Bill's Seminar

[Pete]

Was anyone at Bill's seminar on Sunday 9th October? If so was there anything interesting worth sharing?

[Vincent]

Who's Bill?:rainbow:

[Martin-Y]

Hi Pete

It was interesting, I particularly liked Ian Turners views on coaching 200m freestylers and not having met B.S. before, I thought he came across very well. I certainly think he earns his money and then some. Apparently his first day off in 16 weeks and he chooses to spend it with coaches from SE Region.
Not so impressed with Tim Jones who I thought gave out mixed messages that I personally think don't sit comfortably with LTAD. He was not impressed visiting clubs that had young kids plowing endlessly up and down with poor technique but the standard necessary to get on the program couldn't easily be achieved by technique alone.
Have a word with Andy, he was there.
Interesting also that the emphasis of these coaches seems to be based on middle to long distance and a swimmer wanting to compete solely at sprint events would have trouble finding the necessary support to climb onto the world stage.
75k is the distance per week to keep you in favour apparently.

[Chris]

75k is the distance per week to keep you in favour apparently.

Well I'm in with a shout then ;)

[Martin-Y]

I also felt that the coaches at this level have lost touch with the problems in grass roots small town clubs.
They coach a few committed, driven swimmers.
We coach many indifferent and fitness swimmers.
We coach 5-9 swimmers per lane (25m)
We have many indifferent or non existant parental support.
Not enough pool time. Not enough swimmers who would want the extra pool time.
In some cases poor quality/unusual length and ageing pools.
Pool management that don't understand the needs of competative swimming, pool temperature creeping above 31 degrees because they have to cater for oldies and learn to swim programmes.
Answerable to committees.
High percentage of membership fees just pays for pool time
High percentage of teachers and coaches that rush home from a full time job to stand on poolside for 3 hours as volunteers.
Anything else I have missed?

[Martin-Y]

Ooooo 100 posts, lookout GF I'm coming your way.

[ringer]

Martin Y has whetted my appetite for more info and I wonder if he is willing to give a bit more detail as to the inferences/changes of emphasis re 200 freestyle coaching.
The new emphasis on middle to long distance confirms my concerns that they are inordinately supporting freestylers at the peril of shorter distance form swimmers.
Were reasons given as to why the "Art of Sprinting" is just no longer considered to be de rigeur? (other than that old hoary chestnut about non-Olympic events and the BS brief) There's more to the successful representation of the nation and one's own personal achievement than the Olympics in my view. Our top sprinters are undervalued!!
We have seen the results of such lack of support in the defection of Zoe Baker and the experiences of GB's other world class sprinter Mark Foster.
GB is particularly strong at distance free at present with the likes of Davies Cooke and co but concentration on the stronger areas for the future will only succeed in dumbing downthe possibility of achievement in our weaker areas.

[lane4]

Were reasons given as to why the "Art of Sprinting" is just no longer considered to be de rigeur? .

Name a top class sprinter on the international scene who did not train high volume / distance / aerobic base when they were in their early teenage years?

[lane4]

I also felt that the coaches at this level have lost touch with the problems in grass roots small town clubs.
They coach a few committed, driven swimmers.
We coach many indifferent and fitness swimmers.
We coach 5-9 swimmers per lane (25m)
We have many indifferent or non existant parental support.
Not enough pool time. Not enough swimmers who would want the extra pool time.
In some cases poor quality/unusual length and ageing pools.
Pool management that don't understand the needs of competative swimming, pool temperature creeping above 31 degrees because they have to cater for oldies and learn to swim programmes.
Answerable to committees.
High percentage of membership fees just pays for pool time
High percentage of teachers and coaches that rush home from a full time job to stand on poolside for 3 hours as volunteers.
Anything else I have missed?

Which is exactly why they want you to send any good swimmer you get to them! They'll put the icing on after you've baked the cake. ;)

[stevenewman1]

The feedback I got was that Bill is awarded money for each Olympic medal he achieves by different swimmers. So:

One medal - one lot of money
Two medals, same swimmer - one lot of money
Four medals (say 4x 100m relay) - four lots of money!

Thus lots of emphasis on relay teams.

Our Coach, who went, also thought he was extremely funny

[ringer]

Is that BS's personal productivity/performance related pay bonus or is that future govt. investment in British Swimming?
If the latter no prob. If the former then one wonders......

[stevenewman1]

I have got to admit the funding was explained to me but I did not understand it. The money for medals was quite clear but I am not sure from whom. I believe a lot was said at the conference about lack of money - but I was not there so cant confirm

[Martin-Y]

The only money that goes to World Class Programme is from Sport England. The amount is based on the performance at the previous Olympic Games.
It is based on medallists and I think finalists. If one swimmer medals 3 times that is still only 1 credit/1 medalist. He stressed the importance of the relay squad because one good performance/medal can equal 4 credits of funding.
B.S. was in good form laughing and joking and came across really well IMHO. I think I am a convert!!

