View Full Version : Australian Commonwealth trials!
The Australian Commonwealth trials are underway today, and started with a WR by Jade Edmistone in the heats of the 50 breast (30.3). The only qualifying final to take place so far is the womens 200 free where Linda Mackenzie won in 1.58.4 ahead of Libby Lenton 1.58.5 and Bronte Barratt in 1.59.3 with the top 6 all under 2mins.
Interesting article on Jade (http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17981939-31903,00.html) from foxsports, and Libby (http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17980109-31903,00.html)
Taxiandbank
30-01-2006, 12:22 PM
Lorna Tonks 2.15.85 b final 200 IM quicker than any current "brits"
Jo Fargus 2.03 heats of the 200 FR goes in the 100 bk tomorrow.
lane4
30-01-2006, 12:54 PM
Men's 400 free was somewhat worrying for the Aussies without Hackett and Thorpe. It's conceivable that they won't even medal in this event! Scotland's David Carry favourite for GOLD I would say.
mad4it
31-01-2006, 12:15 AM
Surely Craig Stevens is going to be in the mix? After all, he was centre of the fuss surrounding the 400m Freestyle before Athens.
patlamb
31-01-2006, 08:39 AM
Surely Craig Stevens is going to be in the mix? After all, he was centre of the fuss surrounding the 400m Freestyle before Athens.
His talent being all in the footwork - a. Balance (on the blocks) b. a deft side step (to allow Thorpe in).
Not the credentials of a champion - nor is 3:50.
Libby Lenton swims 53.43 to break Henrys world record in 100 free semi's! Henry 54.5 and Mills 54.7, plus Melanie Schlanger on 54.9.
Katie
31-01-2006, 09:00 AM
Oh please, can that girl just STOP??? Was surprised to see Jade Edmistone go slower from heats to semis to finals in the 50 breast, I thought we might see another world record in the finals.
Looking forward to seeing what Lenton does tomorrow!!
lost_in_finland
31-01-2006, 09:04 AM
isnīt joanna fargus former brit?
http://www.swimming.org.au/meets_and_results/results_details.cfm?ObjectID=1674&RaceDay=2&RaceID=8147&FeaturedMeet=0
isnīt joanna fargus former brit?
http://www.swimming.org.au/meets_and_results/results_details.cfm?ObjectID=1674&RaceDay=2&RaceID=8147&FeaturedMeet=0
Yep, interestingly enough she featured in the finals of our commonwealth trials in August. Anyone else feel this is a little contreversial?? (that she could take up a place in our finals)
Linny
31-01-2006, 09:25 AM
Controversial that she should have taken part or controversial that anyone who wasn't English could?
lost_in_finland
31-01-2006, 09:35 AM
Thorpedo 1:46 200 fr... quite good....
Quite of short time while changing nations, if she swam in england also....
Controversial that she should have taken part or controversial that anyone who wasn't English could?
Well I believe that only those who were able to be selected for the Commonwealths were allowed to take a place in the final (this is the standard rule at Commonwealth events) - sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!
However if this was not the case the other can also apply ;) !
Thorpedo 1:46 200 fr... quite good....
Quite of short time while changing nations, if she swam in england also....
Apparently because she was a member of Miami SC last december/hadn't represented GB recently this meant she could switch...
Linny
31-01-2006, 09:43 AM
Well I believe that only those who were able to be selected for the Commonwealths were allowed to take a place in the final (this is the standard rule at Commonwealth events) - sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!
However if this was not the case the other can also apply ;) !I don't know the answer Tara and I wasn't trying to be funny or anything. It's just the event was the ASA trials, not GB ones as such although it was used as a qualifier for other home nations and there were plenty of non English people in the finals. I just wondered whether you thought the finals should really only be for English people being as that was the main opportunity the English had.
I don't know the answer Tara and I wasn't trying to be funny or anything. It's just the event was the ASA trials, not GB ones as such although it was used as a qualifier for other home nations and there were plenty of non English people in the finals. I just wondered whether you thought the finals should really only be for English people being as that was the main opportunity the English had.
I think maybe the rule might have been that people eligible for home nations could swim in finals-I remember Hannah from Ealing saying she couldn't swim because her nationality is Hong Kong....
I should have used "British" not "English"!
Tara
Please see your pm :flash:
Katie
31-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Welll... she doesn't seem (so far) to be swimming as well as she did at our trials. There's still her best event to come in the 200 back, but I think I'm right in saying that she actually could have qualified for England in this event based on her time in Sheffield in August (I'm sure someone will out me right here if I'm wrong!!) so let's hope she's not made the wrong decision... :)
lane4
31-01-2006, 12:33 PM
Yes Jo tried to make the English team in August, missed out, changed nationality, and is now trying to make the Australian team. It doesn't seem right to me either but there you go, we have to accept it as she is not breaking any rules.
Yes Jo tried to make the English team in August, missed out, changed nationality, and is now trying to make the Australian team. It doesn't seem right to me either but there you go, we have to accept it as she is not breaking any rules.
Thats exactly what I was thinking!
