View Full Version : Is a www.SwimClub.co.uk photo gallery a good idea?
Chris
17-02-2006, 04:05 PM
Currently mulling a few site expansion options, and one of these is to include a photo gallery for you to upload swimming-related photos, and any others you might fancy (but probably mostly swimming photos!)
a) Good idea?
b) Concerns? (Dangerous territory with regards to child protection policy etc.)
c) Any other thoughts?
Chris
Chris
If we maybe stick to photos of those 18+ might avoid contenteous issues. Will the quality be better than images attached within threads as many are rather fuzzy?
Chris
17-02-2006, 04:36 PM
Chris
If we maybe stick to photos of those 18+ might avoid contenteous issues. Will the quality be better than images attached within threads as many are rather fuzzy?
Noted on the 18+ suggestion.
Re. quality - I envisage the gallery as having the ability to store thumbnails of images, as well as the original full size versions.
Chris
Wildswimmer
17-02-2006, 05:13 PM
As far as open-water swimming is concerned, these could be of locations.
Wildswimmer Pete
chlorine_babe
17-02-2006, 05:34 PM
Only have the photo gallery available to members. I know that doesn't stop anyone who really wants to see the photo's but it's another obstacle.
Only have the photo gallery available to members. I know that doesn't stop anyone who really wants to see the photo's but it's another obstacle.
Effort signing up.
Going on the 18+ theme. Maybe you could get them to send them to you and then you check them over incase you don't think they are suitable for this site. Covering your back, catch my drift?
happySwimmer
17-02-2006, 06:26 PM
I think it is a great idea. I can see the sense of the 18+ suggestion, but not sure how one would monitor this. I think having photo's vetted before they are posted is a good idea and no doubt if anyone objects to a photo being displayed it could be removed.
Are there any legal implications to consider?
icelolly
17-02-2006, 07:26 PM
some rules about dress in photos ie no posing in swimsuits would help we insist that our swimmers must wear a long t shirt (ie long enough to cover bum) to have their photo taken.
ice
Linny
17-02-2006, 07:28 PM
some rules about dress in photos ie no posing in swimsuits would help we insist that our swimmers must wear a long t shirt (ie long enough to cover bum) to have their photo taken.
iceNO! Only relevant for children.
I think it is a great idea Chris but why do you want more work? Don't you have enough to do? I have a car needs washing and some socks that need pairing. ;)
Chris
17-02-2006, 08:19 PM
NO! Only relevant for children.
Agreed. Surely you all want to see me in lycra??
I think it is a great idea Chris but why do you want more work? Don't you have enough to do? I have a car needs washing and some socks that need pairing. ;)
My car's pretty dirty as well Linny. I'll come and wash yours if you come here and wash mine!!
ruthcp
17-02-2006, 08:31 PM
Perhaps action photos of under 18s are ok, if they are in the water? Most close ups don't show anything that could be deemed offensive.
Good idea, more work for you though, especially if you have to vet each photo!!
I have many photos, it being a bit of a hobby of mine. :)
(Infact, I will be getting a website for them soon I hope!)
Many of them on our own website (www.guildfordcitysc.com) - sorry about the shameless plug! :eek:
ruthcp
17-02-2006, 08:32 PM
And my car could do with a wash as well, if you're that way inclined....!!!!! :king:
ruthcp
17-02-2006, 08:41 PM
I'm sure we would all love to see you in Lycra (at least most of us 'girlies', eh GF), but.......won't Kaci mind, or is she bighearted enough to share?!! :)
Linny
17-02-2006, 08:52 PM
I'll come and wash yours if you come here and wash mine!!Can't we meet halfway? :p :D
Chris
17-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Perhaps action photos of under 18s are ok, if they are in the water? Most close ups don't show anything that could be deemed offensive.
Good idea, more work for you though, especially if you have to vet each photo!!
I have many photos, it being a bit of a hobby of mine. :)
(Infact, I will be getting a website for them soon I hope!)
Many of them on our own website (www.guildfordcitysc.com (http://www.guildfordcitysc.com)) - sorry about the shameless plug! :eek:
And my car could do with a wash as well, if you're that way inclined....!!!!! :king:
I'm sure we would all love to see you in Lycra (at least most of us 'girlies', eh GF), but.......won't Kaci mind, or is she bighearted enough to share?!! :)
Oiiiiii .... I've noticed you're becoming a post hog!! Have you not found the edit button!!!
