Isn't about time we sorted this out? [Archive]

lane4

23-01-2002, 09:16 AM

Foster is not anywhere near worthy of this list. It is a joke that anyone would even consider him for it. I demand his removal from the list forthwith!

Notable absentees from the list (all who are miles ahead of Foster) that came into my head in the first 10 seconds of thinking about it include the following:
Biondi, Hoogenband, Darnyi, Dolan, Naber, Hackett (Bobby and Grant), Salnikov, Pankratov, Sadovyi, Gaines, Morales, Rouse, Weissmuller, Gross, Schollander, Matthes, as well as British favourites Moorhouse and Goodhew.

If any women were to be considered, how about:
Otto, Gould, Fraser, De Bruijn (Inge not Michelle), Evans, Heynes, Egerszegi, O'Neill, Meagher, Babashoff, Schneider, Thompsen, Ender.

However, at the end of the day its all pointless as Spitz was the best ever, easily. Thorpe and Phelps may push him close in years to come but not yet.

lane4

23-01-2002, 09:17 AM

Why I hear you ask?
Well among other things he won 7 gold medals in 7 world records in one Olympics that's why. That's more than enough.

lane4

23-01-2002, 09:20 AM

The person who voted for Krayzelburg ahead of Spitz and Popov was obviously trying to wind the rest of us up. Don't let them.

sisclub

23-01-2002, 11:27 AM

How can you say that Mark Foster does not deserve a place on the board. He is proberly one of the best British Swimmers in the 20th Century!!!!

Steve

23-01-2002, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by mattcuckston
How can you say that Mark Foster does not deserve a place on the board. He is proberly one of the best British Swimmers in the 20th Century!!!!

I disagree with that - I think there are lots of british swimmers form the 20th century that are better than Foster - although that is not to say he isn't a good swimmer, just that he isn't one of the best of the century.

On purely medals won and records broken I reckon Nick Gillingham must be there or thereabouts (Olympic silver and bronze, 3 consecutive european championship golds, world championship gold and several world records at least), but people such as Goodhew, Moorhouse, Wilkie, Lonsborough, etc. all have a better claim than Mark (funny how we seem to produce lots of breastrokers..)

lane4

23-01-2002, 01:00 PM

Because he has never won an Olympic medal - thats one reason and a very big reason at that.

Michael

23-01-2002, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by lane4
Foster is not anywhere near worthy of this list. It is a joke that anyone would even consider him for it. I demand his removal from the list forthwith!

The list was made from names that were already mentioned in the forum. Let's not get :mad: about it, we'll just add a few more.

:idea: Best not to have too long a list though or there will never be a winner!

Originally posted by lane4
Do you have something against women Michael or are they just not as good (relatively) as men at swimming?

Again, the list was made from names already mentioned but I'll nominate Susie O'Neill to start people off.

PS: I voted for Lenny and I'm proud of it :D, the way he swam the 200 final in Sydney is enough for me. The entire last 50m he was wrecked but he wanted that Gold more than anything and his determination was unreal!!!

Here's to Lenny Krazelburg :cheers:

crawler

23-01-2002, 01:19 PM

You've all beaten me to the mark by replying so soon on the Mark Foster thread.
There is no way he can be considered the best - I see him as a very flawed character.
He has failed to rise to any challenge on the Olympic,World, Euro LC stage, underachieving every time. Proof that he is unprofessional can be seen by his variety of excuses - goggles, late to blocks, gulped a breath and choked, etc., etc. The sight of him still dressing as he arrived at the blocks at Antwerp recently was the limit. I was angered by this rather than sympathetic. No time to focus, etc.
I demand the return by him of his lottery funds this instant.
There, feel better for that.

lane4

23-01-2002, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Michael

Again, the list was made from names already mentioned but I'll nominate Susie O'Neill to start people off.

PS: I voted for Lenny and I'm proud of it :D, the way he swam the 200 final in Sydney is enough for me. The entire last 50m he was wrecked but he wanted that Gold more than anything and his determination was unreal!!!

Here's to Lenny Krazelburg :cheers:

Hey don't worry Mikey, it may well be that women are not worthy of a mention ahead of the men - that would be a good topic for debate on another thread perhaps!?