Great minds huh ;)
lane4
31-01-2006, 01:52 PM
Great minds huh ;)
Indeed, but it should be pointed out that I don't think trying to make the Aussie CG team was the primary reason for Jo's nationality switch.
Linny
31-01-2006, 03:13 PM
Yes Jo tried to make the English team in August, missed out, changed nationality, and is now trying to make the Australian team. It doesn't seem right to me either but there you go, we have to accept it as she is not breaking any rules.That's a bit harsh! How is this so? I will obviously bow to your superior inside knowledge lane4 but her application for a move was approved before the trials took place and was presumably submitted well before that so to say she "tried and missed out" seems to me to be innaccurate especially when one considers that on paper at least she was actually one of the swimmers who did swim within the qualifying times.
Whether or not (in light of the fact that this would obviously mean that she would not be eligible to swim for England, or indeed any home nation) she should have been allowed to swim in a final is another matter.
Whether or not (in light of the fact that this would obviously mean that she would not be eligible to swim for England, or indeed any home nation) she should have been allowed to swim in a final is another matter.
Do you think she should have been able to swim in finals?
Linny
31-01-2006, 07:01 PM
I can see valid reasons for allowing foreigners (and I include Scots and Welsh and everyone who isn't English here) to swim in the finals but I can also see reasons for excluding them. It depends on what the rules were and I can't remember them. I know you had to swim in the final to qualify for the English team but I don't remember if you had to be able to qualify to swim in the final (if you did then clearly there were concessions for the other home nations).
It doesn't really matter what the rules are provided they are reasonable, known by everyone and applied fairly. If the girl from Hong Kong was prohibited by virtue opf her nationality and Jo was allowed then the decision to allow her to take part is as you say "controversial" at best.
wendy
31-01-2006, 07:18 PM
I think maybe the rule might have been that people eligible for home nations could swim in finals-I remember Hannah from Ealing saying she couldn't swim because her nationality is Hong Kong....
I should have used "British" not "English"!
I think Hannah has duel nationality but has chosen to swim for Hong Kong and has been part of both their worlds and Olympic teams. You can swap nationalities of you like but surely it's right Hannah did not swim as you can only represent one at a time.
lane4
31-01-2006, 07:40 PM
I think Hannah has duel nationality but has chosen to swim for Hong Kong and has been part of both their worlds and Olympic teams. You can swap nationalities of you like but surely it's right Hannah did not swim as you can only represent one at a time.
Jo was in the England team at Manchester in 2002. Seem to remember her winning a couple of medals too.
Phil Tanner
01-02-2006, 07:32 AM
See this link for a good little report with audio:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1559598.htm
Libby takes the final from Jodie in 53.6 to 53.8, Alice in 3rd in 54.2. Six men under 50 in the 100 free semi including Ian Thorpe on 48.8.
Plus Leisel Jones breaks her own mark to swim 2.20.5 in the 200! Should be an exciting 100 with both the 50 wr breaker and 200 wr breaker against each other! (An impressive 1.1secs under her previous best!)
Steve
01-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Libby takes the final from Jodie in 53.6 to 53.8, Alice in 3rd in 54.2. Six men under 50 in the 100 free semi including Ian Thorpe on 48.8.
Plus Leisel Jones breaks her own mark to swim 2.20.5 in the 200! Should be an exciting 100 with both the 50 wr breaker and 200 wr breaker against each other! (An impressive 1.1secs under her previous best!)
Got to say that Leisel looked absolutely phenomenal in her 200. She was behind the WR pace at the 150 but just swam straight past the red line on the last 50. I reckon if she had got her finish 100% right she would have broken 2:20. Amazing!
Steve
01-02-2006, 10:36 AM
Yes Jo tried to make the English team in August, missed out, changed nationality, and is now trying to make the Australian team. It doesn't seem right to me either but there you go, we have to accept it as she is not breaking any rules.
Except that she had already applied for a switch of nationality before the trials. Which of course begs the question as to why she was swimming anyway. She swam tonight and was nowhere in the 100m backstroke final at the Aussie trials.
lane4
01-02-2006, 10:51 AM
She swam tonight and was nowhere in the 100m backstroke final at the Aussie trials.
Well she was 4th in 1:02.50. Fair enough if you think that is "nowhere" but I thought it was a pretty reasonable swim for her and bodes well for the 200, always her best event.
Katie
01-02-2006, 12:14 PM
I am very frustrated that the Aussie site isn't showing splits!! Am I being blind or is this the case?
I am very frustrated that the Aussie site isn't showing splits!! Am I being blind or is this the case?
This is the case, HOW ANNOYING! Usually you can click on the time and the splits come up-but not this time!
croberts
01-02-2006, 03:06 PM
While the Australian Swimming website looks nice, I don't see why they just don't post the Hy-Tek results. It would strike me as more efficient.
I was amazed to see Jones break the WR in the 200 breast. Not that I was surprised, but the amount she took off of it shocked me.
