Commonwealth Trials [Archive] - SwimClub.co.uk Forums

crawler

03-08-2005, 11:47 AM

When times were first published I saw that Dickons had already done the C time on 200 Fly. I don't think anyone other than her and Francesca Halsall (close in the 50 FS) can reach a C time, without thinking about race positions.

Consider (as an example) though the times for womens 200 Free of A=1.58.36,B=1.59.03,C=2.00.68

If you look at English women then there's Mel Marshall and Jo Jackson but thats about it. Julia Beckett has been mentioned recently on other threads - a young swimmer who would no doubt benefit from CG experience but that C time is just so steep.

UPDATE
I looked at the C times across the events and have to say the English team could be extremely slim on this criteria. Scottish swimmers feature prominently.
Max budget is for 36 swimmers - I wonder what they would do if automatic qualifications led to a team size of say 6!
Anyone (go on Bazza!) want to estimate the English qualifiers if times were based on current pbs?

aswim

03-08-2005, 01:20 PM

Simmonds just 0.35 out of 100bc ctime. Whether she can do this or not? I would say gandy is just out of reach for these times.(tho i my need to eat my words) And dickons already made 200bf time so i think will make again

KJ89

03-08-2005, 01:42 PM

lizzie swam the C and B (are they supposed to be the same) qualifying standard for the 200 Back in the final at the stage 3 meet so we will be cheering her on to get it again but she will need to place higher than the fourth she achieved there

Bazza

03-08-2005, 05:26 PM

I'll have a go then, based on the rankings on the ASA site:

A
200 Free - Simon Burnett (But I seem to recall spotting he wasn't in the draft programme?)
1500 Free - David Davies
50 Breast - Chris Cook, James Gibson
100 Breast - Mew, Gibson, Cook
50 Back - Tancock
100 Back - Goddard
200 Back - Goddard
200 Free - Mel Marshall
400 Free - Cooke, Jackson
800 Free - Cooke
50 Breast - Haywood
100 Breast - Haywood
200 Back - Sexton, Proud

B
200 Free - Ross Davenport
50 Back - Matt Clay
100 Back - Tancock
800 Free - Kerri-Anne Payne

C
50 Fly - Foster
200 Fly - Mark Lewis
100 Free - Mel Marshall
200 Free - Jackson
50 Fly - Brett
100 Fly - Brett
200 Fly - Dickons
50 Back - Sexton
100 Back - Sexton, Marshall
400 IM - Cooke

So all in all a pretty small team - my impression is that anyone who gets a B time will go and anyone who gets a C time will probably go as the team doesn't look like threatening the max limit of 36!

Linny

03-08-2005, 05:28 PM

200 Free - Simon Burnett (But I seem to recall spotting he wasn't in the draft programme?)
He was, just not where you were looking for him - oh unless the one you are looking at is different.
Wow I hope the ASA are gonna change the colours on the results page - http://asaftp.sportcentric.net/sports/swimming/results/2005/asayc05/webpages/

Postscript - it's changed thank goodness pink and purple or whatever it was before was just too hard. Thank you whoever you are, love from Linny x x :love:

Gold Swimmer

03-08-2005, 06:48 PM

i dont get what the A,B and C groups are?

crawler

03-08-2005, 09:26 PM

I take it David Davies is Welsh so knock one off - is Ross Davenport English despite his name?

These times even a C level seem too high a standard for a qualification for an event like the CG. However can this fit into the planning for Beijing 2008 if it excludes such a promising crop of swimmers from such an important meet.

This will be an interesting week!

Linny

03-08-2005, 09:47 PM

Don't forget there is also the European Championships later on in 2006. I guess (duh) it's much cheaper to send to Budapest than Melbourne and isn't it top 25 in the world times rather than top 10 so more will get to go - no Australians or Americans though (double duh) :p :rolleyes: ;) .

londoner62

04-08-2005, 11:39 AM

At least we'll have more finalists/medallists over this weekend :joker: :p
All the latest results at Commonwealth Trials Results (http://asaftp.sportcentric.net/sports/swimming/results/2005/asayc05/webpages/)

chris_lamb

04-08-2005, 12:07 PM

At least we'll have more finalists/medallists over this weekend :joker: :p

I wouldn't like to guarantee it :D

crawler

04-08-2005, 02:19 PM

I thought the day 1 heats results showed some encouraging signs for the semis tonight.
A few surprises with Gemma Spofforth way out of the 100 Back in 26th, and Kirsty Balfour scraping in to the 100m Breaststroke semis in 15th.

