Montreal '05 [Archive] - SwimClub.co.uk Forums

Linny

19-07-2005, 07:06 PM

Men’s 200m Freestyle CARRY David 81 1:48.37
Men’s 400m Freestyle CARRY David 81 3:48.96
Men’s 400m Freestyle DAVIES David 85 3:52.35
Men’s 800m Freestyle DAVIES David 85 7:54.21
Men’s 1500m Freestyle DAVIES David 85 14:45.95
Men’s 50m Backstroke TANCOCK Liam 85 25.38
Men’s 100m Backstroke GODDARD James 83 54.90
Men’s 100m Backstroke TANCOCK Liam 85 55.21
Men’s 200m Backstroke GODDARD James 83 1:57.25
Men’s 200m Backstroke TAIT Gregor 79 1:58.28
Men’s 50m Breaststroke COOK Chris 79 28.02
Men’s 50m Breaststroke GIBSON James 80 28.02
Men’s 100m Breaststroke COOK Chris 79 1:01.42
Men’s 100m Breaststroke MEW Darren 79 1:00.83
Women’s 100m Freestyle MARSHALL Melanie 82 55.40
Women’s 200m Freestyle MARSHALL Melanie 82 1:58.25
Women’s 200m Freestyle MC CLATCHEY Caitlin 1:59.53
Women’s 400m Freestyle JACKSON Joanne 86 4:07.96
Women’s 400m Freestyle MC CLATCHEY Caitlin 4:07.02
Women’s 800m Freestyle COOKE Rebecca 83 8:28.30
Women’s 1500m Freestyle COOKE Rebecca 83 16:30.76
Women’s 50m Backstroke SEXTON Katy 82 29.39
Women’s 100m Backstroke SEXTON Katy 82 1:01.96
Women’s 100m Backstroke SPOFFORTH Gemma 1:02.29
Women’s 200m Backstroke MARSHALL Melanie 82 2:12.18
Women’s 200m Backstroke SEXTON Katy 82 2:11.49
Women’s 50m Breaststroke HAYWOOD Kate 87 31.45
Women’s 100m Breaststroke BALFOUR Kirsty 84 1:08.66
Women’s 100m Breaststroke HAYWOOD Kate 87 1:08.14
Women’s 200m Breaststroke BALFOUR Kirsty 84 2:28.40
Women’s 50m Butterfly BRETT Rosalind 79 27.18
Women’s 100m Butterfly BRETT Rosalind 79 59.88
Women’s 4 x 200m Freestyle Great Britain 7:59.11
Women’s 4 x 100m Medley Relay Great Britain 4:05.63

Leprechaun

20-07-2005, 08:31 AM

Swimming events don't start until Sunday so not getting too excited just yet.

Saw some of the diving last night (3m semis I think) on British Eurosport. I had assumed that they generally didnt get too close to the springboard, and the much-televised accidents were very rare, but even while I was scoffing dinner in front of TV there were 3 or 4 near misses of head on board that are even scarier in slo-mo!

No sign of any polo on any channel so far - if anyway does know of anything being broadcast please let me know as there is a fairly disgruntled (Ok so we are a bit of a minor minority I know!) minority who'd really like to see it done properly!

littlemonkey

24-07-2005, 01:56 PM

Fantastic live timing facility from Omega!!!

stinkpot

24-07-2005, 03:41 PM

Disappointed with Dave Carry's 400.(?) And what about Phelps? 18th? What's going on? He's not a machine, he's just a man!

lane4

24-07-2005, 05:05 PM

400 free men
A shocker for Phelps, given his splits he is either struggling for form big time or was being way too complacent in the back half of his swim. Disappointing from Carry, thought he was going to final for sure.

400 free women
Good to see both Brits through to the final but it looks a wide open contest that could go to any of the 8 finalists. Although if Jo or Cait are going to win it I would have preferred them to have been closer to the leading 3 in the heats.

100 breast men
Great swim from Chris Cook, so pleased that he is the number one ranked Brit now after many years in the shadows of the other three. Shocker for Mew though, no semi. Very high standard in heats to get a 2nd swim. Gold looks like its between the big 2 again.

200 IM women
Hoff certain to win I reckon. Awful standard across the board though in this event. It just doesn't seem to move forward at all. 2:17 to semi. We have several Brits capable of 2:17 but none competing.

50 fly men
Very high standard again to get a 2nd swim. Crocker and the South Africans for the medals. Both Aussies left trailing surprisingly.

100 fly women
Brett just sneaked into the semis but will need to step up a lot to get a place in the final. Likely to be a good race for gold when it comes round.

4 x 100 free men
USA look the likely winners, great heat swims from Canada (a better Commonwealth Games ahead than 2002 I suspect) and Lithuania.

4 x 100 free women
Jodie led off in 55 - out of form or cruising? Aussies still favourites though. USA to improve in the final to battle it out with France.

Bazza

24-07-2005, 05:37 PM

londoner62

24-07-2005, 05:46 PM

Yeah mens 100 breast stood out for me - incredibly high standards with sub-60 swims in the HEATS (!) from Kitajima and Hansen, also Duboscq 60.05. Disappointing swim from Darren though well down the list with a 62.4. British highlight would appear to be the womens 400 free.
Indeed a pity about Darren but we do have Chris; the 400 free should be a good race but it looks like Janet Evans 17 year-old record will survive tonights encounter. Also Ros Brett in her semi should have something extra as she is 1/2 second outside her best.

Steve

24-07-2005, 11:11 PM

Bronze for Caitlin McClatchey! Great back end swim moved her from 5th to 3rd over the last 100m. Great Stuff!

http://www.pullbuoy.co.uk/news/archives/000146.html

crawler

25-07-2005, 12:18 AM

A mixed bag for GBR with the highlights being Caitlin's Bronze when it looked even in the final 50 that she might finish 4th. Very tense finish but she claimed bronze by 7/100ths. Good to see her hit the 4.07s again, and good to have 2 finalists with Jo Jackson in 6th in 4.08.

Chris Cook swam really well next to Hansen and improved to 1.00.64 to qualify for the final in 5th, half a second behind a surprising Lisogor in 3rd.

Lovely to see a Tunisian swimmer pinch bronze in the 400m Free (I'd never heard of him but he beat Rosilino so good man - I really don't trust/like Italian swimming!).

Storming World Record in the mens 50m Fly by Roland Schoeman of RSA to destroy Crocker's WR of 23.30 to record 23.01 :clear:

Canada have had a good day proving the home country "boost" with a good silver medal in the mens 4x100 Free relegating Australia to bronze.

Shame on Eurosport for starting 15 mins later than scheduled and in later showing the fly semis missing out on the live medal ceremony for Caitlin!! What a crap bit of production that was!

Good luck to Becky Cooke et al for Monday - now bed!

Tara

25-07-2005, 11:51 AM

Lovely to see a Tunisian swimmer pinch bronze in the 400m Free (I'd never heard of him but he beat Rosilino so good man - I really don't trust/like Italian swimming!).

Grrrr....Yes lovely to see the Tunisian swimmer get a medal but please don't taint that by making comments like that.... If we are really going to comment on not trusting other countries athletes we would have to say it every time some-one from USA, China and Italy (and others!) received medals as they have all had their own "scandals" over the past 10 years.... USA have had a drugs scandal alot more recently that Italy...And probably a bigger scandal too....
And yes, having trained with Massi, I am sticking up for him! The guy is a professional and trains really, really hard consistantly....

Bazza

25-07-2005, 12:12 PM

Also Oussama Mellouli is the world shortcourse champion for 400 IM and won bronze in the 200, plus he was a bronze medallist in the 400 IM at the last world longcourse champs in Barcelona, 5th in Athens.

Bazza

25-07-2005, 12:20 PM

As for yesterdays swimming - Schoeman immense to knock over 1% off a world record. His start continues to be head and shoulders above the rest of the world, which is amazing.

Great swim by Caitlin to win our first medal, hopefully get us off on the right foot.

Annoying to wait an extra 15 minutes for the coverage to start, only to be instantly reminded how painful it is to watch with the commentary. Maybe I could turn the sound off and do my own.

Mens 100 breast final could be a cracker tonight with Hansen, Kitajima, Duboscq and Lisogor. Cook will have to pull something out to win a medal I think.

Katie Hoff looked very good in the 200 IM, but it was a shame the commentators ruined the mens 4x100m freestyle relay final by going on about Neil Walkers takeover. It did look very fast to me but according to the results was slower than Canada's in the next lane. Either way don't spend the last 3/4s of the race saying USA are probably going to be disqualified.

Tara

25-07-2005, 12:28 PM

Annoying to wait an extra 15 minutes for the coverage to start, only to be instantly reminded how painful it is to watch with the commentary. Maybe I could turn the sound off and do my own.

The commentary was bad yesterday, lets hope it improves!
Speaking of the mens 4 x 100m free relay, I think Pat Murphy who anchored the Australian team and split 48.9,is one to watch, he has amazingly efficient technique and a great attitude to swimming. Watching him train, he just looks effortless and relaxed even at top speeds....

selkie

25-07-2005, 01:40 PM

Mellouli's spent the past couple of years in the US at the University of Southern California, and has done well enough his name is pretty well known here. As others have mentioned, good IMer, and he also went a 14:45 SCM 1500 free in 2004.

Dang, once you got past the US squad, the men's 4x100 was way slower than the event was in Athens. Australia's bronze medal time 3:17.56 was slower than the 8th best time (germany- 3:17.18) in the Olympic finals. Even if the South Africans would have had someone split 52, they would have picked up a minor medal last night.

What makes Evans' record so difficult to break is that she negative split the race (2:02.14, brought it back in 2:01.71) And I don't think she ever broke 2:00 in an open 200 either. She was a freak, and I mean that in the most complimentary way.

I wish Brittany Reimer could have gotten on the podium for Canada. Two medals on day 1 would have far exceed expectations for the whole meet for that squad.

aswim

25-07-2005, 02:07 PM

hey what channel is coverage on and at what time?? would really love to see it. Please reply asap thanks

G-unit

25-07-2005, 02:18 PM

hey what channel is coverage on and at what time?? would really love to see it. Please reply asap thanks
Eurosport in Europe. It on now, Heats. Finals Tonight midnight UK time

NotVeryFast

25-07-2005, 02:19 PM

I do think it's very poor the way the commentators are deriding the efforts of the slower swimmers in the early heats. There was one chap who was clearly delighted with his time just now in the mens 200 free, and they made some sarcastic comment like "what, he's chuffed that he's just swum slightly faster than the women's world record?!". Well, there are a lot of men who would be ecstatic to beat the women's world record in any event.