Pale Rider
01-02-2006, 09:33 PM
Jo Fargus going 1.02.5 on the 100 is a good sign for her, look out for a 2.11/2.12 200.
lost_in_finland
02-02-2006, 05:56 AM
Except that she had already applied for a switch of nationality before the trials. Which of course begs the question as to why she was swimming anyway. She swam tonight and was nowhere in the 100m backstroke final at the Aussie trials.
I can feel little bit bias here.... 4th is very good.....
You can switch to australian nationality fairly quickly, or so it seems....
Last one I remember was Kurtis MacGillivary who changed from Canada to AUS if I remember correctly......
Rachel_C
02-02-2006, 11:13 AM
I can feel little bit bias here.... 4th is very good.....
You can switch to australian nationality fairly quickly, or so it seems....
Last one I remember was Kurtis MacGillivary who changed from Canada to AUS if I remember correctly......
You betcha ya can, especially when sports is involved, I'd say!!!! ;)
A interesting article on Joanna Fargus was in The Australian a few weeks back ... for those who mightn't have seen it (I only recently stumbled across it myself...!)... Fargus dives in at the deep end (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17885083%255E2722,00.html)
Some great swimming so far at the trials - loving it!!
WR's galore for the girls! :)
Katie
02-02-2006, 12:03 PM
Ooh some splits up now, hooray! 100 fly amazing, Schipper wins in 57.15! Lenton 2nd in 57.3, Mills 3rd in 58.1... wow.
rubberduckie
03-02-2006, 02:13 AM
It is going to be very intimidating for the your girls to face the current Aust womens squad.:wave:
It is going to be very intimidating for the your girls to face the current Aust womens squad.:wave:
Its not going to be intimidating for them if our National performance director and his support staff have done their job properly, from your post in the Sweetenham thread you appear to think he's a great guy, so we surely shouldnt have a problem facing the current Australian womens squad.
Fargus wins 200 BC in 2.11.99.
A cracking 1.05.71 in the 100 breaststroke from Leisel Jones. Jade Edmistone was second in 1.07.0 and Tarnee White in 3rd with 1.08.2.
ruthcp
03-02-2006, 09:07 AM
Its not going to be intimidating for them if our National performance director and his support staff have done their job properly, from your post in the Sweetenham thread you appear to think he's a great guy, so we surely shouldnt have a problem facing the current Australian womens squad.
Nice one Tara!! :D
Katie
03-02-2006, 09:43 AM
Woooah Leisel Jones is flying! Quite surprised to see Brooke Hanson isn't doing better, although her IM and brst were still very good!
The Aussie women are swimming fantastically well but there has not been anything too special on the mens side of things. I'm sure the Aussie men will still swim fast at the Commonwaealths but there looks to be more opportunities for home nation medals in those events than in the womens.
Congrats to Jo Fargus - leaving aside the 'move', it is good to see her swimming well again
Vicki
03-02-2006, 10:56 AM
Im glad Jo has swum well. For her own sake it would have been harsh for her to change nationalities and it all to go wrong. She's a great swimmer and deserves to be at the Commonwealths. Well Done!!
rubberduckie
04-02-2006, 04:30 AM
:wave This lot is far from ugly.SEveral have million $$$ sponsorship deals including one being the 'face'of a British cosmetic co.
The few that are not so lucky in thelooks dept -the opposition wont be that close to notice.
Katie
04-02-2006, 04:08 PM
Hmm... (huge) full team now confirmed:
2006 Commonwealth Games Swim Team
Men Age Club State
1 Ben Austin 25 Warringah Aquatic NSW
2 Sam Bramham 17 Ivanhoe Neons VIC
3 Leith Brodie 19 Albany Creek QLD
4 Ashley Callus 26 Redlands QLD
5 Matthew Cowdrey 17 Norwood SA
6 Nick Ffrost 19 Southport Olympic QLD
7 Alex Harris 31 GAC Sharks VIC
8 Brett Hawke 30 Melbourne Vicentre VIC
9 Michael Klim 28 Klim Swim Trojans VIC
10 Josh Krogh 23 Redcliffe Leagues Lawnton QLD
11 Andrew Lauterstein 18 Southport Olympic QLD
12 Andrew Mewing 24 Miami QLD
13 Kenrick Monk 18 SAC Seals NSW
14 Travis Nederpelt 20 City of Perth WA
15 Adam Pine 29 Yeronga Park QLD
16 Jim Piper 24 West Coast WA
17 Andrew Richards 22 Smithfield NSW
18 Brenton Rickard 22 Carey Aquatic VIC
19 Christian Sprenger 20 Commercial QLD
20 Eamon Sullivan 20 West Coast WA
21 Matt Targett 20 Melbourne Vicentre VIC
22 Ian Thorpe 23 SLC Aquadot NSW
23 Matt Welsh 29 Melbourne Vicentre VIC
Women Age Club State
1 Bronte Barratt 16 Albany Creek QLD
2 Lara Carroll 19 Fremantle Port WA
3 Lichelle Clarke 19 Warragul VIC
4 Sophie Edington 21 Kingscliff NSW
5 Jade Edmistone 23 Redlands QLD
6 Joanna Fargus 24 Miami QLD
7 Sally Foster 20 Central Aquatic WA
8 Felicity Galvez 20 Chandler QLD
9 Melissa Gorman 20 Redcliffe Leagues Lawnton QLD
10 Brooke Hanson 27 Nunawading VIC
11 Jodie Henry 22 Chandler QLD
12 Leisel Jones 20 Commercial QLD
13 Lisbeth Lenton 21 Commercial QLD