;)
ruthcp
17-02-2006, 08:57 PM
Can't we meet halfway? :p :D
What with the lycra or the car wash!!!?:devil:
ruthcp
17-02-2006, 08:58 PM
Oiiiiii .... I've noticed you're becoming a post hog!! Have you not found the edit button!!!
;)
Oh is that what it's for.....! :king:
Editing as we speak, Boss please note!!!!
Sorry, just feeling extra chatty this evening!!!
Wildswimmer
17-02-2006, 10:00 PM
some rules about dress in photos ie no posing in swimsuits would help we insist that our swimmers must wear a long t shirt (ie long enough to cover bum) to have their photo taken.
ice
No way for me. I'm topless all summer, whether or not around water, no way would I wear a t-shirt for photos. We are swimmers and shouldn't be ashamed of our bodies. Other sportsmen are pictured in their kit, so why not us?
Unfortunately because of our sex-obsessed, politically-correct, social-worker culture we need to be careful when dealing with children. According to an ex-CID friend, there is in fact no more kiddy-diddling now than there was 50 years ago when I was a little kid. And most of that which does occur is in the family and takes place at home, not at the local pool/beach. But what the hell, since when do the facts get in the way of a good story for the tabloid toilet papers?
Blimey, I am wearing out my soapbox tonight!
Wildswimmer Pete
lane4
17-02-2006, 11:01 PM
I would like to see a photo gallery but I think it should be limited to swimming related photos only. No off topic photos and no people uploading all their holiday snaps of the sea and the pool at the hotel where they stayed and claiming them to be swimming related. Vetting would be good (moderators allowed access to ensure you don't have to do all the work Chris?) to keep the idiots at bay. 18+ is probably the safest move but there are plenty action shots from Nationals on the web of kids well under 18 so it's not necessarily a problem.
Another question for you...Were you thinking of having it placed on a completely different page to everything else or maybe placing a small thing as another "module" within the forums? Sorry if I've picked the wrong vocab. there.
NotVeryFast
17-02-2006, 11:27 PM
I think the experience of how things progressed over time on the dpreview forums is relevant here. Some time ago, there were quite a lot of "candid" photographs posted on the dpreview forums. To many photographers, the ability to capture a good candid photo is seen as a skill to be proud of, and many photographers take excellent photos of this nature that can be seen as works of art. However it degenerated into what was basically voyeurism, with people taking pictures in public places of people they found attractive and posting them with comments, like "phwoar, look at that!". Obviously, whilst legally permissible as the people were in public places, many people found such behaviour highly distasteful, and candid photographs are now banned on the dpreview forums.
So, if the plan is for people to post pictures from meets, say, even if the subjects are over 18, I think it would be wise to lay down some rules as to what is and isn't acceptable, e.g. how acceptable are the following:
- a picture of all the swimmers in a race as they stand on the blocks
- a close up of an individual swimmer stood on the blocks
- a close up of an individual swimmer's face
- a close up of a part of an individual swimmer's body, I'll leave the rest to your imagination
- a picture of a person that the subject would not want to be posted for whatever reason
- a picture of a person that seems designed to humiliate or ridicule the subject
It would be nice to think that only responsible people would post photos and no such problems would arise, but it's best to anticipate such problems rather than be surprised when they happen. Vetting seems like a good idea, but the vetters need to agree in advance on the answers to questions like the above.
Ruth
I know how passionate you are about photography but please be very careful if you are planning a website. Make sure every individual you intend publishing on your site has signed a "Model Release". This is signed by the individual or their parent/guardian giving you permission to publish. It is sad I know but there is so much we need to cover ourselves for these days.
GettingFaster
18-02-2006, 09:48 AM
I'm sure we would all love to see you in Lycra (at least most of us 'girlies', eh GF), but.......won't Kaci mind, or is she bighearted enough to share?!! :)
I have seen Chris in lycra in real life, so a mere photo won't be a patch on the real thing. (I know RCP will be dead jealous of that!)
And Kaci didn't seem to object, as everyone else at the pool saw the boss in lycra as well.
Answering a few other points from the thread:
Swimming-related photos only, though could include a single non-swimming pic of individual members.
Moderators to share the burden of vetting pics.
An agreed set of standard rules for moderators to follow when vetting, good idea, NVF.
And a suggestion or two:
Sub-divide the photo gallery into things like; pics of famous swimmers (we've had some requests for that kind of thing so could be useful), members' pics, good pools, particular competitions, I'm sure others will come up with sensible suggestions to avoid just having a data silo of pics in no particular order.
Oh, and can you wash MY car too, while you're at it, Linny? And if you have any spare pairs of socks I'd be very grateful for some.