I think it's great to see so many people able to enjoy the experience of competing at the world championships, I'm sure it's an experience they'll treasure for the rest of their lives, which is more than I can say for the experience of listening to their insulting commentaries.

NotVeryFast

25-07-2005, 02:22 PM

Eurosport in Europe. It on now, Heats. Finals Tonight midnight UK time
And for those who don't know, you can now get Eurosport in the UK on top up tv (monthly payment for extra channels on freeview). It was added to replace E4 when E4 became free. You can get viewing cards from high street stores such as Dixons - I got mine yesterday just to watch the world champs :)

G-unit

25-07-2005, 02:26 PM

aswim

25-07-2005, 02:40 PM

And for those who don't know, you can now get Eurosport in the UK on top up tv (monthly payment for extra channels on freeview). It was added to replace E4 when E4 became free. You can get viewing cards from high street stores such as Dixons - I got mine yesterday just to watch the world champs :)
hi i really want one as i have got digital(does it work on this) And how much is it and can i get it for only one month(all i want to watch is the champs too.) thanks

NotVeryFast

25-07-2005, 02:53 PM

hi i really want one as i have got digital(does it work on this) And how much is it and can i get it for only one month(all i want to watch is the champs too.) thanks
See here for full details:
http://www.topuptv.co.uk/
You need to either have one of the old "on digital" / "itv digital" boxes, or a newer one that supports the top up tv cards (talking about digital tv through the aerial, just to be clear, not cable or satellite). The web site has a list of compatible hardware. I had to buy a new set top box as mine didn't support it. The viewing card pack is £20 from Dixons, which includes the connection fee and the first month's £7.99 subscription. When you activate it, they take another £7.99 for the 2nd month, BUT if you cancel, they will refund this, so yes, in that sense you can just buy it for one month, but it will cost you £20 for that one month, and you might need a new set top box.

Chris

25-07-2005, 03:56 PM

hi i really want one as i have got digital(does it work on this) And how much is it and can i get it for only one month(all i want to watch is the champs too.) thanks

Sky Digital?

If so, pretty much every package has Eurosport already (except the very cheapest one I think).

Chris

ruthcp

25-07-2005, 04:57 PM

Grrrr....Yes lovely to see the Tunisian swimmer get a medal but please don't taint that by making comments like that.... If we are really going to comment on not trusting other countries athletes we would have to say it every time some-one from USA, China and Italy (and others!) received medals as they have all had their own "scandals" over the past 10 years.... USA have had a drugs scandal alot more recently that Italy...And probably a bigger scandal too....
And yes, having trained with Massi, I am sticking up for him! The guy is a professional and trains really, really hard consistantly....

Well said Tara, totally agree!! :)

ruthcp

25-07-2005, 04:59 PM

Eurosport in Europe. It on now, Heats. Finals Tonight midnight UK time

Could be wrong but I think it's midnight central european time which makes it 11pm for us (?) :read:

aswim

25-07-2005, 07:23 PM

i want to see it tho dont have sky and my digi box doesnt hold a card! Is there any chance i can see it at midnight or any time on like bbc2 or something. Or is there even a radio station i can listen to it on? thanks

chris_lamb

25-07-2005, 10:27 PM

Is there any chance i can see it at midnight or any time on like bbc2 or something.

From the looks of it the BBC will be showing highlights during Grandstand (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/grandstand/default.stm) on saturday from 12:10 to 13:50. That will probably be cut short to about 5 minutes though judging from the BBC's normal attempts.

selkie

25-07-2005, 10:38 PM

World record evening already:

Men's 50M fly- Roland Schoeman RSA 22.96

Women's 100M breast- Jessica Hardy USA 1:06.20

Hansen just missed his own mark in winning the men's 100 breast

crawler

25-07-2005, 11:46 PM

From the looks of it the BBC will be showing highlights during Grandstand (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/grandstand/default.stm) on saturday from 12:10 to 13:50. That will probably be cut short to about 5 minutes though judging from the BBC's normal attempts.

On Tuesday night BBC2 have a late night programme from Montreal (one night only for some reason).

Eurosport do drive you mad though! Advertised as starting at 11pm which of course is when the final session starts tonight they showed weekend motor racing till 11.15. THis raised my BP nicely!

Missed live the 50m Fly final and first heat of 100 Brs (missing therefore the new WR set by Hardy).

If they do the same tomorrow night it seems as though we will miss the majority of the women's 1500m FS with Becky Cooke.

I find their commentary very uninspiring - ie hardly any mention of Liam Tancock as he swam strongly in the mens 50 Bk semi to finish 3rd (however the 2nd semi was very fast so he missed out on the final). It's still a good way to spend a late evening though so I mustn't complain too much!

crawler

25-07-2005, 11:59 PM

World record evening already:

Men's 50M fly- Roland Schoeman RSA 22.96

Women's 100M breast- Jessica Hardy USA 1:06.20

Hansen just missed his own mark in winning the men's 100 breast

The amount of World Records set year on year in swimming just suggests to me how this sport is progressing at a rate far in excess of say athletics. Apart from the 2 set tonight Hoff came very very close in the 200IM - not bad for a 16 yr old!
Is Janet Evans 400m FS record (thanks for info Selkie) deemed the hardest to break would you say?

lane4

26-07-2005, 12:08 AM

Is Janet Evans 400m FS record deemed the hardest to break would you say?

No, Phelps 200 IM record is.

lane4

26-07-2005, 12:15 AM

World record evening already:
Men's 50M fly- Roland Schoeman RSA 22.96
Women's 100M breast- Jessica Hardy USA 1:06.20

Incredible swims both. To go 22 for 50 fly long course is actually amazing. Foster would be proud of that time for freestyle, he must be gutted.

lane4

26-07-2005, 12:26 AM

A better swim from Dave Carry tonight but unfortunately he just missed out on the final. Tancock too, a PB for him but no swim tomorrow. Haywood slightly better but no PB. Britain needs more swimmers to be hitting PB's if they are going to challenge for significantly more medals.

selkie

26-07-2005, 12:27 AM

There are a couple different women's records that are going to be very tough to break. De Bruijn's 24.13 in the 50 free came with an insanely fast reaction time that's described as too close to a false start to be easily repeated. Evans' 1500M may be a tougher time to beat than her 400M time in absolute terms, and is swum less often at the highest levels.

But my vote for toughest goes to Kristina Egerszegi's 200M back record. There's just no one out there anywhere close to where Mighty Mouse was in the event, and the one swimmer who might make it interesting (Natalie Coughlin) doesn't train that event.

Men's side the most scarily fast record is the 4x100 medley relay- three world record holders and whoever they drag along for the ride in the freestyle leg. The Americans may break their own record a time or two more before people start slowing down and retiring, but it'll be a long time before anyone else shows that kind of versatility and depth.

Individual races, I'd say Thorpe in the 800M and Phelps for the 200IM.

Bazza

26-07-2005, 10:51 AM

I don't think you can call Phelps' 200 IM the toughest record to break because there is every chance Phelps will break it. Hackett's 1500 free could be really tough as even he hasn't got close since, but we'll see what happens later in the week. Van Almsick's 200 free is pretty fast, Mel Marshall has been closest since but still a second off. I guess you could say the same about Thorpe's 200 free.

For some reason though some of the 'tougher' events on the womens side just haven't moved on. Evans' 400 free is from 1988 and apart from a couple of swimmers getting within 2 seconds in Athens looks very safe. I noticed Sunday this record was negative split which is incredible. The 800 free looks even safer, nobody within 7 seconds since Sydney and on the 1500 Hannah Stockbauer's very impressive 16:00 from Barcelona is still 8 seconds off the pace.

Egerszegi's 200 back again people can't seem to get within 2 seconds and then the IMs, well it looks like Hoff can threaten the 200 if she can just bring it back stronger on the freestyle. On the 400 Kaitlin Sandeno wasn't miles away in Athens.

Overall I would say all 3 of Evans' records should stand for a few years to come especially the 800.

Steve

26-07-2005, 11:04 AM

Liam Tancock had a good day according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/swimming/4715949.stm) not only did he just miss the final of the 100m butterfly, he also qualified for the final of the 100m backstroke in 14th place :rolleyes:, presumably in the worlds first 14 lane pool.

In all seriousness, I thought Tancock was the pick of the British swimmers tonight; always good to see people swim a PB when it matters, and I can't recall a situation where 6 of the finallists have come from the same semi final. It really looked as though he would get an outside lane in the final. Still all bodes well for his 50m - he's ranked 4th leading into the champs and should be full of confidence after today.

Gina

26-07-2005, 10:04 PM

Coverage has started on time :D and first up is Rebecca Cooke in the 1500.

Steve

26-07-2005, 10:17 PM

Coverage has started on time :D and first up is Rebecca Cooke in the 1500.
Who is unfortunately trailing back in 7th as I type, a long way off the pace.

Steve

26-07-2005, 10:26 PM

Who is unfortunately trailing back in 7th as I type, a long way off the pace.
Which is where she finished, 8 seconds outside her heats time. Cookie seems to be the only British swimmer who can swim fast in the morning but not in the evening. Bronze was 16:07 so would have been a big PB for Cooke to get on the the podium in any case. Great swim by Kate Ziegler to win - 16:00.41, just outside the CR and almost under 16 minutes.

Gina

26-07-2005, 10:36 PM

Gina

26-07-2005, 11:08 PM

Great swim from Leisel Jones. I'm really pleased that she has finally proved herself in a major final. The pressure was off her for the first time in quite a while, as the American got the WR in the semis and all eyes were on someone else.

A bit of a shock in the womens 100m back with Kirsty Coventry winning from lane 1 and Coughlin coming in 3rd.

londonboy59

27-07-2005, 01:28 AM

Boys and girls, you've really made my night - all this talk about Eurosport and BBC2 and there's me and Nick Gillingham slogging our wotsits off and getting soaked to the skin tonight all in the endeavour of bringing you commentaries on BBC Radio 5 Live.

Tis true we are not doing every race - but the ones involving the Brits we are - therefore hear about Cooky, Mel and the Welsh wonderboy on Wednesday night from 11 - c'mon somebody keep us company.

Best wishes from Montreal...