14 Katrina Lewis 17 Woden NSW
15 Linda MacKenzie 22 Mackay QLD
16 Danni Miatke 18 Carey Aquatic VIC
17 Alice Mills 19 Chandler QLD
18 Kylie Palmer 15 Redcliffe Leagues Lawnton QLD
19 Sarah Paton 19 Telopea NSW
20 Shayne Reese 23 Carey Aquatic VIC
21 Jennifer Reilly 22 City of Perth WA
22 Stephanie Rice 17 St Peters Western QLD
23 Giaan Rooney 23 Melbourne Vicentre VIC
24 Jessicah Schipper 19 Redcliffe Leagues Lawnton QLD
25 Caroline South 17 Norwood SA
26 Kelly Stubbins 21 Haileybury Waterlions VIC
27 Prue Watt 19 Hunter NSW
28 Tarnee White 24 Chandler QLD
29 Annabelle Williams 17 Ashfield NSW
30 Tayliah Zimmer 20 Kingscliff NSW
Tara and I have agreed we are confused as to why Ashleigh McCleery's not on the team... must be something to do with rankings but this doesn't seem to make sense in terms of her world position contrasted with that of some other team members. Who knows :confused:
Phil Tanner
04-02-2006, 05:15 PM
Interesting that there must be well over 30 clubs listed.
NotVeryFast
04-02-2006, 05:29 PM
Interesting quote from Hackett regarding the selection criteria: "I am in two minds about it (the selection criteria). I think basing selection on world rankings is a bit harsh. I can understand Swimming Australia wants to set the bar fairly high, but I don't think it should be at the expense of a Commonwealth Games medal. I am a fan of choosing the team based on Commonwealth rankings."
So if I understand him correctly, he's saying that because the selection is based on world rankings, there are examples of people failing to get selected who could have won medals at the games. So it's not just here in the UK where people complain about this sort of thing :)
Aussiebabe
05-02-2006, 02:03 AM
Time needed to be faster then 18th world ranked time to be considered for selection, hence Craig Stevens not going for the 400Fr. Mens team very ordinary, whilst girls will pick up a bagfull of golds.
Remember this is not considered that major a meet to the Australians so don't get too carried away when the British teams do well :).
Chris
05-02-2006, 10:44 AM
Remember this is not considered that major a meet to the Australians so don't get too carried away when the British teams do well :).
You gotta be in it to win it ;)
Katie
05-02-2006, 10:48 AM
But Caroline South's 800 (I think) and Frances Adcock's 200 back are WAY outside the world top 18... confused!!
Aussiebabe
06-02-2006, 03:54 AM
So am I. Will look into it!! :confused:
NotVeryFast
06-02-2006, 09:04 AM
Sean has commented on this in his blog (http://www.swimsean.blogs.com/). If I understand him correctly, what has happened is that if a swimmer qualified for one event, they could then swim others where they were outside the required ranking. So did Caroline and Frances qualify for other events?
Here's their results from the meet.
Caroline South
Womens 200m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 35 Time: 2:05.32
Womens 800m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 1 Time: 8:42.09
Womens 800m Freestyle - Final Placed: 3 Time: 8:40.78
Womens 400m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 15 Time: 4:20.43
Womens 1500m Freestyle - TimedFinal Placed: 3 Time: 16:37.04
Ashleigh McCleery
Womens 200m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 1 Time: 1:59.80
Womens 200m Individual Medley - Heats Placed: 3 Time: 2:17.08
Womens 200m Freestyle - Final Placed: 6 Time: 1:59.87
Womens 200m Individual Medley - Final Placed: 5 Time: 2:17.22
Womens 100m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 19 Time: 57.24
Womens 100m Freestyle - Semi Final Placed: 12 Time: 56.89
Womens 800m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 4 Time: 8:44.19
Womens 400m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 2 Time: 4:13.06
Womens 400m Freestyle - Final Placed: 4 Time: 4:10.81
Womens 400m Individual Medley - Heats Placed: 4 Time: 4:51.65
Womens 400m Individual Medley - Final Placed: 3 Time: 4:46.20
Craig Stevens
Mens 400m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 1 Time: 3:54.82
Mens 400m Freestyle - Final Placed: 1 Time: 3:50.33
Mens 200m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 10 Time: 1:50.96
Mens 200m Freestyle - "B" Final Placed: 3 Time: 1:51.47
Frances Adcock
Womens 200m Freestyle - Heats Placed: 26 Time: 2:04.32
Womens 100m Backstroke - Heats Placed: 6 Time: 1:03.40
Womens 100m Backstroke - Semi Final Placed: 4 Time: 1:02.43
Womens 100m Backstroke - Final Placed: 6 Time: 1:02.73
Womens 50m Backstroke - Heats Placed: 9 Time: 30.24
Womens 200m Backstroke - Heats Placed: 4 Time: 2:14.24
Womens 200m Backstroke - Final Placed: 3 Time: 2:12.83
Linny
06-02-2006, 10:16 AM
The only selection thingy I could find is attached. The page is isolated from the rest of the document (which was uplifted from the swimaus website) but there doesn't appear to be any more info that is relevant. I think it clears the selections up, it does make Craig Stevens an unlucky man though.
