Team England

[ringer]

Taken from the BBC website posted today

"Reigning Commonwealth swimming champions James Gibson and Rebecca Cooke will aim to defend their titles in Melbourne next year.
The duo were both selected in England's 26-strong team for the March Games.
Cooke prepares to defend her 400m and 800m titles while Gibson aims to repeat his success in the 50m breaststroke.
Veteran Mark Foster returns after being left out of Great Britain's squads for the 2004 Olympics and 2005 Worlds.
The 35-year-old will represent England at his sixth Commonwealth Games.
Simon Burnett, an Olympic finalist in the 200m freestyle in Athens, is also among the more experienced members of the squad.
European junior 100m freestyle champion Fran Halsall will make her Games debut at the age of 15.
Matt Walker, who won a gold and two silvers at last year's Paralympics, is chosen to represent England in the elite disability field.

Team England swimming squad:
Julia Beckett, Matt Bowe, Ros Brett, Simon Burnett, Matt Clay, Chris Cook, Rebecca Cooke, Chris Cozens, Ross Davenport,Terri Dunning, Mark Foster, James Gibson, Fran Halsall, Kate Haywood, Anthony Howard, Jo Jackson, Melanie Marshall, Darren Mew, Dean Milwain Kerri-anne Payne, Kate Richardson, Alex Scotcher, Katy Sexton, Amy Smith, Liam Tancock, Matt Walker."

[Steve]

So we are only sending one EAD swimmer. I find that quite surprising given GB's success at Paralympics etc. Are most of the medallists from the other home nations or did they suffer a similar spate of retirements as the able bodied squad?

[lane4]

I found it surprising too. Scotland is only sending one disabled swimmer as well. Perhaps the home nations have at last realised that the balance needed to be redressed?

[Vicki]

So we are only sending one EAD swimmer. I find that quite surprising given GB's success at Paralympics etc. Are most of the medallists from the other home nations or did they suffer a similar spate of retirements as the able bodied squad?

Quite alot of the medalists in Athens were from Wales. However, disabled swimming is only a demonstration event in the Commonwealths so there is only the 50 and 100 free - i know a gold medalist from athens who wont be going because hes a breaststoker.

[Katie]

Really? I could have sworn they had many other EAD events in the Manchester Games?

[JustSwim]

At Manchester they had multi-disability events that meant that the winner was the closest to their category world record (or broke it by more than anyone else). They were promised a full program of events following the success of disability swimming at Manchester but that has not transpired. The knock on effect is that such great swimmers as Sascha Kindred and Nyree Lewis (both of whom are world record holders and multi Gold Medallists at Athens) find it impossible to qualify for Melbourne as their best events do not feature! Something very wrong here!!

[Vicki]

Something very wrong here!!

Too true!!

If they have all disability events at the Olympics i think they should do at the commonwealths esp. as the home nations are dominate!

[lane4]

Too true!!

If they have all disability events at the Olympics i think they should do at the commonwealths esp. as the home nations are dominate!

Important point to remember here: There are NO disability events at all in the Olympic Games!


All disabled events take place in the Paralympics, a few weeks after the main event. I see no problem if they were to have a Parawealths to cater for the disabled folks at this level in the same way.

[Vicki]

Important point to remember here: There are NO disability events at all in the Olympic Games!




Pardon my mistake, i did mean the para-olypmics but i think people knew what i meant. No need to go OTT in pointing it out!

[chris_lamb]

All disabled events take place in the Paralympics, a few weeks after the main event. I see no problem if they were to have a Parawealths to cater for the disabled folks at this level in the same way.
Why not include athletes with a disability in the main event?

[lane4]

Why not include athletes with a disability in the main event?

Here are just two of 1000's of possible answers to this question...
1) For the same reason they are not included in the Olympics.
2) Ask the reverse question first - why include them?

[lane4]

Pardon my mistake, i did mean the para-olypmics but i think people knew what i meant. No need to go OTT in pointing it out!

I hope you meant the Paralympics, the "para-olympics" don't exist[OTT emphasis omitted for effect]? ;):D:devil:

[chris_lamb]

1) For the same reason they are not included in the Olympics.


Which is?

2) Ask the reverse question first - why include them?

Because they are world class athletes the same as their able-bodied colleagues and deserve to be able to compete at the highest level in the same way.

[Vicki]

I hope you meant the Paralympics, the "para-olympics" don't exist[OTT emphasis omitted for effect]? ;):D:devil:

Are you or have you been a school teacher? You make me feel like im about 12 and have been naughty :devil:

[JustSwim]

Here Here Chris. I couldn't agree more.

[Vicki]

Because they are world class athletes the same as their able-bodied colleagues and deserve to be able to compete at the highest level in the same way.

I completely agree - dont they train and try as hard as any other athlete? they deserve to be there as much as James Gibson etc.

