at the age groups in Sheffield. The rankings I mean are the Scottish rankings!!! If you look at the swimmers who would be selected for each team they are not half bad!!! They wold certainly beat the Welsh!!!! Even the Womens freestyle is improving rapidly.
However I believe the times set out for the team to achieve are a little unrealistic for Scotland. The games are in manchester, it won't be expensive, we should be following the lead of the great nations in swimming and sending as many swimmers as possible.

[lane4]

Its not hard to beat the Welsh of course!!!

Well the womens medley team has already qualified for the Games on their times from 2001 (of course they will have to repeat those times in 2002 but we expect that to happen no problem).

The mens medley team should qualify also as should mens 4 x 200 and maybe mens 4 x 100 free too. Womens free teams are a bit dodgy though, especially the 4 x 200 - who have we got that is any good in that event?! I challenge you to name them!?

However, I do agree with you to an extent that the Games are just down the road and we should send a big team. However, it is not up to SASA. It is up to the Commonwealth Games Council for Scotland and they will not allow SASA to send people who have absolutely no chance of making a medal and/or final at the Commonwealth level as their are people in other sports who could out perform such swimmers on a Commie level and thus warrant a place at the Games before sub-standard swimmers - whether these swimmers would benefit from the experience or not. Lots of people win Olympic medals without experience so we shouldnt need to send people to Commies in order to get experience for next time - by which time they have usually quit anyway!

And besides, the standards have been set and it is now up to the swimmers and coaches to rise to the challenge. So go out there and do the job Paul!

In Kuala Lumpur, SASA swam relays from who they had on the team at the time despite those relays not having qualified. They also took Ian Edmond for the relay only but let him do individual events when there. Other swimmers did similar.

[outside smoker]

Looks like Commie Games Council for Scotland need educating. How about 2 levels of times for seniors and up-and-coming juniors -like they are doing for Euro Short Course and the likes of Wales already do for CG.

[Paul]

Just from looking at the rankings I reckon :
How about :
4 x 100m free from Sheppherd, Martin, Nisbet, Abel, Hutt and McNeilly
4 x 200m free from Nisbet, Hamill, Hutt, McNeilly, Rennie and Jones

certainly better than at the last commonwealths, and good chance of a final. And who knows come commonwealths they may be swimming the time stated by the SASA!

[outside smoker]

I WANT us/Scotland to send as big a team as possible (as long as swimmers are good enough) but some of these don`t really cut the mustard (at the moment)in terms of Commonwealth Games.

Here`s to hoping for some big drops from the men and women in the coming year so we can have an even bigger team than previously.

[lane4]

Who's this Hutt chick?
The problem with up and coming juniors is that more frequently than not they never become first rate seniors.
What would be wrong is that if Scotland had representatives in any event while a faster swimmer sits at home watching the Games on TV. This has happened before and must not be allowed to happen again.

[outside smoker]

On closer inspection that suggested 4x200 team is so far out its depth at a Commonwealth Games that its scary.

Hutt = Tara Hutt a 1979 birthday from a club with code HVWS (what club is that?). For someone who is 21/22 it seems strange that she has not appeared at any Scottish meet or in any Scottish rankings that i can ever remember - or am i wrong on that point? Should this part of the discussion be moved to another topic?... say "FLAG OF CONVENIENCE"?

It is very disappointing that token Scots (I am not suggesting Tara Hutt is one at the moment) appear out of the woodwork every 4 years - especially when you get the case of the current Scottish Long Jump Champ, who represented us in 1994 NOT getting to go to Manchester because she is disallowed on some bizarre residency rule.

[Aussiebabe]

HVWS is Havant & waterlooville swimming club which as many of you will realise is about as far from scotland as is possible for a club to be!! Tara's competed at Hampshires and Southerns for years so I've no idea how she's on the Scotland ranking list!!!

[swimbabe]

I seem to remember someone telling me that Tara's pet gerbil has a Scottish half-cousin and thus that is how she can now swim for Scotland and naturally break Scottish records as well if good enough.

[outside smoker]

Is this confirmation of a last minute bid to make the Scotland team due to not making the England team? Or is it just a slgging match?