And as for Lenny, well yes it was a great swim in Sydney, I know, I was there watching it, but come on, it did not make him the best swimmer ever! A bit of backstroke bias from you perhaps given that's your number one stroke? ;)

Bazza

23-01-2002, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by lane4
Why I hear you ask?
Well among other things he won 7 gold medals in 7 world records in one Olympics that's why. That's more than enough.

Among what other things?:confused:
I've never heard of him achieving anything else. In fact I understand he didn't really achieve much else, just burst onto the scene in Munich, then disappeared again just as quickly. At the risk of being controversial, how good was doping back then?!?!:devil:
I'd like to vote for lots of people, but I can't, so I may have to stick a pin in the monitor (figuratively speaking, of course!!:D )

Swim21

03-05-2002, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by mattcuckston
How can you say that Mark Foster does not deserve a place on the board. He is proberly one of the best British Swimmers in the 20th Century!!!!

Put Foster in a proper sized pool and he's crap!

The guy can't swim fast, he relies purely on his starts and turns.

That can not make him the best British Swimmer of any time.

Perhaps we should have a vote on who's the best at starts and turns, he may then get a look in, somewhere behind James Hickman!

Deaks

03-05-2002, 10:02 AM

I would have to nominate Kristina Egerzegi (sp!). She was one of the most formidable swimmers I ever swam against. She was always so quiet before races but then would come out and dominate races from the start. She couldn't speak a word of English but if you saw her after the race she would always acknowledge you with a smile, rather than look down on you from above...

When she set the world record in the 200 back in Athens in 1991 she was at least 10m in front of anyone else in the field, including myself!!

Steve

03-05-2002, 04:48 PM

I have to agree about Kristina, she certainly had/has one of the best backstroke techniques I've ever seen and was always held up as an example by my coach.

The other great hungarian swimmer was Tamas Darnyi, who for my money must be one of the best medley swimmers ever (potted bio below) - all four of his strokes were excellent, but like Egerszegi (I think that's how it is spelt!) IIRC his backstroke was fantastic.

Tamas Darnyi
Born: June 3, 1967
Hungarian swimmer
2-time double gold medal winner in 200m and 400m individual medley at 1988 and '92 Olympics; also won both events in 1986 and '91 world championships; set world records in both at '91 worlds; 1st swimmer to break 2 minutes in 200m IM (1:59:36).

Michael

03-05-2002, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Steve Buckley
...always held up as an example by my coach.

My first coach (around 1989/1990) would mention her everytime we did backstroke and I used to think "egger...what's he talking about???"

Then I saw the swim in 1991 and couldn't believe how much she won by!!!!

Another backstroke swimmer that stands out is American Jeff Rouse, I saw him swim short course at Sheffield, not that I remember much about his technique! He did around 22m under water on all four 25's in the 100m. :eek:

(Chris - isn't it about time the poll at the top was adjusted and we had a major vote on this issue!!)

violet

05-07-2002, 06:04 AM

i choose ian thorpe :)

Meiri

05-07-2002, 08:06 AM

My vote went to Popov.
I think he's the best sprinter the world have ever seen! and he's really nice too...

swimmer

06-07-2002, 08:49 AM

in my opinion the the best is DAWN FRASIER becuase of the success she achived inspite of what she had to overcome. umm to the poll starter:..... the word SEXIST springs to mind!;)

violet

07-07-2002, 07:04 PM

i don't like dawn fraser as a person...i respect her achievements in swimming but not as a person.

Bazza

09-07-2002, 08:40 AM

Back on topic, looking at the votes, it's mostly modern swimmers who dominate - Thorpe and Popov in particular. Spitz and Wilkie have fared well, but Perkins for example has only one vote. I guess this is due to the age of many of the people who probably voted.