World rankings for the whole of 2005 are available from Fina here
2005 rankings (http://www.fina.org/main/rankings/pdf/rank_SW_LC.pdf)
mad4it
06-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Going slightly back to the subject of Jo Fargus, found this interesting article giving the Australian spin on things on Swimming Australia - http://eswimmer.swimming.org.au/Issue%2044/Third%20News%20Story.aspx
Sean Piper
06-02-2006, 09:39 PM
This years trials turned out to be unfortunate for many swimmers. Craig Stevens, Kurtis MacGillivary, Ashleigh McCleery and Ephraim Hannant were the biggest casualties.
On the other hand, the lucky ones were Caroline South, Matt Targett and Andrew Lauterstein.
I can't remember a time in recent history when the team selection process has been so confusing. In 1998, the criteria was that EVERY medallist made the team and went to KL. Manchester was a little more strict, but this year seems a little over the top, especially considering the money Swimming Australia will be saving having the games at home. It's not as though they have to cough up for flights, accomodation, etc overseas for extra team members.
I don't see why the criteria couln't have been stretched to allow the two or three "near miss" swimmers to make the team. From what I can see it's only for the sake of sticking to their tight criteria.
Seems they are cutting of their nose to spite their face???
- Sean
lane4
06-02-2006, 10:33 PM
The big problem for the Commonwealth Games as a swim meet spectacle is that given the tough selection policies of certainly Australia and England, plus possibly others too, several events, particularly the distance events are going to have hardly anyone in them. The 1500 could easily be a straight final for example with Davies unlikely to ever come across an easier gold medal. IIRC, neither England, Scotland or Australia have selected anyone for the 1500 (although perhaps Nederpelt will be allowed to swim it for Oz?). The men's 400 IM is going to go a similar route and the women's 800 free is not likely to fair much better. In the men's 400 free with no Aussies at all (never mind Thorpe and Hackett!), it is not impossible to conceive that Scotland and Wales could round out the medals (Carry, Davies and Hunter or Renwick). Cutting off their nose to spite their face Sean? You bet!
NotVeryFast
06-02-2006, 10:46 PM
The big problem for the Commonwealth Games as a swim meet spectacle is that given the tough selection policies of certainly Australia and England, plus possibly others too, several events, particularly the distance events are going to have hardly anyone in them.
I totally agree, and I've raised the point in the past that if everyone in the world set similar selection criteria to Bill over here, the same would be true for other major competitions. It's almost as if it has become fashionable to have really strict selection criteria. Perhaps if the trend continues, competition organisers will need to start setting rules about minimum participation levels to ensure decent numbers of swimmers taking part?
Sean Piper
07-02-2006, 10:27 AM
I know Australia will be swimming Nick Ffrost in the 400m, and everyday Alan Thompson is pushing Ian Thorpe to step up and swim it as well. From what I'm hearing though, Ian has no interest whatsoever!!!! He is training purely for the 100m and 200m and doesn't believe he has the training behind him to swim a competitive 400m.
In my opinion though, Ian Thorpe is the kind of athlete who could stand up on any day of the year and swim a world class time. He's proven this time and time again. Anyone remember his 100m back at KL? Or his 1500m at NSW state titles??
Perhaps Thompson is betting on being able to persuade Thorpe to swim the 400m, therefore not selecting Stevens??
Otherwise, I feel the selectors have thrown away a Commonwealth medal!
- Sean
lane4
07-02-2006, 11:33 AM
In my opinion though, Ian Thorpe is the kind of athlete who could stand up on any day of the year and swim a world class time.
If Thorpe is fit enough to do a world class 200 he is certainly capable of winning the Commonwealth title in the 400, especially without Hackett. All he would need to do would be to cruise through 350 on the shoulder of the leaders (this would be so easy for him given his speed and background) and then blast the last length. After the favour Craig Stevens did him in 2004 for Athens, swimming the 400 in Melbourne is the least he could do to repay his country, if not Stevens directly. However, I suspect he has become too soft.
peterg
07-02-2006, 08:02 PM
According to Greg Hunter's biography of Thorpe, he is not interested in dominance; only in excellence. So if he's not in a position to challenge his PB, then he won't compete in the 400, even if he was a certainty to win.
Sean Piper
08-02-2006, 02:06 AM
According to Greg Hunter's biography of Thorpe, he is not interested in dominance; only in excellence. So if he's not in a position to challenge his PB, then he won't compete in the 400, even if he was a certainty to win.