[Steve]

I used to swim with Tara a few years back (up until about 1995/96/97) when I swam at Havant and Waterlooville, which being, as Aussibabe mentioned, near Portsmouth is as far away from Scotland as you can get, without going into the west country. As for scottish qualification, I can't comment on any scottish relatives because I don't know(although she quite obviously doesn't qualify by residency! http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/wink.gif ) but I do know that she first talked about representing Scotland when I was still swimming with her i.e. possibly as much as 5 years ago, so probably not a last minute attempt.

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the UK swimming site

[This message has been edited by Steve Buckley (edited 01 September 2001).]

[Paul]

SWIMBABE :"Tara's pet gerbil has a Scottish half-cousin and thus that is how she can now swim for Scotland"

Does this really qualify you for a Scottish Team or have you just got your claws out...

[lane4]

From what I've seen in my time in swimming, if you want to swim for Scotland there is usually a way to make you eligible, no matter who you are. However, Scotland only compete once every 4 years and it aint in the meet that Bill S calls the ONLY meet that matters so it probably doesn't matter to some people who wears the St.Andrew's cross.

[Bazza]

Lets clear a few things up - Tara is 22 (not exactly an up and coming youngster?!) She has been a member of SASA for 3 years (i.e. since just after the last CG's. She qualifies through her Grandparents. I would suggest living 450 miles away from Glasgow/Edinburgh has something to do with her not ever competing in Scottish comp, though she has tried on occasions to get up there. To the best of my knowledge, she has appeared in Scottish rankings for the last two years, just maybe not quite as high as she is now. Also, barring a vested interest, how many people really examine outside the top ten of the scottish rankings three years out of 4? I suggest you haven't noticed the name because it hasn't mattered for three years whose 'a bit further down'! I also suggest the reason she is not a household name is beacuse whilst she has been of national standard for 4-5 years, she has only just started making finals in the last 12 months or so. Try checking out 100/200 Fc from CP or Norwich last month!

[Steve]

Barry Stewart is that you?!

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the UK swimming site

[lane4]

If Tara qualifies under the grandparent rule she can forget competing at the Commie Games for Scotland cos SASA scrapped the grandparent rule at their last AGM and it no longer applies. However, I'm sure there is still some other way of getting her in the team.

[James S]

Originally posted by bazzaroodoo:
I would suggest living 450 miles away from Glasgow/Edinburgh has something to do with her not ever competing in Scottish comp, though she has tried on occasions to get up there. !

So you are saying that Tara has been so unfortunate each year to miss the once a month rocket linking England to Scotland or has she just not made it through customs? I believe there are a number of Anglo-Scots who do manage to make an appearance in Scottish competitions. I am not making any comments about Tara's eligibility or her enthusiasm for swimming for Scotland. Just pointing out a weakness in your point bazaroodoo. For Scotland, I believe, you head north and keep going. http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/wink.gif

[Steve]

Originally posted by James S:
I believe there are a number of Anglo-Scots who do manage to make an appearance in Scottish competitions.

You make a fair point, but there is always the small matter of money that may prevent swimmers from regularly competing in competitions long distances away, regardless of whether it be Welsh swimmers living in England, Irish swimmers in Wales, Scottish Swimmers in England or English swimmers in Scotland etc.

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the UK swimming site

[This message has been edited by Steve Buckley (edited 02 September 2001).]

[outside smoker]

The excuse that its a long way etc etc is just not good enough for someone who has supposedly been interested in swimming for Scotland for several years - apparently been in the rankings, well not any that i can remember. And please dont suppose that people only look at Scottish Rankings every 4 years as that is bot insulting and highly incorrect. The only people that check them out once every 4 years are these last-minute-get-into-any-old-team-that-i-am-eligible-for IDIOTS!

As for not mattering who gets picked for the Commie Games - well it matters to me and bloody well better matter to anyone who is fortunate enough to be good enough to be picked!

I don`t care what country you represent - if you are not proud to represent them then don`t even think about accepting a place on a team! Otherwise you betray the efforts of your teammates and belittle the efforts of all the other swimmers who worked their butt off to make it and didnt!

[This message has been edited by outside smoker (edited 02 September 2001).]