Bob Ballard

Chris

27-07-2005, 06:34 AM

Steve

27-07-2005, 07:05 AM

Welcome to the forums Bob. If 5 Live was on FM I might well be listening, but the AM signal is shocking here in the Channel Islands ;)

Chris
You could always use the internet, or is the signal on that a bit fuzzy in the channel islands as well ;)

lane4

27-07-2005, 07:39 AM

Best wishes from Montreal... Bob Ballard

Bob, your radio commentary is always excellent. Any chance of the Beeb moving you into a TV commentary position though? I'm sure there would be a lot of support for you, certainly many members of this forum would back such a move!

lane4

27-07-2005, 07:45 AM

If it hadn't been for a series of PB's from Chris Cook and a medal from Caitlyn McClatchey (why wasn't she swimming the 200 as well?), Britain would have gone almost unnoticed at this meet so far. All hopes now rest with Marshall, Davies and the women's 4x200.

Chris

27-07-2005, 07:45 AM

You could always use the internet, or is the signal on that a bit fuzzy in the channel islands as well ;)

Very poor connections ..... generators powered by donkey's ........ you're breaking up ......

:p

Leprechaun

27-07-2005, 08:09 AM

Welcome to the forums Bob. If 5 Live was on FM I might well be listening, but the AM signal is shocking here in the Channel Islands ;)

Chris

hear hear - welcome Bob. Radio 5 is a constant companion in our house/garden especially when chores have been set! Chris has a point about the AM signal. Its awful even in Surrey's stockbroker belt at night and when on the move. So many good sports commentaries are loused up by it.

Anyway - one question for the coaches and those who move in circles close to greatness. The Athens pool was outdoors and we didnt have a great return there for our efforts. So too is Montreal and I think it was drizzling for most of the session(yuk - the commentator said it had little/no effect on the swimmers - I for one would have had my brolly!) , and again there are hints of underachievement. Is the outdoor pool/outdoor environment a factor? Are the British swimmers REALLY used to high level competitions in outdoor pools?

Steve

27-07-2005, 08:13 AM

Bob, your radio commentary is always excellent. Any chance of the Beeb moving you into a TV commentary position though? I'm sure there would be a lot of support for you, certainly many members of this forum would back such a move!
Hear Hear! Also can Bob have some more input into the reporting on the BBC news website, so that it actually reports people in the correct events (see my earlier post) among other things.

Steve

27-07-2005, 08:17 AM

Chris Cook is into the 50m BR final and defending champion James Gibson misses out in 12th. Mark Warnecke is huge. He really flows throught the water though, almost butterfly like.

Shame about Rebecca, she did that at the Olympics too. Swam fast in the heats to get a good lane, but blew out in the final.
I had a look back at the results from Barcelona 2003 and a very similar thing happened. Cookie swam significantly slower in her 1500m final than she did in her heat and then went on to win the 800m bronze. Let's hope she is as resilient this time round.

lane4

27-07-2005, 08:26 AM

Are the British swimmers REALLY used to high level competitions in outdoor pools?

Yes! They have all had ample experience of both training and competing outdoors. And it really would not be a valid excuse for someone who had not got such experience. It's the World Championships - the cream rises to the top, that's all there is to it I'm afraid!

crawler

27-07-2005, 08:43 AM

I caught the morning sports report on the radio which went something like:

"another disappointing night in the pool for British swimmers.....Rebecca Cooke the fastest qualifier could only finish 7th....and James Gibson champion in 2003 failed to make the final".

Now I would have liked them to have at least countered this by saying that Chris Cook had made the final and that Mel Marshall had qualified strongly for the womens 200 Free.

Of course it's medals or nothing as far as the media and general public are concerned - so even more important that Mel delivers tonight. She has the knowledge that she can win, she looked very comfortable last night (was it a bad turn at 150 I didn't see) and she really must do it tonight - no excuses!

4x200 womens free - cant wait for it but can see no reason why McClatchey didn't swim in the 200. Equally Sexton with the 100 back.

Chris Cook has done so well and good that he was given the 50 brs event - pbs under pressure excellent.

crawler

27-07-2005, 09:06 AM

Our (Bill's) system of hitting tough qualifying standards to reach championships is really brought home when you look at today's heats.

4 events - mens 100 Free and 200 IM , womens 50 Back and 200 Fly and no GB swimmers competing.

3 finalists tonight with Cook, Marshall and Davies. I'd like a slow final in the brs please so Cook outraces the rest, and a fast fast 200 free with the winning time 1.57.??.
Davies to be in the hunt from the start of the 800 and not to be off the pace from early on. How do you see this one going for minor placings?

londonboy59

27-07-2005, 09:23 AM

Thanks one and all for the warm welcome - and I take on board your point about the crap AM signal at nights - time to in invest in a DAB radio if you have coverage in your area - its a revelation..and no I am not on a percentage.

Otherwise we're on satellite and freeview if you haven't paid - or can't get - Eurosport.

The point about outdoor pools is a good one. But for the most part they has been little wind, at pool level, and the weather has been fine - I will, or Nick will, put that point to one of the management before the week is out.

As for the negative reporting - well I discussed with my colleagues in London whether we should lead on Gibbo or Cook/Marshall. In truth a world champion not making the final was a big story and had to take prominence - but I think we gave the right amount of coverage to the finalists.

How the sports desks interpret it is down to them really - but my voice piece reflected most events in equal measure - can't say we always get it right but we do try.

Thanks for the comments lane4, you wouldn't really expect me to reply to your observations - lets just say I love the wireless and hope that we endeavour to cover the sport the RIGHT way. Will that suffice?

Now can I go back to bed please - it's only 5.20 am here...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bob Ballard

crawler

27-07-2005, 09:32 AM

Welcome Bob.

Another 5live fan here and appreciate your reports greatly. Surely you should be heading down to the pool for a morning dip? If you happen to see Drew Gordon anywhere near the pool deck please give him a nudge :)

rogant stard

27-07-2005, 11:20 AM

If you happen to see Drew Gordon anywhere near the pool deck please give him a nudge :)

As, and I'm pretty sure I'm right on this, Drew and James are hiding away in the Eurosport studios in Paris commentating on the same pictures we are seeing there would be little chance of that - as nice a thought as it is...

Phil Tanner

27-07-2005, 11:29 AM

Pleased to hear Parrack railing against the playing of music during distance events. Even at the world championships!

Bazza

27-07-2005, 11:54 AM

Well he's complained about everything so had to get one right.

Steve I sent a 'complaint' to the BBC about that article which had several mistakes - surely the BBC can get one of their commentators or someone who at least knows what events people swim to proof read the article if not actually write it (eg Bob, Nick, Adrian, Andy, Steve Parry!)?

What I see happening here though is a repeat of Athens - rather than the outdoor pool effect I'm worried it's the 'having to swim faster than you ever have in your life to qualify' effect, leaving the athletes no room for improvement at the champs.

Steve

27-07-2005, 12:02 PM

Steve I sent a 'complaint' to the BBC about that article which had several mistakes - surely the BBC can get one of their commentators or someone who at least knows what events people swim to proof read the article if not actually write it (eg Bob, Nick, Adrian, Andy, Steve Parry!)?

Exactly my point. Everyone makes mistakes (even me :eek: ) when it comes to times or where someone finished in an event several years ago, that kind of anorak stuff, but that particular piece just showed that the sub-editor or whoever put it together just had no knowledge (and probably no interest) at all of the sport - its like me trying to write a piece on Ice Hockey. Even a cursory glance from someone with a passing interest would have picked up the glaring errors. However, we should be glad that there is coverage at all.

As an aside, a few years ago I offered my services to BBC Sport online and was told that they had no need of any additional swimming input because Bob Ballard himself did most of their reporting. Evidently times change!

Steve

27-07-2005, 12:05 PM

As for the negative reporting - well I discussed with my colleagues in London whether we should lead on Gibbo or Cook/Marshall. In truth a world champion not making the final was a big story and had to take prominence - but I think we gave the right amount of coverage to the finalists.

How the sports desks interpret it is down to them really - but my voice piece reflected most events in equal measure - can't say we always get it right but we do try.

I'm with Bob on this one, although I didn't hear the report in question. Gibbo missing out was definitley the biggest story to all but swimming enthusiasts.

It's not just in the UK that this kind of slant happens though; in the Sydney Morning Herald the other day when Hackett won the 400 and the ladies won the relay, Michael Cowley managed to write a half page report (in a broadsheet newspaper) and fail to mention that the men won a bronze medal in their relay. Almost as though bronze just isn't good enough...:devil:

crawler

27-07-2005, 12:29 PM

...What I see happening here though is a repeat of Athens .....I'm worried it's the 'having to swim faster than you ever have in your life to qualify' effect, leaving the athletes no room for improvement at the champs...

Me too - but I am going to bite my tongue until the end of the meet to see how the overall position looks.
We need at least one piece of good news on Tuesday night.

NotVeryFast

27-07-2005, 12:41 PM

One comment from the Eurosport commentator (not sure which one) I do have a lot of sympathy with, is the complaint that you could potentially have the world number three absent from the championships, due to the "two per nation" limit. I'd say there's a strong case for allowing anyone in the top 8 or even top 16 in the world rankings to take part, no matter how many people from one country that ends up including.

selkie

27-07-2005, 02:24 PM

Two per country comes up a lot in discussion at the American selection meets, especially when we get one of those events that turns out to be unusually deep for a span of time. (Men's backstrokes are like that now here)

What I've come to feel would be fairest would be to allow the previous year's Olympic or Long Course World Champion an automatic entry into the event without having them count toward the country's event or team entry limit, and not counting toward the event entry cap as a whole. They've used that rule in athletics/track at times, and it seems to work out well.

Nice to see Kate Ziegler have a good swim in the 1500 last night, and so tantalizingly close to going under 16 as well. She's gotten a lot of hype here as possibly the next heir to Janet Evans, and it's good to see the hype starting to turn into reality.

Bazza

27-07-2005, 04:31 PM

I don't see anything wrong with allowing 3 per nation as sweeps would be pretty rare these days IMO, but the problem is you already have people moaning about how many heats there are - so the only way to include more of the top swimmers (eg 3 per nation) would be to cut the bottom couple of heats (ie all those swimmers from 'developing countries' in swimming terms) and this would be unfair.