Wildswimmer
18-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Ruth
I know how passionate you are about photography but please be very careful if you are planning a website. Make sure every individual you intend publishing on your site has signed a "Model Release". This is signed by the individual or their parent/guardian giving you permission to publish. It is sad I know but there is so much we need to cover ourselves for these days.
As far as I know, under English law a model release is only necessary where the subject is a professional model.
No permission whatsoever is required to photograph anyone in a public place (including aforementioned professional models) - in other words no-one can stop you taking pictures on a beach, but permission will almost always be needed at a swimming pool.
Of course, regardless of the above, I would always ask permission of the intended subject beforehand. Saying that, I very rarely take pics of individuals:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/wildswimmer007/stockham_lodge.htm
although shortly I hope to be adding pics of the aqua-aerobics class.
It would be easy to moderate pics of children: simply insist they are taken, and uploaded by, parent or guardian only.
That's the beauty of wild swimming. You can take pics of rivers, lakes and the sea in fantastic surroundings, then say "I was in that!"
Finally, whatever the circumstances, the copyright in all pictures rests with the photographer, even if said pics have been commissioned and paid for. I write magazine articles and retain copyright on everything (pics included), although it would be seriously unethical to offer the same piece to another customer. Anyone who did so would soon end up out of work.
Wildswimmer Pete
NotVeryFast
18-02-2006, 04:07 PM
As far as I know, under English law a model release is only necessary where the subject is a professional model.
No permission whatsoever is required to photograph anyone in a public place (including aforementioned professional models) - in other words no-one can stop you taking pictures on a beach, but permission will almost always be needed at a swimming pool.
The need for a model release is a function of the usage to which the image is put rather than whether the subject is a professional model. It's when an image is used for "commercial purposes" that a release becomes necessary.
So, you can take a photo of anyone you want from a public place, but you can't then slap that photo onto a billboard and use it to advertise coca cola because you aren't allowed to associate that person with a commercial product without their permission. You can, however, use it for "editorial purposes" which is why newspapers can function without needing gazillions of model releases. Posting pictures on this site would almost certainly be classed as editorial use and wouldn't require model releases.
Note that I said "from" a public place, not "in" a public place. It's where you're standing when you take the photo that matters, not what the camera is pointing at. Also, the freedom to take photos from public places doesn't bestow the right to harrass people. If a person feels harrassed by someone pointing a camera at them, then there would be a case for a public order offence having been committed. Also, you aren't allowed to record what can't be seen with the naked eye, so using a huge telephoto lens to look into someone's house from a public place isn't permitted.
When it comes to non-public places, you can still take photos if you haven't been asked not to, but must stop immediately if the owner or their representative tells you to. This would be the case at most meets, where conditions relating to photography are published / announced.
Incidentally, releases are also required for property in many cases, two well known examples are the London Eye, and the Gherkin building in London. Even though you can photograph these from a public place, you are not permitted to make commercial use of the resulting photographs without a release from the owning company, again because you would otherwise be implicitly associating the owner of that building with a commercial product.
What wildswimmer said about copyright is correct - the copyright is always owned by the photographer, so you can't just take photos of famous swimmers from other web sites and stick them on this web site unless you have the permission of the photographer.
Caveat : I'm not a legal professional, but I've sold photographs for commercial use, and the above is my understanding of the law in the UK. Other countries can have drastically different laws relating to this sort of thing.
Wildswimmer
18-02-2006, 05:10 PM
When it comes to non-public places, you can still take photos if you haven't been asked not to, but must stop immediately if the owner or their representative tells you to. This would be the case at most meets, where conditions relating to photography are published / announced.
I sought prior permission for the Stockham Lodge pics, both from the management and the intended victims.
Ironically, after seeking and being granted permission, I took several shots of the Nantwich Brine Pool for web use, whereupon two women swimming in the pool complained. It obviously failed to cross their minds that I was far too far away to resolve their faces (and to be brutally honest, wouldn't have wanted to). Some people! If I didn't want to be photographed whilst swimming I'd just pull down my mirror-lensed mask and snarl at the camera. Probably get sued then for cracking an expensive lens!!
I'm sticking to landscapes, although in Corporate Britain plc there are without doubt little grey suits trying to find a way to gain copyright over our hills, dales and coasts. If they can do it with human genes, nothing's sacred.
Wildswimmer Pete
NB If the photo gallery becomes a reality I'll post the Nantwich pics.
chris_lamb
20-02-2006, 09:28 AM
It could be a good idea - but I'm not sure it is worth the effort.