[Steve]

Originally posted by outside smoker:
if you are not proud to represent them then don`t even think about accepting a place on a team

Hmm I think we're getting a bit off topic here, but here goes anyway. I don't think anyone is arguing that people should be proud to represent their country and I for one feel certan that whoever swims for Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland or Jamaica next year will do so.

However whilst people can continue to become elgigble (rightly or wrongly) by whatever means the SASA deem acceptable, be it grandparents, parents, birthplace, residency or hair colour then we will always end up in the same debate. Taking it out on individual swimmers acting within the rules will only serve to harm Scottish swimming in the long term, by making swimming for Scotland seem less attractive.

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the UK swimming site

[This message has been edited by Steve Buckley (edited 02 September 2001).]

[outside smoker]

Originally posted by lane4:
...However, Scotland only compete once every 4 years and it aint in the meet that Bill S calls the ONLY meet that matters so it probably doesn't matter to some people who wears the St.Andrew's cross.

THIS is what i meant about it matters who you swim for and being proud.

As for taking it out on individual swimmers - i have no problem with someone who has been intent on representing their country for some time ; I just have no time or respect for people who abuse/bend the rules to the detriment of others.

And the rule applies to ALL home nations NOT just Scotland.

[Steve]

Originally posted by outside smoker:
I just have no time or respect for people who abuse/bend the rules to the detriment of others

Is this the same abuse/bending that allows a whole load of New Zealanders to play rugby for Scotland? http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/wink.gif

It just strikes me that by clamping down on the rules to the nth degree Scotland will ultimately lose out on a truly great swimmer who has a genuine qualification for Scotland, but lives in England/Wales/Ireland etc.

Incidentally, what do folks see as a genuine claim to be Scottish? and therefore what should the criteria be?

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the UK swimming site

[outside smoker]

We have been thru this all before in "Flag of Convenience".

I repeat if there is a genuine case and desire to swim for Scotland and the person feels Scottish then I am all for it. (This i realise is difficult to prove).

As for other sports I agree - some of their claims for nationality are on slippy ground - WE (Scotland) complained when Peter Nicol, the world squash champion, defected to England and then proceed to take some of the best young talent from other home nations. I`ve said this all before so its nothing new.

[lane4]

Originally posted by Steve Buckley:
It just strikes me that by clamping down on the rules to the nth degree Scotland will ultimately lose out on a truly great swimmer who has a genuine qualification for Scotland, but lives in England/Wales/Ireland etc.
Incidentally, what do folks see as a genuine claim to be Scottish? and therefore what should the criteria be?



Scotland will never clamp down to the nth degree, they wouldn't have a swim team if they did! ;-)

Criteria should be one or more of the following: (1) birth certificate registered in Scotland, (2) have a parent who's birth certificate is registered in Scotland, (3) have been registered as living in Scotland for a period of no less than the preceding 5 years.

[swimstar]

I have a question for James S and Outside smoker, how many full time students trying to combine a competitive swimming career with a full time three year university degree course have any spare money at all, let alone for a 900 mile round trip plus costs for accomodation. She has no sponsorship and trying to upkeep her training costs proves difficult enough without extra costs. Now explain how shes meant to compete regularly in Scotland - are you willing to offer to help? I have swam with Tara and don't know of any swimmer who is more committed or dedicated to her sport.

[This message has been edited by swimstar (edited 03 September 2001).]

[Bazza]

Originally posted by lane4:
If Tara qualifies under the grandparent rule she can forget competing at the Commie Games for Scotland cos SASA scrapped the grandparent rule at their last AGM and it no longer applies. However, I'm sure there is still some other way of getting her in the team.

I had heard this, but if Tara is no longer eligible to swim for Scotland, why is she still included in the rankings?

James S: The point is there's a whole world of difference between someone from Newcastle/Carlisle competing in Scotland and someone from Portsmouth doing this, yet they both live in England. For example if you are Scottish, have you ever been to Portsmouth/South England to compete, or at all???

I think the real 'Jump on the bandwagon' sort are those who, as I understand it can live there for 6 months and compete as a Scot. As i asked in the 'Flag of convenience' topic, is someone who attends school/college/uni in Scotland Scottish?? Lane 4's criteria seems fairer. What does everyone else think?