[JustSwim]

Yes Vicki, they do train just as hard as able bodied athletes. I would also be bold enough to say that they also have had to battle adversity and (sadly) overcome prejudice.

[Vicki]

Yes Vicki, they do train just as hard as able bodied athletes. I would also be bold enough to say that they also have had to battle adversity and (sadly) overcome prejudice.

I've worked with the Welsh disabled squad and they're an inspiration, they really are. And they're families also give up so much for them to get there-even the small things like driving 45mins to get to the pool twice a day because they are not able, i know alot of parents do that but not when they're in there 20's, you know?

[lane4]

Okay, so should we include all people who have had to overcome adversity, as well as anyone who trains as hard as elite able bodied swimmers? That would bring in lots of other groups, e.g. the special olympics folks, the deaf, the poor, the list could go on...

[ruthcp]

Which is?



Because they are world class athletes the same as their able-bodied colleagues and deserve to be able to compete at the highest level in the same way.

Absolutely, but surely in their own stage?
I don't think combining the two has any merit for either, imvho! :read:

[JustSwim]

They could have their own stage at The Commies. The games last for two weeks whilst the swimming lasts for one. That gives them one week to provide the EAD swimmers with a full programme!!

[wendy]

Absolutely, but surely in their own stage?
I don't think combining the two has any merit for either, imvho! :read:

I totally agree with you Ruth, two separate competitions. It's very difficult to run them together. Two different audiences for a start, I'm not convinced it's fair on either set of athletes.
What happens with disability gymnastics/boxing etc?

[ruthcp]

They could have their own stage at The Commies. The games last for two weeks whilst the swimming lasts for one. That gives them one week to provide the EAD swimmers with a full programme!!

No problems there, as long as the two things are kept as seperate events - not just for swimming of course, but all other disciplines.! :)

[ruthcp]

I totally agree with you Ruth, two separate competitions. It's very difficult to run them together. Two different audiences for a start, I'm not convinced it's fair on either set of athletes.
What happens with disability gymnastics/boxing etc?

My feelings exactly! :)

[JustSwim]

Okay, so should we include all people who have had to overcome adversity, as well as anyone who trains as hard as elite able bodied swimmers? That would bring in lots of other groups, e.g. the special olympics folks, the deaf, the poor, the list could go on...

Once again a tad OTT if not a little ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as either an "S" category for the poor or a poor Olympics. ps. The deaf have chosen to hold their own Deaflympics - a couple of swimmers from Stockport had to pay their own way!!

[ruthcp]

Once again a tad OTT if not a little ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as either an "S" category for the poor or a poor Olympics. ps. The deaf have chosen to hold their own Deaflympics - a couple of swimmers from Stockport had to pay their own way!!

I think L4 was using sarcasm there........his point is valid though! :)

[Vicki]

My feelings exactly! :)

I agree too they should be separate so it the event is appreciate for itself not just something added tot he abled bodied programme. Plus it would make the session way too long to have them all together. Different audiences indeed.

[NotVeryFast]

Okay, so should we include all people who have had to overcome adversity, as well as anyone who trains as hard as elite able bodied swimmers? That would bring in lots of other groups, e.g. the special olympics folks, the deaf, the poor, the list could go on...
Yes, and perhaps a special category for all the swimmers who are well under 6 feet in height, who train just as hard as the 6 and a half foot brigade, but will never be able to swim as fast due to their physical difference (which one might term a disability...).

Once again a tad OTT if not a little ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as either an "S" category for the poor or a poor Olympics.
Isn't that the whole point - that there are many other types of people who are disadvantaged in all sorts of ways, poor people who can't afford kit and fees are at a disadvantage, so they have to overcome adversity too, yet they don't have their own category or special Olympics.

[Linny]

Yes, and perhaps a special category for all the swimmers who are well under 6 feet in height, who train just as hard as the 6 and a half foot brigade, but will never be able to swim as fast due to their physical difference (which one might term a disability...).I so agree with you but please can we keep the special gender categories rather than make it a completely open competition? You know to give those of us who weren't "lucky enough" to be born with a Y chromosome a chance of a medal. :p

[NotVeryFast]

I so agree with you but please can we keep the special gender categories rather than make it a completely open competition? You know to give those of us who weren't "lucky enough" to be born with a Y chromosome a chance of a medal. :p
Oh yes, keeping the men and women separate is definitely a good thing, especially because in the 1500m at the ASA Masters this year, there were two women in my age group who swam faster than the male gold medallist, so we definitely don't want to have to compete against the likes of them :)

[Linny]

I was thinking of the other way round really but in thinking about it, IIRC you can compete in the Olympics as a female even if you have XY chromosomes (and the other way round in theory I guess) provided certain conditions are complied with like hormone therapy for a certain period of time. Maybe one day there won't be any "special categories" at all!

[Linny]

Back to Team England.