The Bath girls Stacey Tadd and Alexandra Warren going well and good to see Alex Savage featuring. The times should be interesting tonight.

Kris Gilchrist 200 Brs in 2.15 shows he means business and the mens 200 FS should make for a good final idc - hope this group can really push their times down as 4 were under 1.52 in heats.

The swimmers from this forum looking as though they are doing very well :) great to see.

londoner62

04-08-2005, 02:28 PM

Good to see Robin Francis make the semis of the 200 free and 200 breast, he's due for a big swim.

Linny

04-08-2005, 04:47 PM

I see that just about everyone (youthwise) is electing to swim the semifinals. Is this sensible? I dunno, I wouldn't have thought it would work for everyone. I guess it depends on what your coach thinks and whether you have a heavy programme. It has made me wonder though about the choices folk are gonna make for their finals.

Is there any benefit to swimming in the "senior" final if you are a youth swimmer and you have little chance of making the time for selection?

The withdrawal procedure says that progression to the Commonwealth selection final is by way of semifinal (youth swimmers don't have to swim it) so......... will this mean that if say in the womens 100 breastsroke where only 7 of the swimmers entering the semis are "senior" swimmers that if all the youth swimmers choose to swim in their youth finals after the semis, that the "senior" final would be underpopulated?

Are there any events that are likely to be even lighter on senior swimmers?

It's very complicated, I'm glad I'm not recording. Hats off to the folk doing the paperwork!

Bazza

04-08-2005, 05:06 PM

Great swim from Simon Burnett - 1:47.26 in the semi to smash the British record! Carry and Davenport also wnt under 1:50 so hopefully can push the qualifying times in the final.

As for forgetting Davies is Welsh, all I can say is oops!

dogstroke

04-08-2005, 05:53 PM

IThe withdrawal procedure says that progression to the Commonwealth selection final is by way of semifinal (youth swimmers don't have to swim it) so......... will this mean that if say in the womens 100 breastsroke where only 7 of the swimmers entering the semis are "senior" swimmers that if all the youth swimmers choose to swim in their youth finals after the semis, that the "senior" final would be underpopulated?

no, cos they'll want the chance to be on the telly! - (sorry Linny) but seriously, i'm probably being a bit thick here but is the reason the youth are doing the semis ;
1/ because they have to do them to get in the trials
2/ because they have to do them to get in the youth final

or that they don't need to do them at all for either, they would go through to either final on times alone. if so, surely it should have been fastest sixteen for the semis leading into the final for the trials (which would better replicate competition conditions) and just do the youth finals on remaining swimmers times? any swimmer winning a medal this year knows in their heart it's likely to be devalued by the proximity of the trials. Besides, I've always had the view that you're only ever racing the clock until you get the chance to represent your country.

Mac

05-08-2005, 05:30 PM

some fast swimming in the finals so far particularly Simon Burnett's 1.46.5!! Ross Davenport did the B time i think. Good to see Lisa Chapman swimming well (a C time, just). Liam was only just outside his best but did the A time and dragged Matt Clay to a B time.

Katy Sexton's 100 bk was a return to form with Mel not too far behind. The 200 fly gilrs were just outside the qualification times but with 4 of them on 2.12 i expect to see a couple of them get the C time, at least, at the Stage III meet

Bazza

05-08-2005, 05:53 PM

Incredible swim from Simon and I believe only 5 men have ever been faster (Thorpe, vdH, Hackett, Phelps and Keller)!

Does anyone know why Craig Gibbons is swimming at the US Nationals and not in Sheffield?

ringer

06-08-2005, 11:09 AM

Backstroker in dead heat for 10th spot in 200m back this a.m.

Exciting swim off in prospect (oh no....no exciting swim off cos there are semi's)

SearchforSpeed

06-08-2005, 04:03 PM

I saw SBurnett went 22.45 in the heats of the 50 free. (Below C standard of 22.47) He's swimming really well. With that kind of speed it'll be very interesting to see his 100m Free. Not just a great 200 swimmer - maybe our very own British VDHoogenband! Go Simon!