That's all well and good, but by refusing to swim the 400, he is basically denying Australia a gold medal... PB or not!
However, I suspect he has become too soft.
I suspect that's pretty close to the truth. He's now looking too far into the future, and a life after swimming. While he is still able to perform at a world class level, his head isn't fully in the game.
- Sean
Sean Piper
08-02-2006, 03:03 AM
With the recent news that Kenrick Monk may step up in the 400m, I felt the need to rant a little:
http://swimsean.blogs.com/swimsean/2006/02/thorpe_is_a_goo.html
- Sean
rubberduckie
08-02-2006, 04:54 AM
Ian thorpe can do whatever he wants.
Chris
08-02-2006, 08:33 AM
Ian thorpe can do whatever he wants.
Profound ..... thanks for that!
:rolleyes:
peterg
08-02-2006, 03:46 PM
That's all well and good, but by refusing to swim the 400, he is basically denying Australia a gold medal... PB or not!
Are the five golds that he will probably win not good enough?
Sean Piper
08-02-2006, 09:55 PM
I think you're missing the point of this discussion peterg.
The fact is that five gold medals would be a wonderful effort... no doubt about it. For an athlete the calibre of Ian Thorpe though, it's not all that he is capable of.
If you were in a position to win a gold medal for your country at a Commonwealth Games, would you refuse? He's swimming for his country, not for his personal medal haul.
From what I can tell, the closest competition will come from David Carry swimming a 3.48:96. Thorpe has been 3.40:08. Anyone with half a clue can tell that Ian Thorpe has the ability to swim a 400m 8secs slower than his PB... race fit or otherwise.
As of now the point is moot. Australia has entered Nick Ffrost and Kenrick Monk for the 400m as of today. Two great blokes who will swim proudly for their country!
- Sean
lane4
08-02-2006, 10:29 PM
Are the five golds that he will probably win not good enough?
100 free
Gold - Schoeman, Silver - Burnett, Bronze - Neethling, 4th - Thorpe
200 Free
Gold - Burnett, Silver - Thorpe, Bronze - Neethling
4x100 Free Relay
Gold - South Africa, Silver - Australia, Bronze - Canada
4x200 Free Relay
Gold - Canada, Silver - Australia, Bronze - Scotland
4x 100 Medley Relay
Gold - England, Silver - Australia, Bronze - Canada
There's a few predictions for you, all of which are entirely possible, none of which include Mr Thorpe winning ANY gold medals, let alone five!
Yet Thorpe, if he had the guts, could swim the 400 free, 1500 free and 200 IM - and cruise to Gold in all three.
Sean Piper
09-02-2006, 03:07 AM
4x100 Free Relay
Gold - South Africa, Silver - Australia, Bronze - Canada
Hang on, hang on, hold on a sec... :)
The best team I can see RSA putting up would be:
SCHOEMAN 48.28
NEETHLING 48.34
TOWNSEND 49.96
FERNS 50.15
= 3:15.15
THORPE 48.71
KLIM 49.38
SULLIVAN 49.54
CALLUS 49.56
= 3:14.71 !!!!
Factor in home team advantage!!!! :cool:
Last time the boy's were at home in the 4 x 100 (Sydney 2000) they beat the USA, and three of the four team members are back again.
- Sean
peterg
09-02-2006, 09:04 AM
Lane 4, you're absolutely right that Thorpe might not pick up a single gold, although I really can't see it happening, and Schoeman has to be the favourite for the 100. (Do you think that the Arizona swimmers will have prepared as specifically for a non global championships as the Aussies?)
I also agree that he could probably cruise to gold in the 400 and 200IM, although surely not the 1500 against Davies.
Where I disagree with you is with your comments about a lack of guts stopping him from swimming the 400. Surely it takes more guts to take on the South Africans in the 100 than to swim up to 8 seconds slower than your best over 400 and win gold.
Yet Thorpe, if he had the guts, could swim the 400 free, 1500 free and 200 IM - and cruise to Gold in all three.
Realise you are just trying to be controversial but who are you to question Ian Thorpes 'guts' after all he has acheived in the sport. If the guy wants to restrict himself to 5 swims and miss the 400 FC (which I agree he could canter to a win) then that is his decision, no-one elses. Yes everyone wants to see him swim as much as possible but let the guy make his own decisions, I don't think he has to prove anything to you about his guts.
I think he might find it tough to 'cruise' to gold in the 1500 FC with David Davies in the field.
lane4
09-02-2006, 12:49 PM
Hang on, hang on, hold on a sec... :)
The best team I can see RSA putting up would be:
SCHOEMAN 48.28
NEETHLING 48.34
TOWNSEND 49.96
FERNS 50.15
= 3:15.15
THORPE 48.71
KLIM 49.38
SULLIVAN 49.54
CALLUS 49.56
= 3:14.71 !!!!
Factor in home team advantage!!!! :cool:
Last time the boy's were at home in the 4 x 100 (Sydney 2000) they beat the USA, and three of the four team members are back again.