It was wonderful to see Simon Burnett nominated for the team (what a relief) but can someone who knows please explain how he fulfilled the selection criteria? I can see that "according to the letter" a swimmer didn't actually HAVE to swim at the stage 3 meet but why make the policy so strict and even use capitals when referring to ALL athletes having to attend ALL activities if it didn't really matter anyway?

I don't think that there wouldn't have been the level of speculation about him, warranted or not, had he swum in Swansea.

[Pete]

Simon was actually one of the few who qualified at the "Trials".

[Linny]

That's not what I meant. I meant -

4.7. ALL athletes (both qualifying athletes from the Trials and potential team members contesting for selection at the Stage 3 Meet) will be expected to attend ALL activities organised between the Trials and the Commonwealth Games 2006 as outlined in Table 3 below. Athletes resident and training overseas will not be required to compete in Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets provided they compete in an appropriate local meet on the same weekend as the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets and notify the ASA through the British Swimming office of this intention. Failure to attend the required activities could result in non-nomination or withdrawal from the team.

I think I've kind of answered my own question because of the word could in the last sentence. Never mind, I was just curious, I'm glad he did.

[Katie]

In my opinion, you can get away with pretty much anything with British Swimming if you're in favour, which Simon is (and rightly deserves to be!). It would, I'm sure, have given him a lot more benefit to stay at his uni and train than come back for a meet which is quite pointless for him.

I have noticed quite a lot that it's one rule for some and another rule for others where British Swimming is concerned :rolleyes:

[Bazza]

How is it one rule for some and another rule for others? Linny's quote quite clearly states:

Athletes resident and training overseas will not be required to compete in Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets provided they compete in an appropriate local meet on the same weekend as the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets and notify the ASA through the British Swimming office of this intention.

So as long as Simon did this I can see no problem with him not attending.

[Linny]

How is it one rule for some and another rule for others? Linny's quote quite clearly states:

Athletes resident and training overseas will not be required to compete in Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets provided they compete in an appropriate local meet on the same weekend as the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Meets and notify the ASA through the British Swimming office of this intention.

So as long as Simon did this I can see no problem with him not attending.And it doesn't say that for the stage 3 meet. The way it read was that the stage 3 meet was compulsory even if you thought you would be better off somewhere else.

[Katie]

Sorry, I didn't mean in this particular case, I just mean that is how British Swimming has appeared to me in my experience :rolleyes:

[GettingFaster]

Does anyone have any lists of the other home nations' teams?

[Katie]

From what I've heard the Welsh team has been a bit of a pig to sort out as they had some last minute changed to the rules, not sure if they've announced the 2nd batch of definites though. The Scottish team is:
BALFOUR, Kirsty 100m, 200m Breaststroke Edinburgh
BOOTH, Fiona 50m Breaststroke Edinburgh
BUCHAN, Kerry 100m, 200m Breaststroke Finzean
FERGUSON, Lara Multi disability 50m, 100m Freestyle Aberdeen
HILL, Stephanie 100m Buutterfly Derby
McCARROLL, Monique Diving – Platform Southampton
McCLATCHEY, Caitlin 200m, 400m, 800m Freestyle Brisworth
MILEY, Hannah 400m Individual Medley Inverurie
SMITH, Lorna 400m Individual Medley Paisley
CARRY, David 200m, 400m Freestyle Loughborough
CLARK, Ross 50m Breaststroke Dundee
COOPER, Todd 50m, 100m, 200m Butterfly Stirling
DALE, Euan 200m, 400m Individual Medley Duns
GILCHRIST, Kris 200m Breaststroke Edinburgh
HOUSTON, Craig 50m,100m Freestyle Dalry
HUNTER, Andrew 200m Freestyle Berkhampstead
JONES, Chris 50m Breaststroke Marlborough
LEE, Robert 50m Breaststroke Stirling
LEITH, David 50m Butterfly Edinburgh
RENWICK, Robbie 200m Freestyle Aberdeen
TAIT, Gregor 100m, 200m Backstroke,200m Individual Medley Barry

:)

[Bazza]

And it doesn't say that for the stage 3 meet. The way it read was that the stage 3 meet was compulsory even if you thought you would be better off somewhere else.

To me the lack of mention of the stage 3 meet suggested you didn't need to go there unless you were still trying to achieve qualifying times.

[Pete]

There is nothing on the Welsh ASA website about the Wales team. I know Owen Morgan is going; 50 Free and Fly.
The squad are getting together on the 27th Dec for three days and go out to Australia on 30th January.

[mad4it]

And obviously David Davies :D

[Katie]

Yes, I'm glad Owen's going :), they changed the rules so the 50m times were for the top 8 in the Commonwealth rather than the top 4... or something, I don't think that's quite right but near enough!!

[Linny]

Who is swimming what? Are there many or even any extra events for the swimmers that are going with team England?

[Pete]

The England team arrive on the Gold Coast at the weekend as I understand it. Same training centre as Wales. Bill, Ian and Don are already out there and have looked in on the Welsh.