[Baker]

Name a top class sprinter on the international scene who did not train high volume / distance / aerobic base when they were in their early teenage years?

Schoeman?

[fastest1]

Schoeman?

Well thought Baker! Unless i'm very much mistaken Schoeman didn't start swimming till he was 15 - and he ain't bad at the whole sprinting thing. ;)

[happySwimmer]

Anything else I have missed?

Too much admin!

[Tara]

Not so impressed with Tim Jones who I thought gave out mixed messages that I personally think don't sit comfortably with LTAD. He was not impressed visiting clubs that had young kids plowing endlessly up and down with poor technique but the standard necessary to get on the program couldn't easily be achieved by technique alone.
Have a word with Andy, he was there.
Interesting also that the emphasis of these coaches seems to be based on middle to long distance and a swimmer wanting to compete solely at sprint events would have trouble finding the necessary support to climb onto the world stage.
75k is the distance per week to keep you in favour apparently.
I think you have raised a few interesting points here in your summary. People come away from these seminars and try to give a summary of what they have been told. One way or another what comes out is the "meterage that needs to be done to succeed". This, to me, is a dangerous way to be promoting "Bills message". For two reasons :
1. If you do 75km a week does this mean you will definitely make the Olympic team. No. If you don't do 75km a week does this mean you won't ever make the Olympic team, No. Should every swimmer do 75km a week, No. Bill knows this, I know this, probably you all know this, but some people don't know this. As you have raised about Tim Jones, he's not impressed with visiting clubs who plough up and down with bad technique-using the throw 500 eggs at the wall and one might not break approach.
Secondly, I am sure that this is not what Bill is promoting. First and foremost its the technique, technique under fatigue, racing technique, training technique, starts and turns technique, kicking technique. Secondly its the ability to plan a training programme, not increasing a swimmers meterage so much that it injures them, overtrains them. Whats going to happen if club X which usually does 25km a week hears that "Bill has said we need to do 75km a week" and they immediately start doing this, with an uneducated coach and swimmers with poor technique! We all see it every meet, a swimmer whos technique has been sacrificied for getting the "meterage in".
So, its more important to educate the coaches as to how to teach great technique, individualise training programmes, periodise training programmes, and create an enviroment so that every swimmer reaches their potential whether they do it on 75km a week or 25km a week.
And the most important thing is training programmes need to be individualised. Not every great swimmer has come off a background of 75km. There are some that have, some that haven't, some that were racing at 6 years old, some that didn't race til they were 18. Some that have done a lot of land work, some that have done no land work. What every one of them has had though, is a training programme that suits them, and a coach that has found that training programme.

[Martin-Y]

So, its more important to educate the coaches as to how to teach great technique, individualise training programmes, periodise training programmes, and create an enviroment so that every swimmer reaches their potential whether they do it on 75km a week or 25km a week.

You raise a good point here Tara, but where is the coach education program. I know there are CPD's to attend and there is a worldwide web of information out there if you look hard enough but there are a shortage of Level 3 courses especially in the South, there should be more coaching seminars and there seems to be a reluctance among coaches to share ideas. I think it was Bills comment that coaches should go along to another club, chat to other coaches etc but this mindset is blocked because coaches don't generally like sharing information and certainly don't want to invite another coach to his club for fear of his/her swimmers being "poached". There needs to be openness, willingness to share, so we can raise the coaching levels across the board.

[Linny]

I think it was Bills comment that coaches should go along to another club, chat to other coaches etc but this mindset is blocked because coaches don't generally like sharing information and certainly don't want to invite another coach to his club for fear of his/her swimmers being "poached". There needs to be openness, willingness to share, so we can raise the coaching levels across the board.I have never found this to be the case. I believe that time rather than willingness is the main problem, at the level I work at anyway.

[Pete]

The time for coaches to network is during breaks at Meets. I love sitting down and sharing ideas. In my years of coaching I have made many coaching friends. We don't see each other away from meets but sitting down over lunch gives us the opportunity to share ideas. Unfortunately there are coaches out there who remain rather insular; but that is their loss. Coaching forums would be great but is the club going to pay for you to attend? Who is going to take training in your absence? Many small clubs run on a very limited budget and with very limited coaching cover.
Give me a day with other coaches, I would love it. In Surrey we used to have these days but somewhere they got forgotten. " Bring back Elaine!" she was great at organising these things.

[Katie]

Hehehe!! She was indeed a good organiser :)