Any photos would have to conform with ASA guidelines for publishing photos. Will you have enough time to enforce this? It won't be practical to check that the photographer has permission to post the photo ([1]) so it would be down to trusting the posters. And then there are the almost inevitable copyright issues when someone posts a photo they don't own.
There is no shortage of sites where people can post photos and put links in the forum. Is it really worth the hassle?
[1] Permission is not legally required but is recommended by the ASA.
Chris
20-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Any photos would have to conform with ASA guidelines for publishing photos.
Why?
I don't carry any affiliation to the ASA ...... (not being argumentative but want to know if I'm missing something?)
Chris
chris_lamb
20-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Why?
'cos if they don't you haven't got a leg to stand on if anyone objects to a photo. If you following the advice of the governing body of the sport then you can be seen to be making reasonable efforts to do things properly. If you choose to ignore the advice then you could well find yourself having to justify why.
Oh, and because in this case it is actually pretty good advice!
Chris
20-02-2006, 10:51 AM
'cos if they don't you haven't got a leg to stand on if anyone objects to a photo. If you following the advice of the governing body of the sport then you can be seen to be making reasonable efforts to do things properly. If you choose to ignore the advice then you could well find yourself having to justify why.
Oh, and because in this case it is actually pretty good advice!
Fair enough, but if we were to take the stance that photos of children under 18 weren't to be published, then it's not really an issue, right?
blueshots
20-02-2006, 11:22 AM
Would putting pictures on slow the site down? I really like the simpleness of the whole site and the ease in which I can navigate around it. Chris I have put a link to this site on my club web site is that ok? www.bromsgroveswimming.org
Chris
20-02-2006, 11:30 AM
Would putting pictures on slow the site down? I really like the simpleness of the whole site and the ease in which I can navigate around it. Chris I have put a link to this site on my club web site is that ok? www.bromsgroveswimming.org
Hi Matt.
Nope. Wouldn't slow it down at all.
Thank you for putting a link to www.SwimClub.co.uk (http://www.SwimClub.co.uk) on your site .... much appreciated.
Chris
GettingFaster
20-02-2006, 02:43 PM
Fair enough, but if we were to take the stance that photos of children under 18 weren't to be published, then it's not really an issue, right?
I'm assuming that that's with the exception of pics of under 18's posted by the people themselves and vetted by the webmaster/moderators before posting?
While wanting to remain sensitive to child protection, copyright and privacy issues I would hope there could be enough common sense around to prevent the site being completely hog-tied by the PC Gestapo. :fingers:
KatieBun
20-02-2006, 04:09 PM
Oh is that what it's for.....! :king:
Editing as we speak, Boss please note!!!!
Sorry, just feeling extra chatty this evening!!!
Ruth, if you've got all this chat time, maybe you should be washing all the cars...or maybe you should have been on the Isle of Wight, swimming!:)
KatieBun
20-02-2006, 04:20 PM
Chris, why don't you trial it and then take another vote? Providing it's well moderated with a clear set of rules and the necessary permissions it should be safe. This is all sound advice from people who have had experience and nobody who's offered advice has actually said not to do it.
What about the extra work involved for you? (Should we hire a car valeting agency to solve the other problem?)
Linny
20-02-2006, 04:42 PM
Oh KatieBun, is this what happens when you reach E, suddenly you become sensible and well reasoned? I wonder how long it lasts before senility hits.....
Is that at F?:devil:
Wildswimmer
20-02-2006, 06:05 PM
Oh KatieBun, is this what happens when you reach E, suddenly you become sensible and well reasoned? I wonder how long it lasts before senility hits.....
Dunno what "E" means, but I've passed the senility stage and have definitely reached my "scrap by" date.:aarrgghh: That must be why I'm such a moaning old fart.
Wildswimmer Pete
Top10ranking
20-02-2006, 06:18 PM
im not sure if this has been mentioned before, probably has. i think that it is a good idea as i remember once being quite shocked when Katie came and spoke to me i was rather confused. however at 17 this wont have much effect for me will it?
Katie
20-02-2006, 08:04 PM
I have spoken to you?? I do get a bit confused with who everybody is...
Top10ranking
20-02-2006, 08:12 PM
i believe you did along with your mum at hazlemere last year
KatieBun
20-02-2006, 11:53 PM
Oh KatieBun, is this what happens when you reach E, suddenly you become sensible and well reasoned? I wonder how long it lasts before senility hits.....