I don't really understand though why they aren't using 10 lanes for the heats? Maybe if they used all 10 lanes then for an event with 80 swimmers you can instantly add an extra 20 without adding to the length of the morning session.

londonboy59

27-07-2005, 07:50 PM

We had 17 of them this morning - 17!!!

It wasn't until we got to heat 13 that there was anyone that was vaguely competitive.

I'm all for the FINA edict of embracing the world of swimming but 17 heats does seem rather excessive - how about 'B' heats - as in 'B' finals?
After the main competition is done - then if anyone sneaks into top 16 they can make the semis.

So I don't clog up the board with my responses to things on here - unless you want me to, of course, you can e-mail me at swimming@bobballard.net with specific points or questions.

If I can answer them, I will - but don't ask me to be too contentious, I'm a nice guy after all! Thats what I keep trying to tell people anyway.

Good luck to Cooky, DD, and Mel tonight wouldn't it be good to see them all get medals...by the way Nick Gillingham came second in the media 50 freestyle here - and no I didn't enter it!!!

take care everybody....Bob B

selkie

27-07-2005, 08:05 PM

Who won the media 50? Did Rowdy Gaines compete? (I wasn't sure if he was doing the US coverage again since I don't have the eighth tier cable channel it's on this time)
I figure as long as the emerging nation swim programs stick to the shorter events, it doesn't run overly long, and no harm is done. It's probably easier for an emerging nation national swim program to get funding from the NGB mothership for athlete development if they can say that they're going to be able to send athletes to Worlds or Olympics, not just to the African Games or Caribbean Championships.

3 or 4 extra heats of 50s or 100s aren't bad, and if it helps emerging nation programs, they're a good thing. Just as long as FINA holds tougher for qualifying standards for the longer stuff. I have been through 11 preliminary heats of the equivalent of the women's 400M free, and it ain't pretty.

Steve

27-07-2005, 09:51 PM

We had 17 of them this morning - 17!!!

You've clearly never been to a masters competition (although of the course the call for BBC commentators is slightly less!) - at the European Chmapionships two years ago I think I was in something like heat 32 of the 100m free and there were another ten or so after me. Ivor may remember better, he was in the same heat but further towards the middle of the pool.

So I don't clog up the board with my responses to things on here - unless you want me to, of course, you can e-mail me at swimming@bobballard.net with specific points or questions.

Please do keep posting here, it's great to get something of an inside track on the events in Montreal. Do you know why Sexton pulled (or was pulled) out of the 100 and 50m backstrokes, and why Caitlin didn't swim the 200m free? Are they saving themselves for something?

Gina

27-07-2005, 10:34 PM

Half way through the finals tonight and there have been some decent swims. Mark Warnecke won the 50 BR at the age of 35! Chris Cook came 5th in 28.00.

The womens 50 back semis - fastest qualifier to the final is Chang Gao. She had a great start and no one could catch her.

The 100 free mens was interesting. I reckon Phelps was doing just enough to make finals. He has the semis for the 200 IM tonight so he really needs to save energy. Roland Schoeman has a blistering first 50 and he was .5 under WR pace. They showed a close up of his second 50 and it looks pretty wavy in the pool.

Mel Marshall came 7th in a close 200 free final. I can wait until the 4x200 free relay. I'm hoping for a bit of a battle.

chlorine_babe

27-07-2005, 11:36 PM

World record for Grant Hackett in the 800 free

Steve

27-07-2005, 11:40 PM

World record for Grant Hackett in the 800 free
Yes, he finally managed to get himself far enough ahead of the world record split at the 700m mark to take Thorpe's final 100 split of 53 out of the equation and hence get the record. Hackett's last 100 was a 56.5. Veyr pleaed for him as he has been so close on a number of occasions. A couple of easy days for Hackett now, with just a 4x200 final to swim before the 1500m, so maybe we might see a new WR there too?

lane4

28-07-2005, 12:03 AM

We need at least one piece of good news on Tuesday night.

Well we didn't get it! We're having a shocker!

Totally amazing swim from Hackett.
Phelps and Lochte looked very good in the IM.

lane4

28-07-2005, 12:06 AM

lets just say I love the wireless and hope that we endeavour to cover the sport the RIGHT way. Will that suffice?

Yeah, that's a good answer. ;) Keep up the good work.

Steve

28-07-2005, 12:36 AM

Well we didn't get it! We're having a shocker!

Totally amazing swim from Hackett.
Phelps and Lochte looked very good in the IM.
To be fair to Davies, he did swim a PB in the final, albeit a small one. It would have been a masive stride forward to get on the podium, but I guess that is what it takes at this level. It looks like it will be a tough battle between him and Prilukov for the bronze in the 1500m, as Jensen will be the one to take the silver or challenge Hackett for the gold based on current form.

Big shame about Mel - looked to me that in the semifinal she was struggling a bit at the end and hence maybe took it out a bit steadier tonight (57.98 compared to 57.31 at the 100m last night) and unfortunately never seriously threatened as a consequence.

Steve

28-07-2005, 12:40 AM

I also see that Mel has pulled out of the 100m free tomorrow, presumably to concentrate on the 4x200 relay.

londonboy59

28-07-2005, 10:19 AM

Steve,

I don't think she was ever (Mel that is not Kim) going to do the 100 free.

Certainly when I spoke to her in Loughborough a fortnight ago she wasn't.

Is anybody else getting that Athens deja vu feeling? I have tried to remain upbeat - but we're at the halfway stage now - one medal (for McClatchey read Parry) three swimmers with pb's, admittedly Chris Cook had 4, and our highly ranked swimmers, with the exception of Caitlin, have failed to deliver.

Every night on Sport on 5 on 5 Live I'm saying I think so and so has a real medal chance only for them to finish 7th, and aside from Cooky, and to a lesser extent Liam Tancock - nobody has come up to the level I was hoping for.

Also bearing in mind there are some notable absentees, so the line-up, in some events, is not as strong as at the Olympics, it gives even more cause for concern.

I'm hoping that our backstroke boys get it together today - I've been impressed with Gregor recently - and he still has the memory of a swim-off two years ago where he finished ninth overall..Jimmy Goddard, who knows, as we saw last August on form and avoiding the lane rope he could do it - but not sure he's quite where he needs to be at the moment.

Women's 4X200 free, could and should medal, but....fill in the blank space.

By the way Christian Kellar won the media 50 metres freestyle in 24.30 - Nick's time 25.83..not bad for a breaststroker eh - the prize was a rather swanky Omega watch and there was some bartering but Gillingham couldn't knock him down enough.

Have a good day everyone..

Bob B ;)

crawler

28-07-2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks for the update Bob.

Do you get to do post swim interviews with swimmers (i.e are you the radio equivalent of Sharron? :) ) or do you get media access to Bill? I'd love to know what he is saying.

The ASA website makes the best of it - their headline for last night's finals was " Davies posts lifetime best in record final"

Athens deja-vu is a good description - only half-way through, feels like longer! Anyway any GB success will just be so much sweeter?!

GettingFaster

28-07-2005, 11:20 AM

So I don't clog up the board with my responses to things on here - unless you want me to, of course...

Ditto to other responses, please do keep posting your inside views. I tend to stay off the 'expert' threads but read them avidly, as you all give such interesting insights into proper swimming.

(As an aside - yes Pete, I know, sorry! - would the Beeb be interested in screening top-level UK junior swimming events like Speedos? Any danger you could suggest it to the powers that be? Run a series of behind the scenes looks at what training swimmers have to do to get to the levels they're at, an 'educate the masses' kind of thing?)

Gina

28-07-2005, 02:22 PM

I have just realised that there is live coverage of the heats on Eurosport. I have just caught the last heat of the 200m back, with Peirsol winning and Tait doing a 2.00 to make the semis. I was worried about Goddard in that race as his splits looked bad in the second 100m. Did he hit the lane rope as I missed his heat?

Pete

28-07-2005, 03:05 PM

Goddard did what quite a few Brits have done; died off in the last quarter.

crawler

28-07-2005, 03:47 PM

Womens 4x200 free heats.....
Just got home in time to catch it (Germany DQd in first heat).

Classic commentary from Eurosport as the final swimmers turned at 700m when one could see that GB (then in 4th) were closing the gap:

"... sadly Great Britain falling away..." only to then have to reverse that dumb comment within about 15m. They finished 2nd to China in about 8.03.

I find it annoying that they manage to sit through an 8 minute race and fail to even mention the order the GB girls were swimming in.

It makes me seethe !!!!

Tara

28-07-2005, 03:54 PM

Or the fact that it wasn't the four swimmers they said it was. It was led off by Cooke!

Cooke 2.01.7,McClatchey 1.59.8, Beckett 2.03.4, Jackson 1.59.9

mad4it

28-07-2005, 07:33 PM

Hopefully they can do better than this when Mel is in the team, I'm assuming Beckett will be dropped?

Pete

28-07-2005, 09:12 PM

The reason they might not know the swimmers on the team might be due to having no access to team lists. If you don't have a close enough view of the swimmer before diving in then getting names wrong would lead to criticism. So they can't win. I would imagine they commentate using the scene we get at home. Difficult I would imagine.

woolamai

28-07-2005, 09:29 PM

Just checking the results....are they still sticking with the Team GB name or are they going to change it to Team Tadpole or something more descriptive of how average they are? Maybe Tim Henman could get a place in 2012 - courageous, gives 100%, a huge fish in a small pond, but at the end of the day...rubbish.

lozswimmer

28-07-2005, 09:32 PM

Hopefully they can do better than this when Mel is in the team, I'm assuming Beckett will be dropped?
Yep. On the start lists for the final, Mel is included but theres no Julia Beckett. If she pulls off a good swim I reckon theres a great medal chance! *crosses fingers!*

Steve

28-07-2005, 09:44 PM

Yep. On the start lists for the final, Mel is included but theres no Julia Beckett. If she pulls off a good swim I reckon theres a great medal chance! *crosses fingers!*
You have to wonder why they've decided to put Cookie off last though, I can understand sending Mel and Caitlin off first to try and make sure the team is in contention, but no disrespect to Becky, she isn't the first person I'd choose for a sprint relay anchor leg. Can't help thinking it would have been better with Jackson on the anchor and Cooke in third. Here's hoping I am proved wrong.

