BAGCATS - Good or bad?

[Chris]

As I mentioned in a previous post, we've just held the 2001 Channel Island Championships - Weekend 1 in Guernsey for 13 and under, Weekend 2 in Jersey for 14 and over.

I officiated during the first weekend with the youngsters, and competed during the second weekend.

The BAGCATS system was being used for the first time (including the Sportsystem software).

I don't know what peoples' opinions of BAGCATS as a whole are, but a couple of points have arisen in my mind:

1. Isn't it more important for the younger swimmers (those swimmers that BAGCATS was created for) to receive medals/penants/awards on an individual event basis rather than the groupings that are used by BAGCATS? I always thought that the idea was to encourage these swimmers, but unless you compete in all the events, you're not going to get anything. Medals and things aren't quite so important for us old-timers!!

2. It seemed to me that because of the need to score points in the categories, swimmers were swimming a lot of events. Now I know that it's important not to try and limit swimmers to one stroke at an early age, but there were some pretty punishing schedules for some swimmers.

3. Sportsystem software - I hope that somebody introduces an alternative very soon (preferably not DOS-based)

4. How do you see the BAGCATS system developing in the future?

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Chris (Webmaster)
Beau Sejour Barracudas Swimming Club - Guernsey
http://www.barracudas-sc.org.gg/

[BigFish]

I kind of liked the idea for encouraging younger kids to swim more events. But when I thought about it some more, I realised that it would still be the same people at the top of the BagCats table as were winning the medals before. Where it might have been possible for a surprise medal win in the odd event, it's now pretty much guaranteed that the medals will *always* be shared between a very small group.

As for SportSystems, is there anyone out there who actually likes it, and why is it taking so long to throw a Windows version together? Oh, if only I had more time ;-)

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David Cuthbert (www.dartes.co.uk)
news@DaveC.org.uk

[Robert]

Originally posted by BigFish:
I kind of liked the idea for encouraging younger kids to swim more events. But when I thought about it some more, I realised that it would still be the same people at the top of the BagCats table as were winning the medals before. Where it might have been possible for a surprise medal win in the odd event, it's now pretty much guaranteed that the medals will *always* be shared between a very small group.

As for SportSystems, is there anyone out there who actually likes it, and why is it taking so long to throw a Windows version together? Oh, if only I had more time ;-)

Sportsystems is promoted by the ASA as they get Rankings systems and National meets software. The Districts and Counties get meets software GIVEN AWAY FREE. It is a virtual Monopoly. There is (apparently) no money in developing specialist software for the UK swimming community. Alternatives are SOLENT SOFTWARE, HI-TEK, (both dos) and a Windows sustem being developed by ROY SMILES out of Bournemouth SC. email smilesroy@cs.com for more details and read the puffs in latest edtion of UK SWIMMING magazine.

BAGCATS are a only an experiment. We should always regard the winning of individual events as important at the younger levels AND the promotion of better times for the strokes and distances in each age category. They tell the swimmer more about his/her strengths and weaknesses. Running two sessions plus a finals session per day and each event as open means only two or three heat swims a day per swimmer in our county (Middlesex)
Hardly cramming. The swimmers can better focus on each event. Just makes the county competition five weekends long. Groan.

[Chris]

The Hy-Tek software is now Windows-based and the demo looks good.

We are looking to adopt it here in Guernsey ahead of Sportsystem (which we can't stand) and in a weeks time I'm coming over to the mainland to watch a competition somewhere in the south of England where they're already using it.

The only problem I can foresee is that Hy-Tek are a US firm, and accordingly the BAGCATS interface is unlikely to be a priority - if a prospect at all.

Apparently the ASA are/have been given a demo of the Hy-Tek system.

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Chris (Webmaster)
Beau Sejour Barracudas Swimming Club - Guernsey
http://www.barracudas-sc.org.gg/

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 08 February 2001).]

[lunchtime.swimmer]

When Hants Champs were held last year we
hadn't even seen the tables and at least this
year can better target events.
One day I'll sit down and see how it scores NAG qualifying times. Wouldn't
less popular events (200 Fly springs to mind) suffer
through fewer times to allow an update?
Ah Sportsystem!
In its defence it performed brilliantly "On-Line" on the day of the meet. Only one crash
during a very long day.
The inflexibility though in set up caused me
moments of desperation-I won't bore you with the details.
BAGpoints upgrade at £ 100 caused me to grind my teeth somewhat.
Can it carry forward static information to the following year's event, or is it a case of setting up from scratch....
Time for bed!

[This message has been edited by lunchtime.swimmer (edited 09 February 2001).]

[Coach]

The concept of encouraging swimmers to enter more events and for coaches to concentrate on swimmers long term development is a good one.

However most swimmers want to be champions now, and won't be swimming when they are 16/17+.

As for Sports systems, there is an unhealthy, ASA promoted monopoly (sounds familiar??)

[Pete]

The system has reduced the Surrey's to an elite champs. Only 18 (max) in each event per age group. I have so many swimmers now not able to compete in the county champs and others qualifying for maybe a couple of events. This was once the most important competition of the year. Now many have no competition for 5 weeks. Our job as coaches is difficult enough but now demob fever has set in because they feel swimming is treating them badly. Is this the way grass roots should go?

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Looking forward to hearing from fellow coaches and keen swimmers needing help.

[Linda]

I think one of the problems is that the local ASA authorities have been given more events to squeeze into the same amount of time. Also, in Berks & S Bucks, we have consideration times rather than qualifying times. Therefore the swimmers can't be sure whether they've qualified or not. Also, in Berks & S Bucks, there is no mention of BAGCATS in the literature which they have distributed. My 10 year old daughter is expecting to be part of the BAGCATS system, is wanting to do well in all events, but we're not sure if this system will be run. I'm all for BAGCATS, I understand the reasons behind it, but it should be implemented properly and not half heartedly. Obviously it needs to be supported by a good software system.

[lunchtime.swimmer]

A comment on Pete's point re: restricted entries.This seems an
incredibly low no.
of swimmers allowed.
I know that last year Hants champs were
v pleased with no. of entries, but I think
it was really only because people hadn't
seen how the BAGpoints worked.
I'm sure people will be more selective
this year and entries (=money) will be
greatly reduced.
Do your counties hold a separate Dev. meet?
If so how are entries restricted?
I ask as here swimmers can compete in any
stroke that they haven't swum in County
champs. So you get the same old swimmers
winning events, despite having also
competed in champs. This always exasperates me and I'm
sure it will be worse this year in view of
BAGpoint system.
PS I feel as though I've done nothing but
moan since finding this site. Sorry as it's
a sport I really enjoy!

[This message has been edited by lunchtime.swimmer (edited 16 February 2001).]