Finally, Steve B has a point - you're really enhancing my desire to swim for Scotland. No honestly. You are. You come across as VERY erm... friendly. Yes, that's the word I'm looking for, friendly.

[Chris]

I think I'll put in my 2p's worth at this point.

As you may or may not know the Channel Islands of Guernsey (of which I am a happy resident) and Jersey (the enemy!!!) are also members of the Commonwealth.

We (Guernsey at any rate) have been sending a team to the Commie Games for a number of years now. Our qualification requirements are pretty similar to the other home nations - six months continuous residence in the past 12, some kind of family link to the islands, that sort of thing.

Two of my very closest friends moved to Australia at the beginning of this year. They married last year and were both born in Guernsey (as far as I remember - they've certainly lived in Guernsey for 15 years or more.) Now they obviously cannot be expected to make the 12,500 mile journey back to Guernsey to compete in order to make our team, but that obviously doesn't make them any less eligible for qualification - provided of course they obtain the necessary times needed.

My personal opinion on the 'Flag of Convenience' debate is this; I do not feel that it is right that a swimmer should be looking for some outdated link to a country just because they feel that it would be easier for them to obtain a place on that team. If a swimmer is not a first generation national of that country (i.e. they do not call themselves Scottish/English/Welsh/etc.) they should not be allowed to swim for that country.

Additionally, I would not allow a swimmer to move to that country within a period of 4 years of the competition simply to obtain a place in the team. I would expect to see some indication that they intend on making that country their home.

Just my opinion mind!! http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Chris (Webmaster)
Beau Sejour Barracudas Swimming Club - Guernsey
http://www.barracudas-sc.org.gg/

[Steve]

Originally posted by lane4:
Criteria should be one or more of the following: (3) have been registered as living in Scotland for a period of no less than the preceding 5 years.

would this mean that all scots swimmers couldn't go on holiday? Or maybe we will see a trade in false Scottish adresses at the British Nationals in the future http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously though, I agree with lane4 on those criteria, just suggest that the jumping up and down and gnashing of teeth about them be reserved for the authorities and not the swimmers.

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the UK swimming site

[This message has been edited by Steve Buckley (edited 03 September 2001).]

[James S]

I am not aiming my comments at Tara or indeed anyone in particular as I have said. I also made no reference to her or anyone swimming REGULARLY in scottish competitions, but there IS a Scottish National Championship which was brought to all our attention this year being the last meet to qualify for the Worlds. It seemed to be very well attended by people who have no links with Scotland and sounded like a great meet (one not to miss if you are Scottish??). I realise that this year was a one off but surely, if you are looking to compete for a country you at least honour their national champs with your presence (or at least attampt to). Again I am not intending to direct this to Tara (she has become a target unfairly). Few of us can comment (I am not one) on Tara's circumstances and of course not everyone has ready access to funds.

Can you become Scottish for arguing on their side on a website discussion forum? or do I have to keep it up for 6 months? http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/wink.gif

I didn't intend to turn this in to a slagging match but I still believe if you want something badly enough there are ways round most problems.

For the record, I agree also with lane4's proposed criteria. 6 months residency is a joke and gives athletes living outwith their country with a legitimate claim on a nationality a raw deal.

This may be getting quite heated, but I think that just shows how strong feelings run.

[lane4]

I do agree that there is always a way around a problem and if Tara sees herself as Scottish (which she obviously does having registered as such) then surely she would want to compete in the National Championships of her country and make every effort to attend said championships. I see that she found her way to the English National Championships and various other meets last year - all that must have cost plenty in accommodation, travel etc.

[Tara]

As I am the topic of the moment, I thought I would reply!!! I can swim for USA through birth, England through residency and Scotland through relatives. As it has been pointed out I have not travelled to Scotland for any meets, I have not been able to afford it. I have not recieved any funding from any governing body. Yes, I did make it to Crystal Palace nationals, it is only 1 1/2hrs away so I travelled up each day to save money. I also made it to Norwich (the "British" short course champs.) where I stayed with friends. I probably could have afforded a trip to Scotland this year but as I was sitting the finals of my Sports Science degree at the University of Portsmouth, and graduating it would not have been possible.
As for appearing on the ranking lists the SASA made a mistake and missed me off them the last two years (I have been registered since March 1999- before Karen Nisbet and Sam McNeilly I believe). Prior to this I was to far away from making ANY national team to consider eligibility (at the age of 15yrs I was on 1.09 100m freestyle- so a late developer indeed I am!! I got my first national time at 18!).
The offer from "Lane 4" is the first help of any kind I have been offered from Scottish swimming, apart from the encouragement of Graham Wardell who knows my coach from way back.
I hope this has answered some questions, although after reading some of the comments I will FEAR MY LIFE if I travel to Inverness in December!!! (which incidently, is my grandfathers birth town).