Linny

07-08-2005, 06:59 PM

Is there any benefit to swimming in the "senior" final if you are a youth swimmer and you have little chance of making the time for selection?I can see more benefit now. I hadn't realised that you could still be a junior or senior youth champion or medallist if you swim in the trials final - oops.
I thought the BBC coverage was great, I am sure that some would have liked to see more swimming (well I would have too) but personally I liked the mix.

Baker

07-08-2005, 08:31 PM

Absolutely brilliant from Burnett, although will Foster still be able to go as he beat the C standard?

SearchforSpeed

07-08-2005, 09:44 PM

MF also did a C standard in the 50 fly only 0.02 over the B standard. I hope he's back to his best for the Stage 3 meet so there won't be any question. Perhaps losing his 50 free British record to SB will sting him into wanting it back! It would be great to have two world class sprinters fighting it out with the best of them, but if Schoeman swims the way he did in Montreal we know who the winner will be.

Woodward

08-08-2005, 04:26 AM

I saw Simon swim in a couple of meets out here this year and I'm not surprised he's doing well. I'm a little surprised he decided to forego Worlds though.

I guess he didn't want to train to peak twice in one year and as a more experienced swimmer he's looking longer term. I probably just answered my own question. :cool:

Leprechaun

08-08-2005, 10:05 AM

I thought the BBC coverage was great, I am sure that some would have liked to see more swimming (well I would have too) but personally I liked the mix.

I was delighted (beforehand!) to see the amount of time given to the coverage but I don't think they used it particularly well. For a start they were late starting (3:010 or so not 3pm) because some gardening makeover/repeat was overrunning. There was no info to say why this was happening and it was annoying given our club had a swimmer in the first final.

No offence intended to Clare Balding but I don't think she added anything other than acted as a catalyst for general silliness and banter. Sadly the other commentators - for whom I have a lot of respect for their knowledge - came across more like Baddiel and Skinner.

And to go on a bit more....we dont have teach ins with Beckham during football matches, so why oh why were Steven Parry's demos scattered randomly throughout the coverage?

I applaud the efforts to get more coverage and to broaden the interest but I thought they managed to louse it up for everyone.

The swiming itself was great and should have been shown better than it came across.

Tara

09-08-2005, 09:09 AM

Would just like to say thanks very much to the coach and swimmer who didn't bother withdrawing from the 100m freestyle semi-finals so that I didnt get a second swim despite there being a spare lane...

We waited round til 1pm to check that no-one had withdrawn and were told that unless some-one tripped over or injured themselves there wouldn't be any withdrawals (and seeing as the swimmer that pulled out was in a later semi I take it she didn't) so I was advised to withdraw myself.....

I really hope they get the £50 fine....

Chris

09-08-2005, 09:48 AM

mad4it

09-08-2005, 10:19 AM

crawler

09-08-2005, 10:49 AM

Just back from my wee holiday and checking out the results, there has been some pretty good swimming! Does anyone know why if you go to the results from the first day, i.e. Womens 100m Breaststroke Heats you get the results for 14/15 and 16/17 but not the open swimmers?!? Kerry did an amazing swim (1.09 (!) in the final) and its my job to record all the times and I can't find her heat result anywhere!

Nope it wasn't like it a few days ago but is now.

I wanted to chart a few things and saw the same problem with mens 200 FS and womens 50m FS. I've looked again and it is a problem with first session as I am missing data on mens 200 FS and Breast heats and womens 50 FS 100 Back and 100 Breast.

Can you contact ASA about it please??

Gina

09-08-2005, 01:50 PM

Well if you look at the top 20 from the heats, it appears that Hannah Wilson from Ealing did not swim the semi-final, yet appeared in the 50 butterfly semi final a few events later....

I was there for the evening session as when I saw there was an empty lane, I thought it was so rude as you should have swum. She pulled out of the Open 50 free final so she could swim the age group final, so why didn't she do that in the 100?

Phil Tanner

09-08-2005, 03:42 PM

Tara -- assuming you have named the correct swimmer over the withdrawal, I'm 99% sure she was the one whose status was clarified after a youth final as eligible only for a commemorative medal rather than whichever one the results suggested because she was an overseas competitor, having represented Hong Kong at the Worlds. Might this have meant she wasn't eligible to take up the swim, rather than having failed to take it?