- Sean
That's your guys at their best, but the times you list from Townsend and Ferns are untapered. Ferns has gone 48 standing start when rested.
You hark back to Sydney (when Klim and Callus were at their best as opposed to their current shaky form) yet you are are perhaps forgetting the much more recent and therefore relevant Athens:
3:13.17 South Africa,RSA
48.17 Schoeman Roland
48.13 Ferns Lyndon
48.96 Townsend Darian
47.91 Neethling Ryk
3:15.77 Australia,AUS
49.37 Klim Michael
49.07 Pearson Todd
49.19 Sullivan Eamon
48.14 Thorpe Ian
You have 2.6 seconds to make up!
NotVeryFast
09-02-2006, 12:59 PM
Plus the Australians will struggle to swim their best times when they're stuck in the South Africans' wake from start to finish if they're in the lane next to them, assuming the South Africans send Schoeman out first again.
Chris
09-02-2006, 01:06 PM
Out of interest, what's the best team the English can put out?
lane4
09-02-2006, 01:10 PM
Realise you are just trying to be controversial but who are you to question Ian Thorpes 'guts' after all he has acheived in the sport. If the guy wants to restrict himself to 5 swims and miss the 400 FC (which I agree he could canter to a win) then that is his decision, no-one elses. Yes everyone wants to see him swim as much as possible but let the guy make his own decisions, I don't think he has to prove anything to you about his guts.
I think he might find it tough to 'cruise' to gold in the 1500 FC with David Davies in the field.
Who am I to question him? I'm the same as anyone else who can have an opinion! That's all it is, an opinion. You have yours, you're entitled to it. I have mine, hope you can accept that it is different from yours.
Of course it is his decision! I never said it was anyone else's! And you're right, he has nothing to prove to me about anything, but I never said he did! Why do you keep questioning me on points I did not make!?
It is my opinion that if Thorpe had had the guts/desire/will power/hunger (whatever you want to call it) to train for the 1500, then he would have no trouble beating how good Davies is now, and probably Hackett too. In 2001, Thorpe broke the world record for the 800 free in 7:39, beating Hackett in the process, and it took Hackett a further 4 years to go 7:38. If Thorpe had pursued that kind of career direction since 2001 (like Hackett and Davies) I shudder to think how good he would have been now over 800 and 1500. And I contend that he could have done that - and still been just as good, if not better, over 100, 200 and 400. He has the talent and ability for it.
Sadly, I think Thorpe has allowed his true potential in the sport to go unfulfilled. I realise it must have been incredibly hard for him since as far back as 1998 with all the pressure and media spotlight on him but in swimming terms I don't think he has achieved what he could have done. And there are plenty others who think likewise. Up to 2002, Thorpe was setting world records for fun, how many has he broken since then? He should have stuck with Doug Frost!
NotVeryFast
09-02-2006, 01:30 PM
Sadly, I think Thorpe has allowed his true potential in the sport to go unfulfilled.
I've thought the same thing for a while now, but have refrained from saying it, because it seems so controversial. I think part of the reason why his technique looks so elegant could be because he's swimming "within himself" compared to the way swimmers who are less physiologically gifted have to swim to reach the top.
Who am I to question him? I'm the same as anyone else who can have an opinion! That's all it is, an opinion. You have yours, you're entitled to it. I have mine, hope you can accept that it is different from yours.
Of course it is his decision! I never said it was anyone else's! And you're right, he has nothing to prove to me about anything, but I never said he did! Why do you keep questioning me on points I did not make!?
I merely addressed the points you made with a different opinion to yours, I do not keep questioning you on points you do not make. I believe you were trying to be controversial but from time to time you can expect this to be challenged. Thankfully the way you have presented your next post has been far more balanced, imho of course.
It is my opinion that if Thorpe had had the guts/desire/will power/hunger (whatever you want to call it) to train for the 1500, then he would have no trouble beating how good Davies is now, and probably Hackett too. In 2001, Thorpe broke the world record for the 800 free in 7:39, beating Hackett in the process, and it took Hackett a further 4 years to go 7:38. If Thorpe had pursued that kind of career direction since 2001 (like Hackett and Davies) I shudder to think how good he would have been now over 800 and 1500. And I contend that he could have done that - and still been just as good, if not better, over 100, 200 and 400. He has the talent and ability for it.
I agree that had Thorpe trained consistently for those events he would probably beat Davies over 1500 however I don't think he would cruise to victory as stated whether he had trained for those events or not.
Sadly, I think Thorpe has allowed his true potential in the sport to go unfulfilled. I realise it must have been incredibly hard for him since as far back as 1998 with all the pressure and media spotlight on him but in swimming terms I don't think he has achieved what he could have done. And there are plenty others who think likewise. Up to 2002, Thorpe was setting world records for fun, how many has he broken since then? He should have stuck with Doug Frost!
Maybe he has not acheived his absolute full potential but he has acheived a hell of a lot and has been great to watch in the last 8 years or so. Lets hope he carries on for a while longer.