Steve

28-07-2005, 10:48 PM

Otylia Jedrzejczak just broke the world record in the 200m butterfly in 2:05.61; Jess Schipper got silver also under the old world record time in 2:05.65 - almost a 3 second PB!!

lane4

28-07-2005, 11:12 PM

Otylia Jedrzejczak just broke the world record in the 200m butterfly in 2:05.61; Jess Schipper got silver also under the old world record time in 2:05.65 - almost a 3 second PB!!

The result should go to Schipper! Otylia did a one handed finish! It was clearly deliberate too! I've never seen the likes before. With the benefits of Sky+ I was able to rewind live TV and reply the finish over and over from the underwater shot they showed of it. It is crystal clear that she deliberately cheated on the finish to get the crucial edge over Schipper!

crawler

29-07-2005, 12:11 AM

Steve

29-07-2005, 12:14 AM

You have to wonder why they've decided to put Cookie off last though, I can understand sending Mel and Caitlin off first to try and make sure the team is in contention, but no disrespect to Becky, she isn't the first person I'd choose for a sprint relay anchor leg. Can't help thinking it would have been better with Jackson on the anchor and Cooke in third. Here's hoping I am proved wrong.
My worst fears were realised - GB had a 2 second lead over the 4th plced Chinese at 600m, but Cookie couldn't live with a 1:59.04 split from Yu Yang, as she continued her worrying trend of swimming slower in the evening than in the morning and we ended up 4th. Great swimming from the first three girls though, especially Caitlin with a 1:58.26 split, but all 3 under 2 minutes. We needed Julia Beckett to be at her 2:00 form to be on the podium, but her 2:03 in the heats was very disappointing.

That's all nothing compared to Libby Lenton's lead off of 1:57.05 for the aussies though - 4th all time performance and makes her the third all time performer. Mind you one of the swimmers above her is Lu Bin of China with a 1:56.94 from 1994, which must be viewed with some suspicision. Libby may be ruing her decision to pull out of the 200m at the aussie trials after the semis. as she clearly would have been a contender for the individual gold.

Aussiebabe

29-07-2005, 01:44 AM

londonboy59

29-07-2005, 02:26 AM

Anybody spare a piece of rope - its getting so depressing here.

If it wasn't for the Croatian water polo fans I might have chucked myself under the subway train tonight - depressed doesn't even cover it.

Now tell me, you lot - for the most part - have been around the sport longer than I have. Why, when it is one of your key events, would you choose to go to a World Championship with no reserve swimmers in the women's 4x200 free.

Then compound that by using someone who never does the 200 as an individual event and whose best discipline is the 800?
We tossed a bronze away tonight after three fantastic swims, particularly Caitlin's, Becky did her best, though still went slower than in the heats..anyone see a pattern emerging? Whilst everybody else was doing sub 2's she went 2.02. Not her fault but if I was mel, Caitlin or Jo I would feel gutted, instead they were upbeat..and no sign of Alistair Campbell!

Who should carry the can for that one?

Secondly on the 200 fly issue, video evidence clearly shows that the Pole finished the race with one hand. The Aussies put in a protest to be told that video evidence is inadmissable...why for heaven's sake? Pool side there are more cameras than spectators - especially during the heats and you can't seek recourse to the tv footage - madness, stark staring raving bonkers in my book.

Opened up another couple of cans of worms here - well the food at the pool is dreadful it might be more appetising!

Take care...

Bob Ballard

Steve

29-07-2005, 06:36 AM

Unfortunately the selectors hamstrung themselves with their selection policy for the relays this time around. At the past few championships there has been provision within the policy to take additional swimmers based on the cumulative team time being within certain parameters. This was certainly the case at the Olympics where 6 women and 5 men went for the 4x200. This time it was 4 or none with no other possible options open to the selectors.

That's all very well, but in this case they only just scraped under the QT anyway and then only having four people puts the team management in an impossible situation when, as happened today, someone isn't quite on song. Having taken a good decision to rest Mel from the heats there really wasn't another option among the swimmers who are there as to who could fill in apart from Cookie, who did a good job in the morning. She also did swim the 200 at the trials where she came 7th in 2:02.88 (improved to 2:02.45 at the stage 3 meet). Clearly they weren't expecting Beckett to only go 2:03 and would then have brought Mel back in to lead off and left Jackson on the last leg.

In their defence, beyond the four selected swimmers, there isn't obvious who else they would have taken. The team filled the four first places at the trials and 5th placed Kate Richardson only went a 2:02.37. In the past we've seen Jo Fargus and Georgina Lee successfully slot in after relay challenges at the preparation camp, but again it's not clear apart from Cookie who from the squad in Montreal could have been considered.

Having got into that situation though, it seems madness to have put Cooke on the last leg - as an 800m swimmer she basically has two speeds - stop and go (that's not a criticism!) and isn't well suited to chasing or holding off sprinters when a change of pace or a turn of speed is necessary. It would have made much more sense to me for her to slot in at number 3.

Mind you it's not the first time we've seen such eccentricities in the relay selection - at the Sydney Olympics, the women's 4x100m freestyle team had Karen Pickering, our best anchor leg swimmer leading off, and Sue Rolph, our best lead off swimmer anchoring. The result? Pickering only went 56:01 and we came 4th. Rolph to be fair split a 54 point so did a good job at the back end. It's still the British Record that race, so definitely a case of what might have been.

Interestingly, Don Talbot always maintained that to be competitive consistently at international level in relays you needed to have 8 swimmers competing for spots. Yes 8. That's 2 of each stroke for the medley relay and then 8 individual freestylers for each other team. Can't say we are anywhere near that standard at present.

Taxiandbank

29-07-2005, 07:22 AM

"In their defence, beyond the four selected swimmers, there isn't obvious who else they would have taken."

On the basis of the European Juniors and EYOF Halsall, George, Carlin, Gandy and Unwin All went 2.03 or better. Why not start building for the future? :devil:
TandB

lane4

29-07-2005, 08:16 AM

On the basis of the European Juniors and EYOF Halsall, George, Carlin, Gandy and Unwin All went 2.03 or better. Why not start building for the future? :devil:
TandB

With all the help and support those girls have been getting in recent times you can be sure the future building is already well under way. At the World Champs however, its normal and correct practice to swim your fastest swimmers, as determined by the Trials. ;)

chris_lamb

29-07-2005, 08:21 AM

Secondly on the 200 fly issue, video evidence clearly shows that the Pole finished the race with one hand. The Aussies put in a protest to be told that video evidence is inadmissable...why for heaven's sake? Pool side there are more cameras than spectators - especially during the heats and you can't seek recourse to the tv footage - madness, stark staring raving bonkers in my book.

Pretty much the same reason video evidence isn't allowed in lots of other sports - no one has worked out how to do it fairly yet. You would need to ensure that as far as possible every lane had equal coverage. You'd also need to descide when video evidence would be looked at - every race or just if someone protested? All teams would need to be given access to the videos to check every race.

At high level meets such as this it probably would be possible but the rules would need to be written such that they couldn't be applied to a parent with a video mobile in the spectator gallery at a club gala!

Phil Tanner

29-07-2005, 08:21 AM

But where does the responsibility lie if -- for the second major championships running -- far too many of them perform as if completely knackered going into the meet?

Leprechaun

29-07-2005, 08:30 AM

its getting so depressing here.

Now tell me, you lot - for the most part - have been around the sport longer than I have. Why, when it is one of your key events, would you choose to go to a World Championship with no reserve swimmers in the women's 4x200 free.

....Not her fault but if I was mel, Caitlin or Jo I would feel gutted, instead they were upbeat..and no sign of Alistair Campbell!

Who should carry the can for that one?

Funny you should mention Alistair Campbell. I am now (sadly) sensing that the same sort of bandwagon about team management that started during the Lions tour is just starting to roll. I was reading yesterday's Times after a late return from polo and read about Mew being "sent back home". What is going on out there? What is "management" up to? Event times are appallingly short of pbs in some instances - how many times have those awful Eurosport commentators said " If X was anywhere near their pb they'd be in the final and amongst the medals". I'm happy to have been put right about wondering if outdoor pools were the cause of the problem but now we're having to listen to the "swims better in mornings as opposed to evenings" baloney. I am sure that no-one can do better than go to a major championship and improve on their best, and learn as a result - in many cases "medalling" (hate it) is academic but we are seeing the complete opposite. If anyone has any views on how it is all being managed I'd loved to hear them

Secondly on the 200 fly issue, video evidence clearly shows that the Pole finished the race with one hand.
Bob Ballard

Doubt the authorities will have enough common sense - look how long it has taken for rugby and football.....

Arianna

29-07-2005, 08:46 AM

There is another article in the Times this morning as well!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4-1712822,00.html

Aussiebabe

29-07-2005, 08:56 AM

Talking of video evidence, I also heard that FINA are talking about introducing this in March 06 also, with the inclusion that in all major meets there will be underwater coverage in every lane.

crawler

29-07-2005, 09:32 AM

Here's the blurb from the ASA "feel good" website:

"Cooke’s inclusion in the relay for the final was unexpected. She had helped the team to qualify in the morning but was due to make way in the afternoon. However, a problem with Julia Beckett (Loughborough University), part of the original planned four, saw Cooke reinstated.
It was a tremendous effort from the swimmer who will be in action again tomorrow in the Women’s 800m Freestyle.
For coach Ben Titley the make-shift quartet gave a good account of itself.
“The girls gave everything tonight,” said Titley. “It was a huge effort and they can be proud of themselves for giving it a real go.
“We had to rethink things after the heat but we couldn’t have asked for more from the swimmers, they responded brilliantly in what was a very fast race. They are showing some real promise for the future”"

Seems as though Beckett is being made a scapegoat, unless by "problem" they mean a physical probem rather than her performance.

She has had no swims prior to yesterday - should have given her the 2nd berth in the ind 200 Free once she was selected for relay.

Given that she is capable of 2.00 (is this faster than Cooke's best?) maybe they should have stuck with her in the hope of one of those rare GB things, an improvement! All said with advantage of hindsight I know....

Phil Tanner

29-07-2005, 11:20 AM

Could it be that with the Commonwealth trials only a week away, some swimmers have prioritised qualifying for a trip to Australia over busting a gut in Montréal?

ringer

29-07-2005, 11:27 AM

I understand that the Commonwealth Trials at Sheffield is just the first stage of the qualification process and that stage meets and assessments later in 2005 and (maybe 2006?) will be part of it but how can a performance in early August be a barometer for form in March 2006?