[This message has been edited by Tara (edited 03 September 2001).]

[outside smoker]

Unfortunately someone thru your name into the ring for a maybe relay team for the games and things went from there as that was NOT the initial point of the meeting.

I wouldn`t worry about SASA missing your name off the list from rankings - it happens to us up here all the time - computer glitches and misplaced meet results disks. At least your name appears this year.

As for fearing for your life - don`t. The only people annoyed by your presence will be those you swim against and beat - they`ll just have to get faster or move aside. You`d be made more than welcome at Inverness and there will be more than a few coaches to help out with splits etc. etc. I would point out that Inverness is about as far as you can travel North for a big meet in Scotland but the atmosphere is great and theres always plenty fast swimming - just ask any friends at England West who had a very successful meet there last year.

I know some people from the south coast got cheap Easy Jet flights to Edinburgh from London Luton then travelled North from there - I am sure lane4 would let you travel with his group who are based in Edinburgh.

As for Graham Wardell - well thats typical of the man to be offering help and encouragement, he`s like that all the time and does a great job at REN 96, where i see his swimmer Louise Coull got selected for the Euro Short Course in December.

Anyway if you can`t make it to Inverness here`s hoping we`ll see you soon. There might even be a Grand Prix in Edinburgh or Glasgow.

[mammamedley]

Ahhhhhhhhh! I love happy endings!!!

[lane4]

Tara
There is absolutely no need to have any fear about coming to Inverness or any other Scottish meet. You will be made more than welcome by me and outside smoker and many others I'm sure.
I mean it, you have to come and swim here! Forget the ASA's and come to Scotland for great atmosphere, top notch swim meets and plenty of fun to boot.
We will find a way to help you make the journey. Scotland needs you!

[Steve]

Originally posted by Tara:
<snip>(at the age of 15yrs I was on 1.09 100m freestyle- so a late developer indeed I am!! I got my first national time at 18!)

What annoys me about this is that I use to swim with tara when she swam 1.09 and now she's faster than me! Grrrr http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/biggrin.gif

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the UK swimming site

[This message has been edited by Steve Buckley (edited 04 September 2001).]

[Bazza]

Me too Steve!
Funny how as soon as Tara shows her face, everyone gets all friendly like! Thought you guys might realise, if you wanna slag someone off behind their back, it's no use doing it on here!! (Mentioning no names of course Lane 4/Outside Smoker)
Suddenly everybody's falling over themselves to help her, yet only two days ago the same people were mentioning the 'flag of convenience and pet gerbils or something?!
Just something to think about!

[lane4]

Originally posted by bazzaroodoo:
Funny how as soon as Tara shows her face, everyone gets all friendly like! Thought you guys might realise, if you wanna slag someone off behind their back, it's no use doing it on here!! (Mentioning no names of course Lane 4/Outside Smoker)
Suddenly everybody's falling over themselves to help her, yet only two days ago the same people were mentioning the 'flag of convenience and pet gerbils or something?!
Just something to think about!

You will of course remember Bazza that it was smoker who referred to the flag of convenience and swimbabe who spoke of gerbils - which I took to be a joke aimed at the governing body not Tara! And swimbabe has not offered any help yet as far as I can remember.

For your information, Tara has not shown her face, she posted a message. Personally, I have never met the girl and have no idea what she looks like.