I for example can just about remember Perkins, but I couldn't tell you why he deserves to be voted the greatest swimmer of all time. I'm still not convinced Ian Thorpe deserves to receive that title, although I have no doubt he will be up there by the time he's finished! He's very similar to Tiger Woods in that he dominates the sport and has achieved some phenomonal things already, yet although he promises to deliver so much more, maybe it's a bit too soon to be calling him the greatest.

violet

09-07-2002, 05:02 PM

i remember kieren perkins - i've actually met him and i have his autograph. i remember watching him win in barcelona, canada and atlanta. he was a fantastic swimmer - i wouldn't call him the greatest though.

swimusa

09-07-2002, 07:28 PM

I wouldn't call David Wilkie the greatest either. He is amazing, yes, but not the stuff dreams are made of. I would say Mark Andrew Spitz is the greatest for his era because of the feat he accomplished in 1972, which has yet to be repeated. Thorpe though I agree cannot be considered the greatest because there are still years left in his career.

glen_75

05-08-2002, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by lane4

Notable absentees from the list (all who are miles ahead of Foster) that came into my head in the first 10 seconds of thinking about it include the following:
Biondi, Hoogenband, Darnyi, Dolan, Naber, Hackett (Bobby and Grant), Salnikov, Pankratov, Sadovyi, Gaines, Morales, Rouse, Weissmuller, Gross, Schollander, Matthes, as well as British favourites Moorhouse and Goodhew.

If any women were to be considered, how about:
Otto, Gould, Fraser, De Bruijn (Inge not Michelle), Evans, Heynes, Egerszegi, O'Neill, Meagher, Babashoff, Schneider, Thompsen, Ender.

Interesting, you make a point of not including Michelle Smith De Bruijn, yet you mention Kristin Otto?

As to those who select Mark Spitz as the best all time. Well, its more like he had the best peformance all time. I would say that Ian Thorpe is or soon will be the best PEFORMER of all time. Spitz had one helluva meet. Granted that meet happened to be the biggest meet ofall. OK, but apart from that meet he would've been a flop. He bragged before Mexico City about the medals he was going to win and his teammates ate him for lunch.

Bazza

06-08-2002, 10:09 AM

Yes what Spitz did in Munich will never be repeated, but I don't think one week can make a person an all time great?

mad4it

23-01-2004, 07:08 PM

Hackett or Hoogenband all the way, great achievements, and perphaps more to come!!! for women i'd say inge de bruijn, amazing athlete! :D

mad4it

23-01-2004, 07:15 PM

i think all the guyz currently on the poll are worthy of respect for their achievements, altho I have to say that there will never be a "best" person, some great people but everyone has there own individual strengths and weaknesses, and unless a person was truly great at all events (and distances), he (or she) would then be the "best" in my mind.
realistically tho, when will you get a swimmer who can do 50fc, 1500fc, 200bc, 100bc, 400fc, 50brs, 200fly and 400im at a world class standard (records and all)!!

(sorry if there is someone who currently does all these events at a top level, please inform me as im not aware of them!!!! :D)

Bazza

23-01-2004, 07:58 PM

I think Phelps comes close enough, and certainly don't think Thorpe deserves to be the runaway winner of this poll, as recent events have shown.

londoner62

23-01-2004, 08:08 PM

I always remember looking up to Brian Brinkley (circa 1972)!

Bazza

23-01-2004, 08:14 PM

Not Spitz?!

londoner62

23-01-2004, 08:33 PM

I voted for Spitz in this poll but BB held the British record for the 100, 200, 400, 800 and 1500M free, the 100, 200 fly, 200 and 400 IM long course. Short course (see above) (Real men didn't do 50's back then)

Paul
(I raced him once at the Empire pool but thats another story)

swimbuoy

23-01-2004, 09:22 PM

Barring injury or illness, POST Athens, I think Phelps will win this poll hands down. His versatility is unmatched & I think he is ahead of Spitz & Biondi in this respect. It seems he can sprint (and is rapidly improving here), swim the 200's to the highest level, his distance free is incredible and of course we all know what he does on the IM's. Add to this his presence in the strong USA relays & who knows what will happen? Perhaps after this he may fancy a bit of breaststroke.......all I can say is watch out Mr Edmond if this ever happens.

So if he is one for the future (& present), how about a blast from the past. One of my favourite swimmers was always Anders Holmertz from Sweden. He was mainly a middle distance freestyler, who seemed to make up for a lack of talent by being very tough. He always commited so much to each swim, but would often just fail to land the big prize, & always seemed to lose out in the last 5m.

