ASA and Youth Draft Programme2006

[ringer]

http://www.sportcentric.com/vmgmt/vfilemgmt/page/filedownload/1,8202,5026-49221-108716-0-file,00.pdf

[Gina]

There are a lot of foreign swimmers entered this year. Can anyone remember what happens if they make the final. Can they swim it or are there a max amount of foreign swimmers allowed in each final? I have just looked at the ASA website but the conditions have been taken off and I haven't printed them out! Can anyone help???

[Katie]

Without meaning to sound rude, who is Alex Belk? She's REALLY fast and I haven't heard of her before. :)

[Pink Paraffin]

Alex Belk is a boy (and therefore an error) and a max of 2 foreign competitors can go through to finals

[Breaststrokemum]

Confess to being biased, but I am intrigued as usual..............looking at the entrants for BAGCATS, I see once again the disparity in numbers entered for different events. I appreciate that QTs are based on all-time best times etc, but the difference is astounding. Only 61 entrants for 200 breast and 145 for 200 free! and 126 for 200 back! (I do realise that 200 breast is not the most popular event there is!). Daughter not even close this year...........hopeful for next year, but even she feels it seems a little harsh! I remember a similar disparity when elder daughter swam at NAGS a few years ago. Is this discrimination against breaststrokers..........or do I have a complex?!

Breaststrokemum

[sparky]

I an't help but agree with Breaststrokemum, when you break down the bagcats boys 200 Breastroke then only 9 boys make the 14 Yrs time

[Breaststrokemum]

Hallelujah! An ally at last!

Breaststrokemum

[swimbar]

Anybody can go through to the final at both the National Age Groups and Youth. No restriction on foreign swimmers!!

[Taxiandbank]

From recollection of British Swimming (Technical?) Committee minutes, it depends on whether it is a 10 or 8 lane pool. Can't be bothered to troll through to find out.:)

[swimbar]

Nothing to do with British Swimming. This is an English event run by the ASA!!

[Phil Tanner]

Interesting that qualifiers via short-course no longer have a time specified but are just listed in order. This will make it impossible to predict likely finals as some may have made a tactical decision to enter on a SC time if they have a choice and need to maximize rest before a later event. Should keep faster qualifiers on their toes!

Also that there appear to be SC qualifiers in the newly added girls' BAGCATS 1500 (and presumably the boys' 800) when it isn't clear from the qualifying times document that you could qualify SC.

Might this mean some potential entrants didn't enter SC 800/1500 events because they thought they weren't a route to nationals?

This will be my daughter's sixth year at nationals and it's startling how few who there at 11/12 are still there at 16.

The problem with foreign finalists was when selection for national training programmes was based on peformance in national finals, but some places were taken up by ovserseas swimmers. This no longer applies. I can also think of swimmers from overseas who one literally never encountered at domestic meets all season but then turned up at nationals representing a British club.

[swimbar]

The short course qualifiers in the 800 & 1500 all appear to be from the normal sex for these events i.e Girls for 800 and Boys for 1500. The reverse event entrants are all Long Course

[Phil Tanner]

The short course qualifiers in the 800 & 1500 all appear to be from the normal sex for these events i.e Girls for 800 and Boys for 1500. The reverse event entrants are all Long Course

Got it! Thanks, apologies.

[Linny]

Hallelujah! An ally at last!

BreaststrokemumAnd another. One can only hypothesise as to how this has come about and why. I have my own theory. What's yours? :)

[Taxiandbank]

And another. One can only hypothesise as to how this has come about and why. I have my own theory. What's yours? :)
200 breaststroke is boring to watch?:devil: Leaves spoon in pot and retires!

[Breaststrokemum]

And 800 and 1500 freestyle aren't?????????

[Phil Tanner]

Absolutely not! There's so much scope to observe tactics and for races-within-races to develop.

[Breaststrokemum]

I agree Phil! I love watching all events..............I just feel that breaststrokers do suffer some kind of discrimination. Having been a breaststroker myself........many years ago.........and 200 was also my best event...........I felt that the stroke was not considered 'real' swimming, unlike freestyle and fly for example. Despite the fact we have produced some amazing breaststrokers over the years, I think that a lot of males also don't think the stroke is very macho! (Have to be very careful what I say here!)

[aswim]

Although if they changed it to a certain number for each event this would be unfair. If the quality is there in some events and not others then it would be unfair, as if a not as good breaststroker got in and a 200 freestyler who was better based on bagcat points excetera never got in just because there was not the same quality of youngsters in the breaststroke as were in the frontcrawl, then i think this would be more harsh on the younger swimmers.