Bazza

29-07-2005, 11:34 AM

Regarding the relay - I was shocked to see Cooke swimming, especially the last leg. Only when I saw the heat results today and saw Beckett swum 2:03 does it make more sense. Still if Cooke repeated her heat performance and Mel had found a few tenths we could have got bronze. Again I still feel we are producing our best swims at trials, raising expectations, only to perform worse at the meet.

As for the 200 fly, I noticed the one handed touch, and it seems to be brushed over. I have never seen anything that blatant at a major international meet, and what example does it set to youngsters learning the sport? The answer is pretty simple - underwater coverage of all lanes at international meets, judges review the evidence. If swimmers try to break the rules they will be caught and disqualified.

Taxiandbank

29-07-2005, 11:35 AM

Talking of video evidence, I also heard that FINA are talking about introducing this in March 06 also, with the inclusion that in all major meets there will be underwater coverage in every lane.
There was an amendment tabled at the technical meeting in Montreal from the Danish and Finnish federations (I Think) for video evidence to be used which the technical committee did not support. I think it would have required overhead cameras on all lanes. Hardly surprising then that they did not allow the Australian protest.
TandB

Phil Tanner

29-07-2005, 11:38 AM

What I was thinking was that swimmers who can get qualification for Melbourne under their belts as early as next week can take things a little easier and maybe have a summer holiday, whereas if they come up short they will be putting themselves under pressure to qualify at the second and third stages in the autumn and will have to stay in intense training to that end.

I'm just a parent of a youth swimmer, but it strikes me as completely bonkers to have the trials hot on the heels of the world championships, especially when swimmers coming back from Montréal will have four hours of jetlag to overcome, and something like seven months before the Commonwealths. Just like last year it was bonkers to schedule the British SCs during the Olympic Games.

Dreama

29-07-2005, 01:44 PM

It seems like plenty of swimmers have taken their holidays between the Olympics and now, and therefore are lacking the edge they had before

londoner62

29-07-2005, 01:44 PM

I understand the frustration of the you guys particularly the last day or twos worth of posts and have come to the conclusion I need to be cheered up!!!

For fear of casting a positive aspect upon this thread, could one of you stat fans give a list of which of our swimmers has set a PB at this meet? I'd do it myself but the info seems to be all over the place and I don't think I'm up to the task.

Paul

crawler

29-07-2005, 02:15 PM

Tara

29-07-2005, 02:24 PM

selkie

29-07-2005, 03:34 PM

I'd guess that the CG trials are so close in order to let the people in Montreal swim on the same taper for both meets. Still, with the young kids you've got right now who seem to be getting faster every month, a Trials meet in November would have probably been better at sorting out who was going to be fastest in early '06.

Both gold and bronze in the women's 4x200 went to the team with the better #4 swimmer in the race. From the US side, Whitney Myers stepped up in a huge way last night and split 1:58, Reese didn't even break 2:00 and with the top three on each side more or less cancelling each other out, she was the difference. Huge progress from a girl who wasn't even in the Athens relay pool.

Arianna

29-07-2005, 06:16 PM

And here is Adrian Moorehouse's take on things :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/swimming/4728491.stm

Woodward

29-07-2005, 09:11 PM

According to the guidelines, the gold medal winning time in Montreal wouldn't have qualified to even participate on the British team. There maybe a purpose for these standards but the benchmarks need to be re-examined. Did the fact that Mel Marshall had to gear her training to attaining a QT hamper her preparation to peak in Montreal? It doesn't explain the disappointing results from others that had the standard at trials but I can't help but think her preparation was made a little less ideal.

One solution would be to use results from the actual event at the big meets (olympics and world champs) rather than rankings taken from the entire year. Many of the athletes that set some of the top times don't even contest the event and any number of athletes will peak at lesser events and throw down times. Plus, last year the 200 Free rankings were bunched tightly. UK Swimming benchmarks should reflect reality. You want to demand high standards from your swimmers without impeding their readiness and proper focus.

Linny

29-07-2005, 09:47 PM

For those of you who had any doubts about Jedrzejczak and her touch, and I did, have a look at this http://www.beerendonk.net/2005/07/wk05-jedrzejczak-had-gediskwalificeerd.html - the slowed down overwater shot - (I guess you may have seen it all somewhere else, but on sky, even interactive, it wasn't this clear).

Dreama

29-07-2005, 09:59 PM

the very last shot on the video of that website confirms it for me, don't know if the result will ever get changed though

Gina

29-07-2005, 10:17 PM

Aaron Peirsol with a WR in the 200m back - 1.54.66 but no coverage on Eurosport until Midnight because they are showing Beach Vollyball! Boring. I damn hope they show that race tonight (or early tomorrow morning to be precise).

Steve

29-07-2005, 10:26 PM

For those of you who had any doubts about Jedrzejczak and her touch, and I did, have a look at this http://www.beerendonk.net/ - the slowed down overwater shot - (I guess you may have seen it all somewhere else, but on sky, even interactive, it wasn't this clear).
You have to ask what the finish judge was looking at to miss that though, it's not as though he was a million miles away...

Steve

29-07-2005, 10:44 PM

Gina

29-07-2005, 10:48 PM

The results from the mens 50 free final are in and a 22.26 is 8th place. Would Foster have got faster? Would he have even gotten into the semis with 16th place going 22.6? My opinion is no he wouldn't have.

Gina

29-07-2005, 11:02 PM

WR for Leisel Jones in the 200 BR - 2.21.72. Bless her, she was crying at the end. She has done really well at this years WC. What made it so different to the last few years where she has crumbled in the finals when every semi final has been promising???

Aussiebabe

30-07-2005, 01:01 AM

What made it so different to the last few years where she has crumbled in the finals when every semi final has been promising???

I think a fair bit of maturity, and a lot of work from various people, including her new coach, but mostly from sports psych. I have heard that Ken Wood is a firm believer that no swimmers should need a sports psychologist to perform well. Both the 100 and 200 Breast where fantastic swims.

As for the CG trials, I know they are being held in January over here in Australia, which will still give the swimmers plenty of time to prepare for the Games. I think the qualifying standards are correct for you guys, but you do not have the quality of swimmers to perform at these standards yet. It will happen, but patience is required. The future looks good for British swimming, especially with the 2012 announcement. Just be patient and success will eventually come your way!

Steve

30-07-2005, 01:09 AM

Steve,

She still seems adamant that it won't be part of her future, but I believe Stefan will now have to look at this event seriously, as she will certainly be capable of a world record in this event in the near future. My personal feeling is that she will now concentrate more on the 100 Fly, aiming for a sub 57 swim and possibly the world record in the 200m free. Lets hope so!! With the extra training involved for the 200m(maybe!!), she might just pull out some improvements in the back end of her 100m free swim aswell.

Seems like she might take it up properly - quoted in the Sydney Morning Herald today. Probably easier to get on the team for the 200 than the 100 at the moment too!

"After this morning [the heats], I knew I had a lot left in me and I was really excited about racing tonight because the 4x200m is such a different event for me, and I have a great team and I just really wanted to get out and get a lead as much as I could," Lenton said.

Asked if she might take up the 200m event individually, she said: "Yeah, it's something to think about for the future. I'll definitely try and take it up next year and we'll see how it goes."

Tara

30-07-2005, 02:41 PM

Times article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4-1711282,00.html)

Not sure if someone already posted the above article...

Spidey

30-07-2005, 03:10 PM

For those of you who had any doubts about Jedrzejczak and her touch, and I did, have a look at this http://www.beerendonk.net/ - .
Need help here, seems to be a link to another swim chat room like this, but I see no pictures, just what seems to be Dutch words :rainbow:

Tara

30-07-2005, 04:03 PM

Better swims from GB so far today with Liam Tancock and Kate Haywood safely through (ironically in the non-olympic events :p ). And a sub 15mins swim from Davies to qualify fastest for the 1500m final...Good if he could improve on his bronze at the Olympics with the silver tomorrow...

Linny

30-07-2005, 04:35 PM

Need help here, seems to be a link to another swim chat room like this, but I see no pictures, just what seems to be Dutch words :rainbow:I've changed the link for users who have lost their scroll bars :rolleyes:

Gina

30-07-2005, 05:56 PM

Times article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4-1711282,00.html)

Not sure if someone already posted the above article...

It seems to be a bit harsh, but then Mew did swim considerably off his time from the trials.

I have read a lot about the selection times being too tough. Maybe if we send the two fastest in each event to World and European championships and then for the Championships that occur every 4 years (Commies and Olympics) we should take people who achieve the more strict times.

Katie

30-07-2005, 06:39 PM

I think we should be giving our swimmers all the experience of high level competition they can get, to be honest. It seems like we're budgeting our swimming at the top end, these young swimmers are receiving a lot of funding (which is by no means wrong, they are very talented), and some of the older swimmers are receiving nothing at all. I think if we continue taking such small teams to these championships, yes it will seem much more of an achievement to make a British team, but when you get there it is possible you're going to be totally overwhelmed by the experience of swimming at such a high level, and the nerves might get to you. On the other hand you could swim really well... but I think the first option is a distinct possibility. I know it's been said that "champions act like they've been there before" and all that... but it would be nice if some of our swimmers coming through could have the chance to be there before, rather than just being chucked in at the deep end, so to speak.

I think it would benefit us hugely to look at the top 16 times from the last major championship, and use this as a base to select our teams. The idea is to swim fast in the heats, and then improve in the semis through to the finals. Maybe if we took more swimmers, more would make semis (which would be pretty good for team spirit) and go on to finals. There are a number of British swimmers NOT on this team who could have made semi finals, if not finals easily.

That's just my opinion, but I feel that the team morale must be pretty low in this meet, and just think it would make more sense to take a larger team, even if they weren't all ranked in the top 10 in the world. It definitely would have been a good idea to take maybe Bethan Coole or Kate Richardson along just in case of illness or something in the 4 x 200 team. :)

londoner62

30-07-2005, 08:15 PM

Chris Cook: 50m & 100m breaststroke (x2)
David Davies: 800m Freestyle (x2)
Liam Tancock: 100m backstroke
Maybe(I hope so) I'll forced to reconsider in a few days but I fail to see how thiere can be a positive spin placed upon our efforts at this meet even with one medal brought home! Hopefully there will be additions to the above list.........

Phil Tanner

30-07-2005, 08:15 PM

I find the Mew thing a bit puzzling. If he has broken team discipline and been sent home for that, fair enough - but say so. If he was in such poor shape he was always going to embarrass the team, why let him swim? If he is a world-class athlete who just had a bad day, does it really warrant slashing his financial support? I would have thought it was grounds for offering him more, conditional on an early return to form.

This looks like a downside to the doctrinaire "do this time and you are in" selection policy. If Darren Mew blitzes the field at the Commonwealth trials and makes the A time, won't they have to pick him?

Maybe they could set slightly less demanding consideration times and then select from within that pool nearer the event. Once in a while it might mean someone's nose being put out of joint if an apparently slower swimmer makes the team, but it would be clear then where the blame lies if that swimmer then bombs. With the selectors.

As things stand, the management seems to make sure the swimmers always get the blame, and they stay Teflon-coated.

It is now reported that Katy Sexton was on a hiding to nothing coming into the world championships because she has been diagnosed as having over-trained. Will this cost her funding?

Leprechaun

30-07-2005, 08:31 PM

Sorry if its completely off-beam and nothing to do with the swimming but Eurosport did get round to showing the polo 3rd place and final tonight - and even at a reasonable time (TV dinner!). Absolutely amazing games and would recommend it to anyone as a spectator sport when you see the quality of the top level. All of us who swim can appreciate the effort involved and then you have to add the ball-skills on top. The commentary was miles better than the swimming too!

Bet it never gets shown on BBC on the basis of "local disinterest" but the challenge to those youngsters who have ball skills and swimming skills is to remember GB have an entry at London 2012!

If you'd like to see the video then pm me

sponsor

30-07-2005, 08:43 PM

What I see happening here though is a repeat of Athens - rather than the outdoor pool effect I'm worried it's the 'having to swim faster than you ever have in your life to qualify' effect, leaving the athletes no room for improvement at the champs.
you are so right!

CGorman

30-07-2005, 10:30 PM

Just saw Crocker set new world record for the 100m fly... 50.40. Phelps got 51.65 in second place. Excellent race, he just kept going to the end... did'nt lose his momentum.

Pete

30-07-2005, 11:17 PM

We are now into year 5 of Sweetybum is he doing a good job? Does he get on well with the swimmers or are they just fitting in because he is the man at the top? Is he ruining some swimming careers?
I am asking these questions because the performances have been very poor and not that I have any opinions about Bill. Other nations seem to be able to perform at major meets. Are the British swimmers under so much pressure to perform that they cannot live up to expectations?

Aussiebabe

31-07-2005, 01:01 AM

I think Bill has done a god job in raising the standard of British Swimming and more improvements will come in the next few years. My only concern is that in ten years at the Australian Institute of sport, with all the backing they get and all the facilities in Australia at his disposal, he still did not produce one Olympic gold medallist. Can he really take this team to the very top in the next 7 years (Which is what has to be the aim now) or will he still only manage to have a very average British team. Thankfully the choice is not with me!

Aussiebabe

31-07-2005, 01:04 AM

Are the British swimmers under so much pressure to perform that they cannot live up to expectations?

I'd like to know which swimmers are not under pressure at the World Champs?

Woodward

31-07-2005, 03:11 AM

At the grass roots level things are going well judging by the youth movement in evidence at the recent youth festival. I think that's the biggest positive impact point on a programme right there.

I do think that the QT standards are a little draconian. There are a few swimmers from other countries whose pb's would not have qualified them for the British team yet they are now world champions.

I'd like to know which swimmers are not under pressure at the World Champs? I don't think any of the US swimmers (aside from Phelps) had to contend with quite the same level of outside pressure, certainly not from their swimming body or team officials.

Taxiandbank

31-07-2005, 05:36 AM

July 29, 2005

Medal-shy Britain hit by lack of ambition
From Craig Lord in Montreal

WAITING for British medals at these World Championships is like waiting for Godot. There have been promises, hints, times on paper that suggest the imminent arrival of success, expectations and whispers, but in the end, tomorrow never comes.

Four days of racing have gone by since Caitlin McClatchey took the bronze medal over 400 metres freestyle last Sunday. Darren Mew and James Gibson in breaststroke? Sunk without trace. Melanie Marshall and Rebecca Cooke in freestyle? Well shy of best. Perhaps Chris Cook in the sprint breaststroke or David Davies over 800 metres freestyle? They did their best but that was not good enough.

James Goddard, Gregor Tait, Katy Sexton in the 200 metres backstroke? Doubtful. The women’s 4 x 200 metres quartet? A slim chance. David Davies on Sunday in the 1,500 metres freestyle, over which he won the Olympic bronze medal? Much more likely, and you can guarantee he will not go down without a world-class fight.

Standards are exceptionally high at these championships but that is not the problem. At the World Championships in 2003, three years into Bill Sweetenham’s rule as performance director, Britain won eight medals, the best result in their history. They were the most improved nation in the water, the talk of world swimming. Those same people are now asking: what went wrong?

Ian Turner, the Britain head coach, acknowledges “some very disappointing swims”. There were “no excuses”, while explanations were many, but the performance at the Olympic Games in Athens last year — despite two bronze medals and more Britons in finals than ever before — left spirits so low after the highs of 2001 to 2003 and resulted in mistakes that have made matters worse.

Wrong result, wrong response. While almost half of the Olympic team retired after Athens — Karen Pickering, the 1993 world short-course champion over 200 metres freestyle added her name to that list yesterday — many of those who remained took lengthy breaks that they insist were necessary. Warnings delivered by Sweetenham after Athens fell on deaf ears and many are still falling well short of necessary training volumes.

At least half of the small squad of 18 in Montreal appear to be either ill-prepared or unprepared to race hard, just a week before they have to qualify in Sheffield for an England team that will race next spring in Melbourne at the Commonwealth Games. Low ambition, poorer result.

“It has to be asked of some British coaches as to whether getting someone on a team is sufficient or whether getting someone to international recognition is the ambition,” Turner said.

Good question given results from Loughborough based swimmers.

Phil Tanner

31-07-2005, 07:35 AM

At the grass roots level things are going well judging by the youth movement in evidence at the recent youth festival.

Among top-level swimmers, certainly. But it's worrying how many meets are cancelling altogether or running with fewer sessions than planned because of a drop in entries. For the sport as a whole to thrive, it needs to thrive at both ends of the spectrum. The good swimmers are getting much better, but fewer seem to think the sport is one to stick with.

greenfly

31-07-2005, 07:59 AM

They are thinking that if they don't get a world class top ten time they will never get any international experience.Then if they do the experience is frightening being up against the worlds best for the first time

Phil Tanner

31-07-2005, 08:27 AM

Is it a strategic error to have set very tough CG qualifying times before the Worlds? The policy has now failed twice running, but they seem to be locked into it for a third time.

Spidey

31-07-2005, 10:14 AM

Need help here, seems to be a link to another swim chat room like this, but I see no pictures, just what seems to be Dutch words :rainbow:
I see it now, a one haned touch, thank you, I did scroll down this time to the video link - wow. :rainbow:

Tara

31-07-2005, 10:30 AM

[QUOTE=Woodward]At the grass roots level things are going well judging by the youth movement in evidence at the recent youth festival. I think that's the biggest positive impact point on a programme right there.
[QUOTE]
Strictly speaking grass roots level is not the results of the youth festivals. If you wanted to improve grass roots you would need to increase the number of kids coming into swimming (mass participation), improve the standard of swimming teaching, ensure children who show the talent for swimming are fast tracked into GOOD swimming clubs, improve the standard of swimming in primary schools, educate school teachers to recognice swimming talent and send them into swimming programmes etc etc.
Putting money into children who show huge talent by winning age groups etc and who are already in the sport should not be confused with improving grass roots of the sport as this is not the case.

crawler

31-07-2005, 11:19 AM

Is it a strategic error to have set very tough CG qualifying times before the Worlds? The policy has now failed twice running, but they seem to be locked into it for a third time.

I wonder what will be the reaction from Bill and the powers that be after Montreal? It just won't wash to say that "we were the best prepared team...." when just about all across the board the swimmers are failing to produce pbs or in most cases get anywhere close.

Our selection policy has failed twice at least now and must be changed . I'd rather see the top 2 at trials selected from now on. This allows swimmers the chance to rise to the occasion and improve their times, rather than failing to reach previous heights.

Thinking about the number of events where we had no representation just makes me think we missed opportunities in so many events.

An example is the mens 100 Fly. I remember Todd Cooper being so gutted to miss qualification. His target was 52.50 and he "only" swam 52.85 at Swansea.

In his 5 swims at Trials and Stage 3 meet four of his times would have made the semis in Montreal. IF he had swum his 52.85 he would have placed 4th in the heats, 7th in the semis, and 5th in the final.

No guarantee that he would had done this but as a 22 yr old swimmer who has shown constant improvement over the last couple of years, he is exactly the sort of swimmer who should have been there.

One example only but I am sure there are plenty of others. Do we all agree that there has to be change, and are we likely to see it?

Bazza

31-07-2005, 11:45 AM

It's also worth thinking about if the standard is improving in British swimming - trials will start to become more competitive to make the top 2, as they are in Australia and USA.

I do think one of the articles posted here made a good point though, expectations have been lifted (by the performances at trials), so although it is disappointing the number of medals won in Athens and Montreal, and rightly so given some of the performances produced in trials, Fukuoka, Manchester, we are clearly in a better position than 5-7 years ago (remember no medals in Sydney, 2 bronze in Perth 1998 world champs), we just need to work out why our swimmers have suddenly started flopping at the major champs and maybe it is the increasingly tough selection policies, I don't know.

londonboy59

31-07-2005, 12:18 PM

Greetings again everyone,

It may interest you to know that we did get a chance to interview Sweetenham for 5 Live yesterday - Nick Gillingham did about 12 minutes with him..and, without giving too much away, as I'd like you to hear it, the overall thrust of his comments were: The swimmers stayed out of the water too long after Athens, the coaches are still not up to scratch and we need to import more and that we have neglected youth for the last 20 years and the future is looking very bright because of the teenagers coming through.

Now as to when that will be aired, can't give you a specific at the moment.

I'm hopeful that some of it will go out on Sport on 5 today - can't guarantee though, or alternatively if there isn't enough time this afternoon then on Sport on 5 tomorrow. All I can say is listen at around 4 today and I may be able to give you a steer.

Crawler - as for Todd Cooper, I heartily agree with you. I was really upset for the lad - who is working hard, trying hard, and improving all the time.. True he wouldn't have beaten either Crocker or Phelps, but another finalist in a week where they have been few and far between, would have been nice.