Pete

24-01-2004, 12:09 AM

Two British swimmers in the poll. If you are being patriotic then Wilkie wins hands down. Olympic Gold in a world record by over three seconds. Could that happen today in a Breaststroke event?

Bazza

24-01-2004, 12:53 PM

swimbuoy

24-01-2004, 01:21 PM

No because Kitajima has beaten it a couple of times recently. I think as the times get faster it is harder to make such big improvements and also in the older days the Olympics really was THE event - they didn't have World and European championships every year in which world records could be improved. I think we see far more world records now, but usually by smaller margins (often hundreds or tenths).Taking nothing away from Wilkie of course.

So no, probably not in an Olympic event, but didn't Thorpe do it over 400? I'm sure there have been big World Records in recent times (maybe over 400 by Thorpe and Phelps and Hackett) but maybe not in the Olympic final.

Yes you are right it is unusual these days for more than a second to be taken off a world record.

Thorpe took around 2 seconds off Perkins world 400m free record when he first broke it.

Hackett took 7 seconds off Perkins world 1500m record, a longer distance i know but impressive nevertheless.

Phelps seems to be doing it the sensible way & consistently chopping off half a second to a second each time. Probably more fun, more headlines & more $$$$!!

Katie

25-01-2004, 05:13 PM

Leisel Jones took over a second off the 200 brst shortcourse didn't she? I remember thinking how much she'd improved it by.

swimbuoy

31-01-2004, 02:28 PM

and wheres does Adam Faulkner fit into all this - bless his cotton socks :king:

Errr............... in a list of the worlds best swimmers?........................try page 35 somewhere between Jamie King and Eric the eel!!

:p :p :p

swimbuoy

31-01-2004, 05:39 PM

Oh thats harsh. :rolleyes:

Why the interest in Adam Faulkner? ;)

swimbuoy

01-02-2004, 10:49 PM

;) :p Good friend of mine!

Special friend eh??!!

swimbuoy

03-02-2004, 09:58 PM

Pass!

Enough said! ;)

Top10ranking

13-12-2004, 09:26 PM

heres a question why aren't i there?? :devil: :devil:

Gina

13-12-2004, 11:34 PM

You will be there if you keep working hard. I think I saw you chatting to Katie at Haslemere and you certainly have the height!!!

Can anyone guess my fave swimmer?!?! Well Simon is one, but after watching the Euros I do think Thomas Rupprath has an amazing underwater kick. He stormed to victory in the 50 back!

Katie

14-12-2004, 08:23 AM

I was watching him at the Euros as well, he really did have amazing underwater!! I thought Rogan was really good too - I was willing him to win that 100 back!! SO close!

Leprechaun

14-12-2004, 09:45 AM

As an old-timer I had the choice of Spitz or Wilkie (plus a few others if one rakes through the history books. When I started competitive swimming it seemed there were two groups as swimmers (at least in my club) - those who did breast and those who were s&it-hot at everything else. So when Spitz won his bagful on free and fly that didn't seem too difficult!! Looking back from an older, certainly not wiser, perspective I think it was amazing though.

However my vote is for Wilkie, a) he's a Brit and went through the Brit system (OK it included time is USA.) b) that improvement in the final - 3 secs someone said - was phenomenal.

Not sure if his book is still in print but its a good read and the comparison with today's training regimes would be interesting!

Rushton

14-12-2004, 04:28 PM

My vote goes to Kieren Perkins. :rolleyes:

Top10ranking

14-12-2004, 04:54 PM

You will be there if you keep working hard. I think I saw you chatting to Katie at Haslemere and you certainly have the height!!!

thanks :rolleyes:

Chris

14-12-2004, 05:32 PM

My vote goes to Kieren Perkins. :rolleyes:
Why the rolly eyes Rushton??

You being sarcastic or what ....

