Laure Manadou and Grant Hackett

[Roderick]

Hi everyone,

My first post on this forum. Favourites are Grant Hackett - simply awesome distance swimmer and Laure Manadou - A clean sweep Euro, Olympic and World titles all with a two stroke kick.

[Linny]

Welcome :)
Are you a distance freestyle swimmer Roderick? Tell us a bit about yourself!

[Roderick]

Allow me to copy/paste (it's a long story)

My story:- It is very hard to say when it all started.I didnt particularly enjoy swimming as I was always forced to do it. At the age of 3 or so I learnt the hard way, I was thrown in the pool by a private instructor and he held a pole out too far in front to ever reach it. At the age of 6 I was swimming back and forth but never followed it up. I remember at the age of 10 getting a few compliments about some natural style I had. Then I got fat living in America and with my father a long time. I never managed to shake the weight and it kept on coming. Eating was the only consolation in my life, a very disfunctional and split family only getting together around the table to gorge, it seemed to a child that that was the thing to do.

My father ate himself into a wheelchair and I was heading that way with BP high enough to kill an elephant, cholestorol could have greased Belgiums Christmas dinner and my weight was a staggering 127 kg. It was time to do something about it.

For some reason I was drawn to the pool, although I hated everything around it, the suits that made me look even fatter, the showers, the stares, all of it I hated. Yet when I was in the water there was a complete harmony about it. The few times I did sports I always enjoyed the endurance events. So I started swimming 1 kilometer. It took me 50 minutes and I needed to rest every 2 lengths.

I never learnt to swim properly, I always had this natural thing this guy was speaking about when I was 10. Carl was his name. Well I progressed enough so that it was 30 minutes, and I went on line to see what the pros were swimming. I noticed they only swam 1500 as I checked the results of Sydney 2000. Some Aussie by the name of Grant Hackett won in under 15 minutes. So in I hopped and started swimming 1500 in 52 minutes. The challenge never left my belly and the fire doesn't stop burning. The dream was a distant fantasy for a few years, but Athens woke me up. It was now or never. I thought about it for a while, and tried to reason it out. I decided it was not impossible and therefore to give it all. The start was slow, there were a lot of changes in my training and exercise routines, morning, evenings, back to mornings etc. I needed a lot of research to do it right as well. I joined a club as well and swam the first race of my life. 100M free SC in 1:54:03. (I expect most people to stop reading now)

I joined an athletic forum but found that it was really geared around running. I finally found webswim and George Park. I sent a mail to George which he probably gets 20 or so a day of, and I promised not to write again, but would appreciate an answer if he could train and coach me online. I lied, I did write a second time and George was on the other end of the wire as if we had been training for years together. I sent videos of what I thought was a great natural style. George corrected a lot of things and of course we are still constantly improving my stroke. I was swimming a windmill style without streamlining, basically all was wrong except the stubborn will to attempt the nearly impossible.

George has been great, not only in improving my swimming but also mentally encouraging. He breaks the mammoth task of devouring an elephant, or Hackett, and turns it into bite-size delicacies, leaving you hungry for more. George and I communicate electronically, per email and MSN. What is very important in our relationship is all the things we talk about outside of swimming. I find it very important that George knows what me mad or makes me happy, how I receive challenges etc. I am sure as we get closer to judgement day George will be pushing buttons and turning dials and it will be important that we are one, in mind, body and soul.

I swam a 4k open water race last year just as I was getting together with George. I swam it in 1:34:00. This year we will be swimming the Belgian Open Water championships and are going to finish top 5, with at least one victory. The races are all 5k and swam in canals with only one swam in the North Sea.

Some of my successes this year include 20Kg (44 pounds) weight loss and a 100m time down to what we think is about 1:20. I have been selected, in fact qualified, for the regional championships interclub in West Flanders, and will ultimately see how much improvement there is from my first 100 at 1:54. Finishing a 4k race was an achievement as well, there were some people that had to get pulled out of the water.

After some three months with George I feel I am understanding the technique of swimming, I get a feel for the water and I am moving through the water in a smooth efficient stroke. I can actually feel myself gliding through the water rather than fighting my way through it.

After Beijing I will have a long discussion with George as to why we got on from the first instance and why it was he believed in me. I can assure you most people don't, they mostly laugh at my plans, even if all I say is that I am training for the nationals in 2008. Yet George believed it was possible, and he has been where I want to go.

We will see you in Beijing in August 2008.

Roderick

[ringer]

The contrast in kicking style between these two brilliant exponents of long distance pool swim is striking. Hackett (like David Davies) seems to kick 6 beat for the whole 1500 wheras Manaudou maintains her 2 beat kick over her distance swims (even at 400).
Does the success of these poles apart styles create doubt in the minds of coaches when determining which is best?
Does it take more effort, and hence exertion of more energy, to maintain 6 beat kick over the longer distance or to rely more on pure stroke power?

[Roderick]

Apparently your kick doesn't do much at distance swimming except maintain balance and some propulsion when in 'idle or glide' phase. None of these swimmers are kicking to win as such. I think they all do what they are most comfortable with. Mine is a six beat kick, anything else I find too slow.

If you watch Hackett's kick it has a natural stop in it just as he's breathing. Therefore I think it's mainly for body balance on the distance swims.

More interesting is the contrast between Hackett and Thorpe's kick. Hackett's are small kicks whereas Thorpedo seems to whallop the water with his legs. Mind you with feet th esize of fins I would probably do the same. (I am talking of the 400m distance kick).

r/R

[selkie]

There is no one absolute best way of swimming freestyle. There are about a dozen different ways of correctly swimming the stroke, and it's a matter of figuring out which one works best for you.

[NotVeryFast]

In "Swimming Fastest", Maglischo covers the subject quite well in terms of analysing why different swimmers would want to choose one of the types of kick. Personally I do a six beat kick throughout a 1500m swim, though not with maximum vigour all the time. Some reasons Maglischo suggests if I recall correctly:
- length of legs - people with longer legs may prefer a slower kick because they struggle to kick their legs faster
- buoyancy of legs - people with legs that are less buoyant and sink more may prefer a six beat kick to help keep the legs higher in the water
- vital capacity (VO2max) - people with a greater vital capacity can sustain a more vigorous kick

I think he also suggests that some people who end up using a two beat kick for the last reason might be better off using a more subdued six beat kick instead. The six beat kick is arguably the most natural type of kick.

[geochuck]

Roderick thanks for the good words. There are are couple or more critics on this forum who think I am an old F--t (I probably am) but as you know we have made great progress in this short period. I have been laid up and find it hard to be at the computer. The new knee op was pretty good but the therapist messed up my recovery a little the very first day. She knocked out the drainage tube from my knee and it swelled up like a balloon. it has been 6days now since the op and I finally am over the pain and the swelling has gone down.

Leg position can be controlled very easily by front loading and I love to see the 2 beat kickers but for me the six beat is better. It is evelution there have been very good 2 beaters around for a very long time and Manaudou is great.

Best of luck Roderick keep knocking the time off a second at a time

[dave1986l]

All i want to say is
in the WOMENS races - YES, 2 beat kick works

BUT look overall -- who has THE FASTEST times in the world - yes, the men

And look at all the world records - and what style of kick they use

400m - ian thorpe - 6 beat
200m - ian thorpe - 6beat

at the 400m in athens - 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place all had a 6 beat kick
1500m - grant hackett - 6beat 2nd place, larsen jensen 6 beat

imo you cant deny 6 beat is the best!

Altho it frustrates me as i dont know what style i am yet and i wana start swimming!