In addition, I am not so naive to think that posting a message on the internet does not allow Tara and the rest of the world to see it! You cannot do something behind someone's back on the internet you know!! Look back over the posts, not one person has 'slagged' Tara off. Some have questioned (and rightly so) why she had never attended a Scottish Championship despite being registered as Scottish. An appropriate and understandable reply was given. Someone also made a plea for help. Such posts made me think I should offer some help to this person who wants to swim in Scotland and for Scotland but unfortunately has diffculty doing so due to personal circumstances - not least of which might be the exhorbitantly high meet entry fees (see other posts about this).

So you say what you want Bazza, the offer to help Tara is still out there, whether you like it or not.

[outside smoker]

Originally posted by outside smoker:


It is very disappointing that token Scots (I am not suggesting Tara Hutt is one at the moment) appear out of the woodwork every 4 years - especially when you get the case of the current Scottish Long Jump Champ, who represented us in 1994 NOT getting to go to Manchester because she is disallowed on some bizarre residency rule.


"bazaroodoo" please read this CAREFULLY and SLOWLY along with my posts on the topic on 2nd and 3rd of September.

You will see I slagged off those who use countries as an easier ticket to major meets even when they are not committed to that country. ie Flag Of Convenience. I was at pains to point out that i was NOT referring to Tara as i was not aware of all the facts and was asking for anyone to shed light on the issue. I DO stand by my original comments that you should not pop out the woodwork at the last minute and try and gain a spot - this has happened to numerous people in the past and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth to say the least. As for doing it behind someones back - it was on the INTERNET - which is about as far as you can get from behind someones back.

Now if you are finished with your inaccurate and incorrect nit-picking then we can get back to the real topic - when is Tara wanting to come north and is there anything that we can do to help her?

[Bazza]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by outside smoker:
[B]
For someone who is 21/22 it seems strange that she has not appeared at any Scottish meet or in any Scottish rankings that i can ever remember - or am i wrong on that point? Should this part of the discussion be moved to another topic?... say "FLAG OF CONVENIENCE"?

Of course, smoker, this is the section I was referring to. You seem (conveniently) to have quoted a completely irrelevant section in your last post? You also said "...the excuse that it's a long way etc etc is not good enough..." and asked "Is this confirmation of a last minute bid to make the Scotland team due to not making the England team?"
I would also appreciate it if you would make the effort to spell my name correctly (2 Z's). That goes to you too James S.

Lane 4: You did say, if I'm not wrong "If you want to swim for Scotland, there is usually a way to make you eligible, no matter who you are" and whilst Tara is ineligible due to the Grandparent Rule being scrapped, "I'm sure there's some other way of getting her in the team", as well as implying that she wasn't bothered about Scottish Nationals and didn't make every effort to attend, playing down any limitations (i.e. costs).

Finally, I'm very happy about the help being offered to Tara, and that maybe something good will have come out of these (false)accusations.
Having admitted not knowing Tara,(this is now aimed at everyone),maybe you shouldn't have assumed (wrongly) that she was a "last-minute-get-into-any-old-team-that-i-am-eligible-for IDIOT"

Are any of you big enough to admit that, or are you all too proud?

[James S]

Look bazzaroodo.

The rest of the world has got the point and moved on, however you seem to be stuck on this. Let me try to help you.

No matter how you interpret the postings of other members of the site, the intentions were not to pick on Tara. By all accounts, it sounds as though eligibility in Scotland is a bit of a fragile issue and Tara's name was simply unfortunate enough to be thrown in the ring. By the interest "The Tara Campaign" has created (initiated by lane4 and heavily supported by outside smoker), I thought you may have begun to realise that people have publicly acknowledged Tara was being focussed on too much.

There is obviously still an issue in Scotland and quite unsurprisingly the people there are very passionate about their feelings regarding it. Can I also point out that the people you are claiming are "too proud" are the very ones who are offering Tara all the help she needs? I believe these are genuine offers which I hope she will take up. I get the impression these guys are big enough and not too proud at all. Remember Tara has had no help before this and the help offered is bold and rather generous.

I suggest you join in supporting the campaign and stop trying to pick fights.

[This message has been edited by James S (edited 05 September 2001).]

[Bazza]

I'm not trying to pick any fights. I just felt they were turning on me when all I tried to do was defend Tara. Maybe it's time to just call a truce?

[Steve]

...and we al lived happily ever after http://www.swimclub.co.uk/ubb/biggrin.gif

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the UK swimming site