Distance events. 2 swimmers 1 lane.

[ringer]

The Lancashire County Age Group and Championships starting this weekend have apparently been inundated with entries in the mixed 800 and 1500 events. The event conditions seemingly do not enable rejections if the qualifying time has been achieved. The method devised to allow all qualifiers to swim and all events to be completed within the permitted time in the day, 7.5 hours, is to require all heats in those 800 and 1500 events to be swum with two swimmers in each lane.
The venue is Manchester 50m pool.
There will undoubtedly be logistical problems for the organisers, timekeepers with lap counter boards, and the electronic timekeeping system but no doubt there are plans to cope from the operational point of view....
....but what advice can members give to the swimmers from the practical point of view, please?. I understand 2 swimmers to a lane is not an unusual occurence but not for this type of event (age groupers, youths and open) in this part of the world. The prospect of crashes and arm entanglement is a concern to many an inexperienced parent and swimmer. So how is this commonly undertaken? I envisage swimmers will be told to swim close to lane ropes in a fixed direction, clockwise or anticlockwise, but is there for example any official (or unofficial, commonsense) guidance about direction flow, lane position and in particular (potential simultaneous) tumble turning?

[Odie]

I swam a 400m Free with two swimmers per lane last year and was terrified of the prospect as I frequently clash with people during training. It actually went well though. One swimmer per lane was given a hat coloured hat to wear to distinguish the two and told which side of the lane to swim. The left side were started first with the right side following after 30 seconds, so there was no simultaneous tumbling to worry about.

I have to say that once in the water, I was clearly focusing on my swim and didn't really notice the other swimmer at all.

[ringer]

I have to say that once in the water, I was clearly focussing on my swim and didn't really notice the other swimmer at all.

It is to be hoped that the swimmers will be as inconvenienced by this novelty as you were Odie but the concern is that there are relatively inexperienced youngsters here who, granted will have done the distance at least once before to get the County qualifying mark, might not be entirely trusted to follow the directive to keep to the side all the time.

I don't believe that the younger swimmers will be at ease and will struggle to be able to concentrate entirely so as to swim their own race and so are unlikely to perform to their max.

If the field is to be split so that there are simultaneous starts at each end of the pool (as I understand the heats will be arranged) I fear that the leading swimmers will not have the racing advantage of the challenge of their nearest rivals side by side to spur them and each other on to the fastest times possible.

I hope I'm wrong but the concern is that race/time performance in these distance races will be compromised.

The County organisation is responsible and will have H & S at the forefront of mind. It is going to be interesting....will report further....

[Odie]

If the field is to be split so that there are simultaneous starts at each end of the pool (as I understand the heats will be arranged) I fear that the leading swimmers will not have the racing advantage of the challenge of their nearest rivals side by side to spur them and each other on to the fastest times possible.

I appreciate they will not have a great deal of racing experience and will find it daunting - as I did. They will still have the rest of the field starting with them though to encourage their performance, provided their entry times are a true reflection of what they can acheive they will be seeded alongside those of similar abilities.

I hope I'm wrong but the concern is that race/time performance in these distance races will be compromised.

The County organisation is responsible and will have H & S at the forefront of mind. It is going to be interesting....will report further....

It will be interesting to hear how it all goes, do report back.

[GettingFaster]

This has happened a good few times in Masters meets, where ability is in many instances much lower than the abilities of agegroup and youth swimmers, certainly in the early heats at least. Once you get used to the notion that there's someone else in the lane and you have to keep to one side it's no worse - in fact it's much better - than regular training sessions, during which I don't think I have ever seen a collision or arm clash on freestyle. (Though I suppose if someone decides to swim the race on fly then there might be a possibility...)

Seriously, there's nothing to worry about. If there was anything to worry about then H&S wouldn't allow more than one swimmer per lane in training or public sessions. And you do forget there's another person in the lane so there's not a problem about concentration. The only people it's tricky for is the lap counter people who have to make sure they show the numbers to 'their' swimmer.

[ringer]

The only people it's tricky for is the lap counter people who have to make sure they show the numbers to 'their' swimmer.

The reassuring comments founded upon experience will settle a few minds; thankyou.

With regard to GF's quote above there is however potential for comedy/tragedy so I guess the video cameras will be at the ready tomorrow to capture the moment/s.

[ringer]

Originally Posted by ringer
"I hope I'm wrong but the concern is that race/time performance in these distance races will be compromised."

"It was chaos and a shambles and must not be repeated." That is the consensus of wisdom from swimmers and parents.
Although I haven't seen the overall results yet, the swimmers with whom I have connections (bar one) subtantially underperformed in the mixed 1500 and mixed 800 races at Manchester today.
There were no obvious crashes but there were some very near misses and I heard of one arm entanglement.
The officials were heroic and mostly got it right but didn't always e.g. in the first heat the warning bells were rung too soon with 200m still to swim, so swimmers stopped at 1400 only to be told to carry on, and one lad was made to do 1600 in another heat.
But the cost was that race/time performance was compromised though it was the same for everyone and the winners on the day were the ones who coped best with the unusual race conditions and have to be congratulated.
In general swimmers' minds were not totally focussed on their own lane/race /performance and concentration and performance was impaired.
All swimmers, irrespective of whether they normally raced in caps or not, were made to wear reportedly tight fitting uncomfortable latex swim caps, yellow or red, to distinguish the starters from each end of the pool. Swimmers were required to stay close to the lane ropes so as to swim in straight lines: there was no circular swimming.
I only hope that the County "money men" don't point to the only positive aspect and be content at the revenue benefit...more swimmers ... more money. This was a one-off caused by force of circumstance and must not be repeated for the sake of swim performance.

[marrinermum]

my swimmer would have had a head on collision with the other swimmer in his lane, cos he was concentrating on the race. if it were'nt for the other lad getting out of his way it would have been a nasty clash - so performance was def compromised in that lane, for the other lad at least.

the sad thing was that mine blamed himself which is fair to a point but should'nt the organisers take some of the blame?

must add too,that mine broke his wrist last summer after a clash of arms in training so you would have thought he'd have learnt:rolleyes:

[Chris]

I wouldn't swim an event I had to share a lane with a swimmer for.

I know it's a huge time saver, but it's not (in my eyes) a satisfactory way to run a race.

Chris

[NotVeryFast]

Is it even within FINA rules to have more than one swimmer per lane? There is an explicit rule to permit it for Masters events:
"MSW 3.8 The Organising Committee may arrange 400 metre, 800 metre and 1500 metre Freestyle to be swum two (2) swimmers of the same sex in a lane. Separate timing will be required for each swimmer."

For non-Masters swimming I can't see any rule specifically prohibiting swimming with two swimmers, or indeed more than two swimmers, per lane, but it seems to be assumed throughout the rules there will only be one swimmer per lane, for example:
"SW 2.6.3 In individual events of 800 and 1500 metres, each inspector of turns at the turning end of the pool shall record the number of laps completed by the swimmer in his lane and keep the swimmer informed of the remaining number of laps to be completed by displaying "lap cards". Semi-electronic equipment may be used, including under water display."
The wording of that doesn't allow for the possibility of more than one swimmer being in each lane.

[GettingFaster]

I'm sad to hear that it didn't go well and that I was proved wrong. It's a great shame for all the swimmers in the event. :( It's likely that, because it was 'new', no-one was confident enough in the belief that it'd work. Oh, one small thing, I wouldn't have expected it to involve circular swimming as that would make it more likely for people to catch the other person in their lane and that would definitely compromise the performance of both swimmers.

Sounds like this was a 'one-off', so with the benefit of this experience it won't happen next year.