Anyone share my optimism about Liam for tonight? I made, what many thought was a bold, or foolish, statement that he could get a medal in the 50 back. I had no takers amongst former swimmers and colleagues alike.
He goes into tonights final ranked 2 and, seemingly, with no fear and after smashing the BR. Master Tancock I salute you and hope to be cheering you to the rafters later.

There is also a feeling amongst the small British media corps that David might miss out tonight - I have to say that is not shared by me..but, in essence its 4 swimmers for 3 medals - so somebody will.

Thoughts appreciated as always, frankly I think DD looked so controlled yesterday morning that he is in with a shout of a silver.

Take care everyone....Bob Ballard

Phil Tanner

31-07-2005, 12:34 PM

the overall thrust of his comments were: The swimmers stayed out of the water too long after Athens

Interesting, but you then have to ask why they did. It can't have been because they were satisfied with their performances. Reading between the lines, it sounds as if for some the issue was not when they would resume training, but IF they would. In some cases the experience seems to have been enough to put them off the sport. Half the team jacked it in.

The frankly sycophantic Times report profile linked here about BS as a great motivator says he banned air conditioning in Athens because he wanted swimmers to be accustomed to the heat. Is that true? How many people would that motivate?

Fine if the hairy-chested approach produces results. But it is yet to.

I worry that the seniors' failure will hike the pressure on some of the fantastic younger teenagers coming through.

Steve

31-07-2005, 12:35 PM

Anyone share my optimism about Liam for tonight? I made, what many thought was a bold, or foolish, statement that he could get a medal in the 50 back. I had no takers amongst former swimmers and colleagues alike.
He goes into tonights final ranked 2 and, seemingly, with no fear and after smashing the BR. Master Tancock I salute you and hope to be cheering you to the rafters later.

I made a similar prediction, although not <i>quite</i> as strong: see http://www.pullbuoy.co.uk/worldprofiles.php?action=show&id=4 . I can't honestly see him winning it, but his confidence must be sky high so he must have a real chance of a podium finish. I think Rupprath is still the one to beat, depite his 4th placing in the semis, but the Greek chap did look good in his semi. If Liam can stay off the lane rope he will have a great chance. Just a shame it isn't an Olympic event.

There is also a feeling amongst the small British media corps that David might miss out tonight - I have to say that is not shared by me..but, in essence its 4 swimmers for 3 medals - so somebody will.

Thoughts appreciated as always, frankly I think DD looked so controlled yesterday morning that he is in with a shout of a silver.

I reckon that's purely a consequence of the 800m result, which I don't think is entirely representative of his chances in the 1500m where endurance is much more of a factor than raw speed. That said, Hackett looks nigh on invincible (incidentally his 4x200m anchor leg was the 5th fastest relay split ever; a certain Australian in a big black suit holds the fastest 4...) and having been interviewed on Aussie TV he is very confident of swimming a PB,and hence a world record, as long as he doesn't turn up feeling rough.

Jensen must be the favourite for silver after the 800m and the way he changed his pace in the middle of that race is a big warning to Davies and Prilukov if they want to challenge him for second place. Based on the 400m results, I think (hope?) Prilukov mght have been training a bit more down the distance range so hopefully won't be able to go the full distance, espcially if the medals are won in the 14:40 range which looks likely. That would hopefully then give Davies the bronze.

One thing we do know is that David will give it everything he's got and will leave it all in the pool, so if he does come up short it won't be for lack of trying, which Craig Lord seemed to be implying in a number of cases in his Times articles.

So I think it will be close for third but I'd go for: 1. Hackett 2. Jensen 3. Davies 4. Prilukov- i.e. a replay of Athens. Fingers crossed!

Bazza

31-07-2005, 02:29 PM

I agree about the 1500 - everything is pointing towards Hackett, Jensen, Davies, Prilukov in that order - lets hope whatever happens it's at least a bronze for Davies. :)

As for the 50 back, I was impressed with Tancock's semi swim - 2nd and a British Record, but then saw the names in the second semi. They didn't deliver yesterday, but Rupprath, Welsh and Bal all have the pedigree to swim quicker so I'd still say Tancock is an outside chance at best.

Katie

31-07-2005, 02:29 PM

I know I have said this before and people are probably getting bored of it, but whilst all the young swimmers (i.e. the mexico girls) are very very talented and exciting for the future, I find it slightly wearing that British Swimming appear to have completely forgotten/couldn't care less about the Claire Windeatts of this country who are performing really well and pretty consistently and not getting any recognition. (wow that was the longest sentence ever). Obviously these girls are exciting for the future, but what about NOW? Surely we should be bringing forward those who are NEARLY there, like Terri Dunning, Amy Konowalik, and Claire Windeatt to give them some incentive to carry on swimming as well as bringing them on into these big meets, rather than pretty much skipping a whole age band of swimmers and concentrating solely on these younger swimmers?

I know I would say that as I am in that age band, but I know perfectly well that right now I am not fast enough to count myself as "just missing out" on any of these teams... it just seems tough on these people who are trying to balance their studying and swimming with little or no assistance or support, and who have worked just as hard as every other swimmer around. Don't think I'm saying these young swimmers don't deserve the funding and support they are receiving, because they are incredibly talented and obviously exciting for the future for British Swimming, just that maybe a few of the older swimmers could benefit similarly.

I think there is a point in there somewhere... :)

londonboy59

31-07-2005, 02:38 PM

Can be heard on 5 Live at 4.15 pm today on Sport on 5 - its only 4 minutes of an 11 minute interview but I think you will get the gist.

Interesting observations about Liam - I still think he has a decent medal chance - and, yes, Rupprath is the man to beat - not predicting a Tancock victory - but I think the boy can get a bronze - which would be a fine effort.
Nobody, I notice, is talking about Kate's chances.

Can she beat Zoe - if she does then Uncle Bill will be pleased..don't think there's a medal though for Miss Haywood - but I'd love to see it.

Off to my lofty perch in the media stand now - chat later - maybe see some of you in sunny Sheffield later in the week.

Best wishes - Bob Ballard :)

Leprechaun

31-07-2005, 04:05 PM

Can be heard on 5 Live at 4.15 pm today on Sport on 5 - its only 4 minutes of an 11 minute interview but I think you will get the gist.

Best wishes - Bob Ballard :)

Caught it during various Sunday afternoon chores. Too much time off seems the message (coaches fault not necessarily swimmers if I heard correctly). Whine whine about budgets. Your point about the good ones getting there from 25m 36 2/3 yard or whatever pools seems very valid though. Additionally even if lottery funding is still considered to be mean, it is still far more than the stars of yesteryear received so that kicks that one into touch. Sadly there is an increasing parallel (personal opinion only) with the athletes who look "comfortable" on lottery funding , particularly the sprinters (the runners I mean).

It was either you or Nick that said our swimmers looked in awe of the big names. If they are posting the pbs elsewhere that they have, and are in good condition then the shortfall seems to have its roots in psychology and experience. Time to revert to the first 2 past the post policy that was mentioned above. If you are good enough to be on a world stage then off you go and compete! How else can you get international competitive experience? As opposed to prove that you might make a final and we will let you go.

wendy

31-07-2005, 04:15 PM

The funding will of course be more than the stars of yesteryear received, but surely the point is to keep up with what other nations are providing for their athletes, my guess would be that the gap is (in real terms) far greater now than in the past.
We have had some fantastic swimmers that have trained in odd size pools, but how many slipped the net, should we not at least try to give our athletes a fair shot? why hold them back? Build the flippin pools!!!

Phil Tanner

31-07-2005, 04:18 PM

Must say BS is much more convincing when you can hear him rather than just reading what he has to say. His pitch would have been first-class in the context of someone seeking a job, but it's a bit lame from someone who has been doing the job for several years.

londonboy59

31-07-2005, 06:13 PM

I know we have contributors from far and wide and not everybody was in range of a radio on Sunday afternoon - so if you would like to hear what Bill Sweetenham had to say on Sport on 5 today - go to the listen again feature on the 5Live website: www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive - the interview went out at about 4.14 today.

For those watching the coverage on BBC2 tonight - Bill is due to be interviewed live at about Midnight 20 - and there might be a surprise interviewer..nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more..only might though.

Good luck to the three British swimmers in action tonight - and also, may I say, to Laszlo Cseh who is top qualifier for the 400 IM and was such a star of the Europen Juniors in Glasgow two years ago.

Enough from me for now....Bob B :music:

Woodward

31-07-2005, 08:07 PM

Putting money into children who show huge talent by winning age groups etc and who are already in the sport should not be confused with improving grass roots of the sport as this is not the case.
Yes, they are not the same but I didn't think they were mutually exclusive.

At any rate, I think a substantial grass roots effort would be great. Contrary to what some think it isn't a Catch 22. It would help spur interest in the sport to have successful athletes but it is not a prerequisite. There has to be other draws to the sport.

Woodward

31-07-2005, 08:13 PM

the overall thrust of his comments were: The swimmers stayed out of the water too long after Athens
Grant Hackett and Aaron Peirsol took extensive time off after Athens. They both commented on their post-Athens pool hiatus at their respective trials.

I'm also confused because I'd read shortly after the games that the British swimmers would be going back in the water straight away. I'm sure I read this can anyone confirm?

Gina

31-07-2005, 09:11 PM

Grant Hackett and Aaron Peirsol took extensive time off after Athens. They both commented on their post-Athens pool hiatus at their respective trials.

I remember Aaron Peirsol had extensive time off after Athens and he still broke the world record in the 100m back. You can say he is a class above many swimmers on backstroke, but he still broke a WR after having time off. I always think taking some time off does help. At Hillingdon, we had the choice of having 4 weeks off after summer nationals. After the first year of joining, I took that time off. I felt more fresh and trained much better than I ever had and swam on of my best meets at the winter nationals, ever (some of my times still remain from 2000).

I'm quite young, and I never really followed swimming before Sydney, so I might be wrong. However, I never really thought we did much better than a couple of medals at each Olympics. We have never been like America in the pool and I think we expect way too much at each major meet.
Also, in a wider view of sport. It's not the same as many countries like Russia and USA. You see in tennis especially, they put their heart and soul into it as it basically there only way out of a life of hardship. In the USA, sport is varied and is very well paid. If you represent your country you are looked up to as a hero. In the UK being successful in sport comes second to being acedemic (apart from Foot