Is that at F?:devil:
No, senility hit on Saturday evening, I think. I don't really remember when.:confused:
KatieBun
20-02-2006, 11:55 PM
Dunno what "E" means, but I've passed the senility stage and have definitely reached my "scrap by" date.:aarrgghh: That must be why I'm such a moaning old fart.
Wildswimmer Pete
Pete, you're a "G" in Masters age bands. They start at 25-29, group A and go up in 5 year bands. Seniors are 19 - 24.
So, how does it feel to be a G-man?:)
Beanie
06-03-2006, 01:46 PM
Oh KatieBun, is this what happens when you reach E, suddenly you become sensible and well reasoned? I wonder how long it lasts before senility hits.....
Is that at F?:devil:
If you had seen KB at the Isle of Wight you Should know that she is far from sensible and well reasoned
Photos would be cool (just to keep vaguely on topic) but I'm not fussed either way
ps my car is also v dirty and needs a wash
KatieBun
06-03-2006, 03:14 PM
If you had seen KB at the Isle of Wight you Should know that she is far from sensible and well reasoned
That's enough of that....:eek:
I know you won't tell, Beanie. You're such a good mate!:fingers:
(Only added this bit so I could put this great smiley in!)
Spidey
12-03-2006, 07:45 PM
I have seen things ... no no no, that's Bladerunner.
I have seen photos on the site already. What would be different to what you are asking. Am I thinking Mug Shots?
biggav90
14-05-2006, 06:17 PM
I reckon that you only have a gallery open for members to view. Then divide them into sections eg. World, European, International swimmers, National championships, then down to local areas (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, California etc). People could then send in their own pictures which you could put into the designated area. It would be cool seeing pictures from galas a few years ago.
buflobill
17-06-2006, 07:12 PM
I don't think anybody other than our club members would be interested of photos of our club swimmers in action, we've all seen people and children swimming so what would be the interest? If the photo gallery was of funny shots or odd/strange shots well ok , I've protected all the photos on our club site from download and even if anybody got past this protection the quality is quite reduced. It is a lot more work so it would really be down to how much your prepared to put in.
chris_lamb
17-06-2006, 10:32 PM
I've protected all the photos on our club site from download
No you haven't. You've restricted the ability to use the context (right-click) menu to save a copy but the fact that anyone can see them means they have downloaded them.
Chris
18-06-2006, 10:29 PM
No you haven't. You've restricted the ability to use the context (right-click) menu to save a copy but the fact that anyone can see them means they have downloaded them.
I have to agree ... I can get any of your photos with very little effort in the size and quality you've uploaded them in.
To be honest, as they wouldn't necessarily be my photos I could care if someone took them ... that would be made clear to any contributors. If you aren't happy for someone else to claim credit for your photos, then they would be advised to add some sort of signature to the photos.
Anything that appears on the internet nowadays is pretty much fair game for anyone! Such is life ....
Chris
No you haven't. You've restricted the ability to use the context (right-click) menu to save a copy but the fact that anyone can see them means they have downloaded them.
I agree too. Anyone who knows how website works could find half a dozen ways of getting to those photos.
Sorry.
Steve
19-06-2006, 12:16 PM
I agree too. Anyone who knows how website works could find half a dozen ways of getting to those photos.
Sorry.
I have to say I was more worried by the fact that IE kept telling me that the page was trying to paste something from my clipboard causing me to have to kill it with task manager. Mind you it stopped me from getting at the photos as well, for about 5 minutes anwyay. :)
I think if the main person or persons are happy to have their photographs displayed then members should post. If they are uploaded perhaps they should be approved first, as on other sites, before being published.
I have enjoyed this chain of conversation. I never thought of many of these issues before I started my photo site for swim pictures. I have always been careful to crop photos so that the subject won't be mortified by, say, the transparency of the DIANA suits in the California sun. :aarrgghh: I have not taken to watermarking or tattooing my photos as I feel it gets in the way of the subject sometimes. I love to look at swimming photos and look forward to seeing other people's pics too.
yowasuphomeboy
05-07-2006, 06:33 PM
I Voted YES and happy to see a whopping 81.33%
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I say yes, as it might help those that write Swimming Times articles etc to get a wider range of pictures.
Another thing you might want to consider is offering members a Weblog (blog) so those that post 100's of times a day have their own little area to rant in!!!
But seriously - it might be interesting for some of our swimmer who are at the world championships (for example) to keep a daily blog so those that are still undecided about doing such events can get an impression of what its like.
Another idea - why not offer a facility to store your training diary, you could even develop analysis tools.
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