Welcome to the forums by the way :p

gazagroove

16-12-2004, 01:10 PM

foster is also a lazy , admittedly amazing swimmer.
IF he actually did try hard then maybe id conisder him, but no.
my coach said hes lazy wen he used to coach him for a week or 2.

typhoon

17-12-2004, 08:28 AM

Van den hoogenband 100 free athens was awsome and he's dutch

Nikki

21-12-2004, 12:09 PM

Hi everyone im new to these forums. :) i dont think that you could call mark foster lazy he has just won 2 golds at the europeans and 1 at the worlds, he cant be that lazy if he can do that! :devil:
nikki

KJ89

21-12-2004, 03:25 PM

Andy Fraser

21-12-2004, 08:03 PM

Ian Thorpe is the best!

Nikki

21-12-2004, 09:18 PM

Welcome to the forums :)

Thanks KJ! :rainbow:

LongAxisCombo

22-04-2005, 02:20 PM

I realize this poll is old, but picked other since Phelps wasn't an option (for obvious reasons) He's not my favorite swimmer, but what he's doing in the water and the wide range of events he's doing it over is amazing. I've always felt that the 400 IM was the test of the best all around swimmer, and no one can touch Phelps there.

Spidey

07-05-2005, 08:50 AM

FlyingBean

08-05-2005, 05:42 AM

Depends on who is the best at what, Starts, turns, sprints, distance, getting sposorship, looking good on telly, I could go on - (and you can all say I do), I think FB is quite fab - 200m Fly - she makes it look so easy. :rainbow:
Wotever!!!!!! You certainly have plenty of time to assess my 200 fly it goes on and on and on and on..... Speed is optional isn't it?

aswim

26-06-2005, 03:13 PM

Gina

26-06-2005, 03:32 PM

I Don't Know Why Phelps Is Not On This List? Any Reasons? I Think He Is One Of The Best If Not The Best. Any Other Suggestions? Is It Only In One Century Or Something? And He Wasn't Around? Thanks Aswim

This thread was started in January of 2002! I don't really remember hearing about Phelps back then, only Thorpe was the great one at the time with no challengers!

I ticked other because I think Phelps is the greatest. He is an allrounder which puts him up there to start with, but he is quite far ahead of the rest in the IM evens and he isn't scared to race and take on swimmers in his not so strong strokes such as free and back. Love him!

I personally think he will last longer than Thorpe, not saying Thorpe is quitting soon. But he is talented in various areas of swimming not just middle distance free like Thorpe. It keeps his swimming a tad bit interesting. Maybe Thorpe should try doing more backstroke?!

Spidey

02-07-2005, 02:08 PM

Have not heard of Rebecca Cooke for a while, anyone know what she is up to?

Taxiandbank

03-07-2005, 05:45 AM

Have not heard of Rebecca Cooke for a while, anyone know what she is up to?
Scottish Nationals
800 fr
Rebecca J COOKE (83) Co Glasgow 8:38.08 904 1:01.96 2:06.63 3:11.64 4:17.00 5:22.49 6:28.43 7:33.76
400 fr
Rebecca J COOKE (83) Co Glasgow 4:19.48 879 30.21 1:02.62 1:35.03 2:07.65 2:40.17 3:13.23 3:46.29
TandB

Spidey

17-07-2005, 06:42 PM

I have loads of favourite swimmers, and if they go to the following link SCASA link (http://www.southernswimming.org/swimming/results_2005/sc_masters/) they'd be able to enter the SCASA Senior & Masters S/C competition. :rainbow:

Steve Nash

30-08-2005, 03:54 PM

Yes what Spitz did in Munich will never be repeated, but I don't think one week can make a person an all time great?

Remember, although he flopped in Mexico when he was 18 merely winning a couple of silvers, he still held the world records at that time. So we are not talking about one week here.

Steve Nash

30-08-2005, 03:58 PM

and unless a person was truly great at all events (and distances), he (or she) would then be the "best" in my mind.
realistically tho, when will you get a swimmer who can do 50fc, 1500fc, 200bc, 100bc, 400fc, 50brs, 200fly and 400im at a world class standard (records and all)!!

(sorry if there is someone who currently does all these events at a top level, please inform me as im not aware of them!!!! :D)

Thats why Brian Brinkley could be rated the best Brit ever - he used to do all of this. Once recall him at the 75 nationals doing 400 IM in GB record and then breaking the 100m Free record 30 mins later.