Tara

09-08-2005, 04:07 PM

Yeah, thats a fair point, but as far as I am aware "foreign" swimmers were able to take part in semi finals and not in finals. This was the semi for the 100m free, and she took part in the semi of the 50m fly a few events later, and Gina might be able to confirm-the semi of the 50m free as well??
And if this was the case, the Omage office would have not have listed her in the start sheets for the 100m semis.
She appears to be the only swimmer from the heats that didnt take part in the semi's.

Phil Tanner

09-08-2005, 05:10 PM

Simon Burnett is indeed awesome.

A couple of gripes. I know it's all down to the selection policy dictating that swimmers may may only tackle an event at stage three if they have done it at trials, but it is a nonsense if senior internationals are forced to slouch in cyclically seeded centre lanes to meet this stipulation (as happened in one event) while youth swimmers are left to flog it out in the outermost lanes. IIUC this was because the programme had been altered to accommodate the TV coverage, but why not alter the rules as well and retain the integrity of the event for the paying public?

Second, the video screen is (or should be) largely redundant. It's not Glastonbury with the performers half a mile away. Everyone has a great view without it. The resolution is too poor to help identify swimmers and in any event the camera is across the pool from the bulk of the seating so what appears on screen doesn't match what's happening in front of your eyes.

So why during the heat sessions did they show more or less continuous video footage of the race in progress, with the lists of starters and results appearing for only a few seconds? No deletions were read out, no effort was made to identify swimmers in the water, but the announcers did find time to plug the session DVDs continually and make regular announcements to the tiny minority of swimmers this would involve to remember to collect their CG availability forms.

And I thought it was completely bonkers that Rebecca Cooke could set a new British 400 IM record and still be announced as three seconds short of a CG time.

Bazza

09-08-2005, 06:01 PM

And I thought it was completely bonkers that Rebecca Cooke could set a new British 400 IM record and still be announced as three seconds short of a CG time.

Why? Could you expand on this please Phil.

Phil Tanner

09-08-2005, 06:26 PM

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. It's the content I think is bonkers, not the announcing of it, the fact that a new British record can still be so far off an arbitrarily set qualifying time. It just makes the sport look ridiculous. Surely to goodness a national record set within months of Commonwealths ought to be enough to get someone to the team? (I realise that this case the heavy programme she would already be swimming might preclude the IM as well, it's the principle I was thinking of.)

Why not say "top 10 in the world this year (or whatever the stipulation is) or a national record at trials or stage three if slower than this"?

Kate

09-08-2005, 06:44 PM

It's the content I think is bonkers, not the announcing of it, the fact that a new British record can still be so far off an arbitrarily set qualifying time. It just makes the sport look ridiculous. Surely to goodness a national record set within months of Commonwealths ought to be enough to get someone to the team?

I agree with you Phil - and lots of others do too.

Also agree with your comments about the screen - it was very easy to miss the start list!

I wasn't keen on the youth finals where no one in fact won a medal, because other youth swimmers had swum faster in the commonwealth final.

It's also a shame that there were no youth semis.

Katie

09-08-2005, 08:56 PM

Well if you look at the top 20 from the heats, it appears that Hannah Wilson from Ealing did not swim the semi-final, yet appeared in the 50 butterfly semi final a few events later....
The way it worked was, we hung around til the half hour limit was up (around 12pm) were told no-one had withdrawn so myself and the 2nd reserve had to withdraw so that in the unlikely event that someone injured themselves we would not be fined. We returned at 1pm, and were told no-one had withdrawn...So went home.....
If someone had been injured or ill I wouldnt mind, as thats just bad luck....This is just bad luck too, but caused by someone else, unless of course there was a really good reason behind it??

I wasn't having a great meet anyway, have an ear infection, so if I'd been at my best it wouldn't have been a problem. But there was an empty lane in the semi and I could have been in. I love racing, at my best or not, so of course I would have taken the chance......

Tara, just to let you know that Hannah definitely did withdraw, as she told me she had already done so before the session had even ended. I don't know whose fault it was but it wasn't hers. Also, if she hadn't turned up it surely would have said DNC in the results, and she simply doesn't appear in them. I think there must have been some communication error there, but it was really unfair on you.

Katie

09-08-2005, 09:07 PM

Have to say, it was a really cool meet but I did feel for the Youth swimmers, their Nationals were made to seem really insignificant and, especially on the first day or so, it was ridiculously confusing trying to work out who'd finished where! Sunday evening was absolutely ridiculous, the warm up for the finals started at 1.45 and we were finally out of there at around 7.30! Unbelievable.

Simon Burnett was definitely the swimmer of the meet, although apparently not on points as Liam Tancock won top male, I believe. I thought Chris Cook swam really well too, and so did Katy Sexton, Jo Fargus and Jo Jackson... and loads of people. Kate Richardson!!

Lane4, I thought your club's blow up mattresses on poolside thing was a stroke of genius! I can't believe no one's ever done that before!

I had a really good meet, as I went in hoping to make a final and ended up making 3 which was really exciting, especially as I've never made finals at a major long course meet like this before. :) Did some PBs too which is always nice.

Good swim by Natasha tonight, 59 on her 100 free!!

Gina

09-08-2005, 09:17 PM

Gina might be able to confirm-the semi of the 50m free as well??
And if this was the case, the Omage office would have not have listed her in the start sheets for the 100m semis.
She appears to be the only swimmer from the heats that didnt take part in the semi's.

She was in the 50 free semi final and also the 50 fly semi final the same session as the 100 free semi final as Tara pointed out. It was a case of her wanting to make the 50 fly final and not having to do the 100 free semi as she was in the age group final for that event. However, she overlooked the fact that she needed to pull out of the 100 free semi to let other swimmers compete!

Katie

09-08-2005, 09:33 PM

Hello, read it, no she didn't, Gina!!!

Gina

09-08-2005, 09:40 PM

Hello, read it, no she didn't, Gina!!!

Sorry, I was reading each post and answering after I had read each individual one, so hadn't seen yours.

Well done for making 3 finals. I was sitting next to Simon C's dad and, I think, some of the Leatherhead parents. They were very pleased with your swims. I was aiming to make a final (50 free) but it wasn't to be.

lane4

09-08-2005, 11:52 PM

Lane4, I thought your club's blow up mattresses on poolside thing was a stroke of genius! I can't believe no one's ever done that before!

Thanks. We like to bring in the new trends. ;) About 3 years ago, we were the only club to bring the 'camping style' chairs for coaches to sit on and now, virtually EVERY coach has one on deck! Like you said though, some of the sessions were ridiculously long so its good to have something for the kids to chill out on for a while.

Well done on your swims Katie - I thought you had a great meet.

Tara

10-08-2005, 06:19 AM

Tara, just to let you know that Hannah definitely did withdraw, as she told me she had already done so before the session had even ended. I don't know whose fault it was but it wasn't hers. Also, if she hadn't turned up it surely would have said DNC in the results, and she simply doesn't appear in them. I think there must have been some communication error there, but it was really unfair on you.

She told you before the session had ended or told you she had done it before the session had ended??

I'll ask the ASA about it. Not that theres anything they can do about it now, but I'm intrigued to how they can have got it wrong when they seemed to have a good system in place of immediately announcing withdrawals and going out to the start sheets on the wall and ammending it. They also looked through the list of withdrawals when I was there at the 1/2hr cut-off mark and there was definitely not one from the top 20, so they must have lost it pretty quickly if that was the case.

londonboy59

10-08-2005, 10:44 AM

I really enjoyed the Commonwealth Trials - there, I've said it...my image now shot to pieces.

Simon Burnett was, undoubtedly, the star but there were many good performances at all levels and if I was feeling a bit flat after Montreal, which I was, Sheffield restored my faith in the future somewhat.

There are still a few black holes - but even the Aussies and US can't cover everything.

Well done particularly to the mid-20's boys namely Chris Cook and Anthony Howard. Cooky picked up where he left off from the World Champs - and Anthony has made the relay and is agonisingly close to going sub 50..well done fella.

And particularly well done to Ian Oliver at Newcastle for the way he's brought Chris through when many had written him off...and Mr Howard's erstwhile coach a certain Mr Foster!

Katie

10-08-2005, 11:08 AM

She told you before the session had ended or told you she had done it before the session had ended??

I'll ask the ASA about it. Not that theres anything they can do about it now, but I'm intrigued to how they can have got it wrong when they seemed to have a good system in place of immediately announcing withdrawals and going out to the start sheets on the wall and ammending it. They also looked through the list of withdrawals when I was there at the 1/2hr cut-off mark and there was definitely not one from the top 20, so they must have lost it pretty quickly if that was the case.
She told me before the session had ended that she had pulled out of the final :)

Tara

10-08-2005, 11:26 AM

Oh right, just a little confused cos I spoke to you pretty much at the end of the session and said I was first reserve!

Anyway its all beside the point, what a mess if the ASA did manage to loose the sheet,not update the start sheets,not announce it, but then refind the sheet, and take her off for the final session...

Tara

10-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Well done particularly to the mid-20's boys namely Chris Cook and Anthony Howard. Cooky picked up where he left off from the World Champs - and Anthony has made the relay and is agonisingly close to going sub 50..well done fella.

And particularly well done to Ian Oliver at Newcastle for the way he's brought Chris through when many had written him off...and Mr Howard's erstwhile coach a certain Mr Foster!

I totally agree....I think there is a general attitude to right off swimmers in their 20's, which especially for males is crazy...And Chris Cook has certainly proved many doubters wrong. If Mew and Gibson can get back to their best, am sure one of them will go sub-minute soon!

crawler

10-08-2005, 11:34 AM

There was a comparision done after the World Champs trials comparing GB and Aus times for 10th and 20th places in heats for each event, to indicate the relative strength in each event.

I put together a sheet last night comparing GB times at the Commonwealth Games trials against the World Champs trials in this way i.e. 10th and 20th best in heats and there looked to be a noticeable improvement in standard particularly for the men.

I will add the WC Stage 3 results and Olympic Trials 04 over the next day or two and will post against about the trends.

KJ89

10-08-2005, 12:01 PM

well i enjoyed my day at nationals put a few more names to faces saw katie & tara swim their 200 free and walk past the vulcans camp a couple of times i swam ok pb'd in my 100 fly moved up the rankings in my age group to come 13th not bad considering i didnt qualify for nationals last year. now next year same age group hopefully higher up the rankings in the final :)

Katie

10-08-2005, 02:41 PM

Ah sorry Tara, was not totally clear on my timings! I believe I saw you just before I left to go upstairs as we met at the results wall! And then I scampered off upstairs where I bumped into Hannah at the Speedo stand and that's when she told me she'd already pulled out.

KJ89, you should have tripped me up or something and said hi!! Well done, you must be really pleased with your results. :)

hannah<3

11-08-2005, 06:30 PM

hey tara im sorry you didnt get to swim in the semi for the 100 free but i did withdraw before the end of the session!! i wouldn't pay £50 to not swim.. i wouldve swum otherwise.. the ASA forgot to take my out thats why i was still in the finals programme.. and i couldnt swim in the commonwealth final as i am not eligible to as i have swam for hong kong before... was a bit harsh of you before to say all that stuff altough i do see your side of it.. well just letting you know that katie was right and i did actually pull myself out of the semi and didnt just leave an empty lane.

Tara

11-08-2005, 07:53 PM

was a bit harsh of you before to say all that stuff .

I apologise if it came across harsh but...don't tell me that-tell it to the ASA! They specifically told me that no-one had withdrawn so of course thats what I was going to think! Funnily enough you don't presume the national governing body for your sport is lying to you!

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. It didn't cross my mind that the ASA would make such a basic and huge mistake and obviously in hindsight I shouldn't have believed them and presumed you were in the wrong! I do intend to write to the ASA about it, not because getting a second swim was such a big deal, but because it made both myself and you look bad.

Slowcoach

21-08-2005, 05:48 PM

You are partly right. Also Simon was not fit for the World trials. He was not allowed to compete without a qualifying time.

swimprincess

24-08-2005, 03:14 PM

those stupid £50 fines i got one bcoz of not pulling out the youth final to swim the the commonwealth one wen i understood it as you only had to pull out if you wernt going to swim in the commonwealth final not that u had to say you wernt swimming in the youth and it wasnt like it was any hassel they just assumed i wanted to swim the the commonwealth one anyway and notifyed the reserve for the youth so wot was the point in fining me!?!