Nevilles polish
09-02-2006, 09:26 PM
Nice to see someone else has noticed that Scotland has a decent chance in the mens 4 x 200 m freestyle. They could win quite a few medals with Carry, Cooper and Tait all capable of a couple of individual medals each.
lane4
09-02-2006, 10:43 PM
Frankly it will be disappointing if Scotland does not win about 10 medals! The following are all looking like genuine medal contenders:
Men
400 free - Carry, Renwick
100 Back - Tait
200 Back - Tait
200 Breast - Gilchrist
100 Fly - Cooper
200 Fly - Cooper
200 IM - Tait, Carry, Dale
400 IM - Carry, Dale
4 x 200 Relay
Women
200 free - McClatchey
400 free - McClatchey
800 free - McClatchey
200 Breast - Balfour
400 IM - Miley
The lack of English, Canadian and Australian entries in many events has given Scotland a great chance to shine even more so than it would have done anyway. I'm sure the big three are going to regret what they have done!
Aussiebabe
10-02-2006, 04:03 AM
I'm sure the big three are going to regret what they have done!
I doubt it:)
Sean Piper
10-02-2006, 06:01 AM
lane4,
The relay will certainly be one of the most exciting races of the meet.
I have to agree, based on current form RSA are the better team on paper.
As a proud Aussie though, I'll go down fighting!!!! :)
- Sean
Frankly it will be disappointing if Scotland does not win about 10 medals! The following are all looking like genuine medal contenders:
Men
400 free - Carry, Renwick
100 Back - Tait
200 Back - Tait
200 Breast - Gilchrist
100 Fly - Cooper
200 Fly - Cooper
200 IM - Tait, Carry, Dale
400 IM - Carry, Dale
4 x 200 Relay
Women
200 free - McClatchey
400 free - McClatchey
800 free - McClatchey
200 Breast - Balfour
400 IM - Miley
The lack of English, Canadian and Australian entries in many events has given Scotland a great chance to shine even more so than it would have done anyway. I'm sure the big three are going to regret what they have done!
It would be great to see Scotland put on a strong performance at these games. Good to see some quality swimmers being produced and a couple of youngsters in that list.
ringer
15-02-2006, 04:23 PM
End of discussion? Perhaps not....
Swimnews report today
"Thorpe Sticks To His Guns
15-Feb-2006 Craig Lord
The door is closed: Australia met the deadline for finalising entries to the Commonwealth Games yesterday and the name Ian Thorpe is absent from the 400m freestyle list.
Alan Thompson, head coach to the Dolphins, had tried to persuade the Olympic champion and world record holder to enter his signature event but Thorpe is fixed for the moment on 100 and 200m freestyle and is not yet ready to return to the 400 metres in racing.
In an interview in January, Thorpe said that he believed that he could get back to his world record times over 200 and 400 metres."
Maybe the argument will rage after the 400 at Melbourne as to whether he would or would not have won if only.....
Linny
20-02-2006, 04:23 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/thorpes-games-chances-sinking-with-virus-scare/2006/02/20/1140284004550.html
I hope they've sold all the tickets + let's hope he recovers quick. Women, even world record breakers, just don't seem to have the same draw as the big guys or is that just me?
ruthcp
20-02-2006, 04:41 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/thorpes-games-chances-sinking-with-virus-scare/2006/02/20/1140284004550.html
I hope they've sold all the tickets + let's hope he recovers quick. Women, even world record breakers, just don't seem to have the same draw as the big guys or is that just me?
No, not just you......:flash:
I wonder how long it will take before people start saying he's just scared of not doing well, hence this press release........:rolleyes:
I hope he recovers quickle too, and swims his socks off!! :fingers:
ringer
20-02-2006, 05:06 PM
Is it being mischievous to ponder whether the complaint really is viral bronchitis? Of course it is ..but here goes...
GPs over here are extremely reluctant to prescribe antibiotics for anything but those nasty bacterial infections.:confused:
Still, the article says "he has a good doctor"; so who am I to doubt??????
.
lane4
20-02-2006, 10:16 PM
How much more evidence will be needed before everyone realises that Thorpe has gone soft, is not putting in the right amount of work in training, and is forever making excuses. He is so damn talented though, he can get away with it and still win at major meets.
stinger
20-02-2006, 10:30 PM
How much more evidence will be needed before everyone realises that Thorpe has gone soft, is not putting in the right amount of work in training, and is forever making excuses.
I presume questions will be asked when (OK if!) a British swimmer - Simon Burnett beats him in the Commonwealths.:fingers:
Phil Tanner
21-02-2006, 07:54 AM
Australian radio says this morning Thorpe has missed some training with bronchitis and will be struggling for peak fitness...
Slowcoach
23-02-2006, 12:26 PM
Australian radio says this morning Thorpe has missed some training with bronchitis and will be struggling for peak fitness...
If only....
Katie
23-02-2006, 07:51 PM
If only....
I'm sure if anyone was to beat Thorpe, they'd like to do it without the excuse that he's been ill, and beat him fair and square! :)
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