[ringer]

As Gina said earlier in this thread the conditions for this event have been removed from the ASA website....
...so, could someone please remind me how many swimmers compete in the finals, 8 or 10? and in semi's 16 or 20?
PP says max 2 foreign compeitors in finals but is there a "foreign competitor limit" for semi's?
Thanks.

[Linny]

As Gina said earlier in this thread the conditions for this event have been removed from the ASA website....Google? :angel:

Try www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4716-173134-190352-102278-0-file,00.pdf (http://www.sportcentric.com/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4716-173134-190352-102278-0-file,00.pdf)


Can't see any reference to restrictions on foreign competitors although that's not to say it's not written somewhere else in rules and regs. This is different to the trials where it was specifically said "[f] A maximum of two competitors not eligible to represent Great Britain will be permitted to swim in the semi-finals; none will be permitted to swim in a final."
Postscript - Just checked, the handbook says the conditions are what is published on the website.

[ringer]

Thanks Linny. My Google effort only produced the current page!!!
So it is 20 semi finalists and 10 finalists...makes sense in a 10 lane pool of course!
Apparently no restriction on number of foreign competitors in finals then. Is this the norm in Youth and ASA LC Nationals? Will come as a surprise to PP and others presumably and will limit the opportunity for our home-growns to make finals.

[swimbar]

Its the norm where the event is not a specific trials meet.
The first three swimmers from England, Scotland or Wales will still get a medal irrespective of who wins the event. Looking at the entries in the Youth and Long Course could be six medals awarded in some finals!!.

[Linny]

Its the norm where the event is not a specific trials meet.
The first three swimmers from England, Scotland or Wales will still get a medal irrespective of who wins the event. Looking at the entries in the Youth and Long Course could be six medals awarded in some finals!!.Why do the ASA award medals to swimmers from Scotland and Wales?

[swimbar]

Whilst it may not say so the ASA Age Groups & Youth are effectively the British Age Group & Youth Championships. Scotland & Wales are allowed to enter teams. I believe that English Swimmers get a medal at the Scottish Championships and it seems reasonable to me to do the same. My daughter got medals years ago when she swam the Dragon Meet and she is certainly not Welsh!! I am not aware of the current position. Scotland and Wales are only celtic regions of England anyway!!

[Phil Tanner]

Welsh Youths (open entry) restricts finals to four but will add swimmers to make a final of five or six should non-Welsh swimmers qualify. Normal medals go to Welsh swimmers only, with commemorative medals to any others finishing in the top three. There are also B finals which I think are open across the board.

Welsh Age Groups is Welsh entants only.

Ingerlund is a Romanized region of Wales, anyway. :)

[Linny]

Whilst it may not say so the ASA Age Groups & Youth are effectively the British Age Group & Youth Championships. I know but why? Shouldn't we take it in turns or have a seperate one? (a bit like parliaments :angel:)

Oh and if there were 3 French folk came 1st, 2nd and 3rd I can assure you that if an English swimmer came 4th in a Scottish Championships that they would get nothing. In fact I found out last week that if they were Scottish but training elsewhere and not a paid up member of Scottish Swimming that they would get nothing either. The first paid up Scot home gets summat if they are not one of the first three anyway.

Very magnanimous of the ASA I say.

[swimbar]

Cant imagine that all the english swimmers, which make up large precentage, would want to travel to Scotland every three years. Cost implications are huge for parents.
Its a bit like those who seem to want a Short Course champs again after the NAG & YTH champs.
Has no one any regard for the parents who have to pay?.
Its alright for coaches because they are generally being paid to be there and are on expenses, hence they think its a good idea.
:aarrgghh:

[Linny]

Cant imagine that all the english swimmers, which make up large precentage, would want to travel to Scotland every three years.
Cost implications are huge for parents.
Its a bit like those who seem to want a Short Course champs again after the NAG & YTH champs.
Has no one any regard for the parents who have to pay?
Its alright for coaches because they are generally being paid to be there and are on expenses, hence they think its a good idea.
:aarrgghh:Can't imagine that Scottish and Welsh Swimmers (who make up a significant percentage albeit not large) wouldn't like to occasionally stay at home? Cost implications are huge for parents.

Has no one any regard for the parents who have to pay?;)

Actually swimbar I understand what you are saying I just think it is funny that the ASAs are the British Age Group and Youths. I think it is funny that funding for GB Clubs and swimmers and places on GB programmes are decided at an English championships (and yes I know there are changes this year); I mean can you imagine Bill putting up with that if everything was decided at a European Championships held in Germany every year?

Look I'm just bored and thinking aloud....

[KJ89]

Last year swimmers had to pick to swim in the youth final or the championship final. What is happening this year? can you swim in both since the youth final is before the championship semis?

[Linny]

Looks like it! How sensible, er, I think.

Mixing these meets sure does make life complicated. :confused: