British Championships

[swim313]

Can someone please tell me where the british championship times are. I keep hearing people tlking about how many they have. Is it the Senior long course times held at the same time as nationals or something different?

[Pink Paraffin]

The GB Long Course times for March 2007 are not publsihed yet. It seems to have been deemed more efficient to publish the times needed for the August 2007 Nationals at this stage in the season...

The British Championships are currently held at Easter and on this occasion, they treble up as the Trials for the European Youth Olympics and European Junior Championships held later in 2007 (as well as being a British Championships to decide upon British Champions)

I have seen a Draft copy that went to the ASA Technical Swimming Committee last week and therefore, unless they decided to re-write them, they should be on the British Swimming web imminently

[swim313]

Thanks pink. Very clear and helpfull

[ringer]

Does anyone please have a working link to or an attachment of the British LC Championship QTs from 2006?
The old pages have disappeared from the ASA/BS site and there doesn't appear to be a record in this forum's archive.
I'm just interested whilst waiting for the 2007 QTs to be released to have an indication of the old targets.

[rogant stard]

Does anyone please have a working link to or an attachment of the British LC Championship QTs from 2006?
The old pages have disappeared from the ASA/BS site and there doesn't appear to be a record in this forum's archive.
I'm just interested whilst waiting for the 2007 QTs to be released to have an indication of the old targets.

Info attached..

[ringer]

Many thanks RS....just what I was after.:)

[Silver Fox]

Looking at the BS Technical Swimming Committee Meeting Minutes dated 5th.October 2006 Section 4.3, it was suggested that the Qualifying Times should be revised...does this now mean that we have to wait until the next meeting on 10th.November 2006 before we will know what they are...Laurie

[ringer]

Qualifying times are now released

http://www.sportcentric.com/vmgmt/vfilemgmt/page/filedownload/1,8202,5026-49221-113856-0-file,00.pdf

[Silver Fox]

Have got them... many thanks to all the swimclub members who have been keeping a check on them...well what do you think ???

[ringer]

1. Most of the events have a slower qt requirement than last year.
2. No 800 for men or 1500 for women.
3. The number of entries will swell and provide revenue for BS at £9.50 per event.
4. No requirement for semi finalists and finalists to achieve the qualifying standard will ensure full fields in later rounds.
5. Evening heats at 4.00pm and morning finals at 8.00am are to be swum.
6. Time trials in Olympic events to be available on the morning when heats in that event are to be swum.

[Emosmum]

Could someone out there please provide a link to entry forms / meet information details etc re European trials etc , as and when they become available ?
Have seen the qualifying times on ASA Website .
Thanks Emosmum
:wave:

[Backstroker88]

5. Evening heats at 4.00pm and morning finals at 8.00am are to be swum.
6. Time trials in Olympic events to be available on the morning when heats in that event are to be swum.

Hi where can i view this info?

[ringer]

There are two sources:

1.http://www.sportcentric.com/vmgmt/vfilemgmt/page/filedownload/1,8202,5026-49221-113564-0-file,00.pdf


2.http://www.sportcentric.com/vmgmt/vfilemgmt/page/filedownload/1,8202,5026-49221-114193-0-file,00.pdf

[swim313]

can you please tell me someone what is meant by Time Trial at the gb champs. Can you enter outside the times to swim these and try and qualify? Does not seem to be any explanations.

[Bazza]

I believe the plan is with evening heats, in the morning they will swim time trials and if you get the qualifying time, you may then compete in the heats of the event that evening (and beyond if you are fast enough!).

This seems mostly for swimmers already attending the meet who want to compete in other events they didn't enter/qualify for previously. Seems unliekly someone would attend just for a time trial.

[Taxiandbank]

I believe the plan is with evening heats, in the morning they will swim time trials and if you get the qualifying time, you may then compete in the heats of the event that evening (and beyond if you are fast enough!).

This seems mostly for swimmers already attending the meet who want to compete in other events they didn't enter/qualify for previously. Seems unliekly someone would attend just for a time trial.

Unless you are from SER!:aarrgghh:

[Emosmum]

Can anyone confirm the age , is it 31st December 2007 .... or age on day ?

Cheers Emosmum

[ruthcp]

31st December 2007 (Hurray!!) :)

[storpedo]

can some one confirm that I have got this right - cos I think I am getting a bit dim in me old age

If you have the qualifying time, you and you send in an entry you are automatically in the heats, but if you have just missed a time and you are there you can enter the time trials in the morning and if you make the qulaification time swim in the heats in the afternoon

[Pink Paraffin]

If you have the qualifying time, you and you send in an entry you are automatically in the heats, but if you have just missed a time and you are there you can enter the time trials in the morning and if you make the qulaification time swim in the heats in the afternoon

Correct

[storpedo]

Thanks 'Pink Parafin', this will be the first time that my Son has made any qualification times and provided that his school will allow him time off (just let them try and stop him:eek: ) he will be there, his coach did not know the answer to this question either, but I told him I knew a forum that would!:)

[swim313]

Unless you are from SER!

What do you mean by that Taxibank. Why SER?

[Taxiandbank]

Unless you are from SER!

What do you mean by that Taxibank. Why SER?

See the thread about some clubs not swimming at SER because it was SC and therefore no use for qualifying for GB LC.

[Bazza]

How does that affect their ability to do a time trial?

[swimbar]

Because if you cannot enter the Championships in any event, because you have not got any Long Course Qualifying times, you cannot do any timetrials. You cannot turn up on the day to do a time trial if you are not already entered in another event in the Championships.

[swim313]

I thought the idea was that anyone can do the time trials if they want to try and get the qualifying time. Where does it say only if you are already at the champs?

[Taxiandbank]

I thought the idea was that anyone can do the time trials if they want to try and get the qualifying time. Where does it say only if you are already at the champs?

I assume that we are all guessing as no criteria have been published yet. Like how do relay teams qualify?

[swimbar]

Conditions now on British Swimming Website.
Confirmation that time trials are only available to those already entered in the Championships as individuals or a member of a team which has been entered.
No qualifying times for teams. Presumably only the major clubs with at least four entrants will bother!!

[Taxiandbank]

Conditions now on British Swimming Website.
Confirmation that time trials are only available to those already entered in the Championships as individuals or a member of a team which has been entered.
No qualifying times for teams. Presumably only the major clubs with at least four entrants will bother!!

But no entry form for relays?

[swimbar]

Draft Programme now on British Swimming Website.

http://www.sportcentric.com/vmgmt/vfilemgmt/page/filedownload/1,8202,5026-49221-118870-0-file,00.pdf

[storpedo]

Thanks for the link - checked DS race and they did enter him into the 100 backstroke and not the 200 butterfly as automatic reply said! I think that he will be just a bit relieved

[lane4]

Draft Programme now on British Swimming Website.

Looks like the ridiculous cost of entering the relays has put a lot of teams off from doing so.

Also looks the meet is being combined this year with the French Nationals.

[Gina]

Looking at the meet conditions and the fact that only the 'juniors' are using this as trials for major meets, it seems the French swimmers can swim in the Open final unlike last year. Should be interesting with two sub 26 girls in there!

[Pink Paraffin]

Can Junior French swimmers swim in Junior Finals?

[Linny]

Can Junior French swimmers swim in Junior Finals?Only if said French swimmer is eligible to swim for GB so it would seem unlikely.

[Pink Paraffin]

Can the French swim time trials?

[Linny]

Can the French swim time trials?It seems quite clear that they can but unless, as suggested, it is simply a means of generating income without adding extra bodies I can't see why.

I suspect that British Swimming needs someone like you to ask these questions before they publish their meet conditions (and their selection policies :aarrgghh: ) rather than after. :D

[Silver Fox]

Just returned from British Championships...why oh why were there no medals for Junior winners ?
If it were not for the number of junior swimmers...this event would have been a farce...

[Bazza]

You mean it wasn't anyway? A British Champs with at least three French finalists in many events!

[swimbar]

Just returned from British Championships...why oh why were there no medals for Junior winners ?
If it were not for the number of junior swimmers...this event would have been a farce...

So who would get the Junior Medals?
The first three in the Junior Final?
What about the Juniors forced to swim in the Senior Final?

[Katie]

I haven't looked at the selection policy for European Juniors in depth, but surely some of the swimmers are effectively being penalised for swimming fast in the heats? I could be wrong, but it seems that the juniors making the top 16 HAVE to swim semi-finals, and so might be in an outside lane, and yet those going slower get to swim a junior final, with the chance of a better lane position, the following day? What if a swimmers does an excellent heat swim, and then swims slower in the semis than the juniors do in the junior final? Do they still miss selection for the EJC, even if their heat time remains the fastest overall? It doesn't seem to make sense!

Great swim from Marco in the 200 back :)

[hailstone]

Can anyone supply link to EJC site. The make up of the EJC team should be a good read as the no of swimmers who made the time is quite low.

[Linny]

I haven't looked at the selection policy for European Juniors in depth, but surely some of the swimmers are effectively being penalised for swimming fast in the heats? I could be wrong, but it seems that the juniors making the top 16 HAVE to swim semi-finals, and so might be in an outside lane, and yet those going slower get to swim a junior final, with the chance of a better lane position, the following day? What if a swimmers does an excellent heat swim, and then swims slower in the semis than the juniors do in the junior final? Do they still miss selection for the EJC, even if their heat time remains the fastest overall? It doesn't seem to make sense!

Great swim from Marco in the 200 back :)I just got very confused.

Looking at1.4. The remaining places in each individual Olympic event will be filled by the highest ranked ‘available’ swimmer(s) identified from times recorded in that event at the ‘Trials’ provided their time is equal to or faster than the qualifying standard specified in Table 1.with4.3. For selection from the ‘Trials’ in both individual and relay events, only qualifying times recorded at the ‘Trials’ in the Senior Finals, Senior Semi-Finals and ‘B’/Junior Finals will be considered.one would conclude as you have done that the fastest swimmer (s) from either a semi or any final would be selected because that is what we understand by highest ranked.

.....However when I looked at the second sentence of 4.34.3. cont...Times recorded in the Senior Finals will always take precedence over qualifying times recorded in the Senior Semi-Finals and ‘B’/Junior Finals.I concluded that qualifying times achieved in senior finals took priority even if they were slower than those achieved in the Junior/B finals and that being in the senior final actually meant that the swimmer was ranked higher.

.....However when I read4.6. If an equal placing occurs in the Senior Finals of an event under consideration for selection, the swimmer with the fastest time in either the Senior Semi-Finals or ‘B’/Junior Finals will be prioritised for selection. my theory started to come apart. Fine if two swimmers are not separable in the senior final then pick the one that was fastest in the semi but neither of them will have swum in the B/Junior final so what does it all mean?

Then I got really confused becauseIf the equal placing occurs in the Senior Semi-Finals and/or ‘B’/Junior Finals, the swimmer with the fastest time in the Heats will be prioritised for selection. If the equal placing occurs in the Heats, then a swim off will be required at a time to be determined by the Director of World Class Programmesbut according to 4.3 only times from Senior Finals, Senior Semi-Finals and ‘B’/Junior Finals will be considered.

I think Pink Paraffin should offer his services to British Swimming when they are writing their policies. Either that or we should all stop reading them. ;)

[Linny]

Can anyone supply link to EJC site. The make up of the EJC team should be a good read as the no of swimmers who made the time is quite low.Just spotted your post hailstone because you got in whilst I was replying to Katie and my quotes were giving me problems!

A quick look through reveals that you are right so determining which swimmers are selected from possible qualifiers is irrelevant in the circumstances. I wonder if the morning finals had a detrimental effect on some of our hopefuls? Real shame if it has because these young swimmers would not have been swimming morning finals in Antwerp.

[Katie]

Crikey, Ellen Gandy is turning into a great 400 free swimmer - 4.12.7 in the heat. Wow. :)

[lane4]

I haven't looked at the selection policy for European Juniors in depth, but surely some of the swimmers are effectively being penalised for swimming fast in the heats? I could be wrong, but it seems that the juniors making the top 16 HAVE to swim semi-finals, and so might be in an outside lane, and yet those going slower get to swim a junior final, with the chance of a better lane position, the following day? What if a swimmers does an excellent heat swim, and then swims slower in the semis than the juniors do in the junior final? Do they still miss selection for the EJC, even if their heat time remains the fastest overall? It doesn't seem to make sense!
I think you are pretty much correct there Katie. You are right that any junior making top 16 HAS to swim the semi, most probably in an outside lane, and a day before those who swam slower in the heats will swim in the junior final. However, times in the semi for the juniors take precedence over times in the junior final, so an EJC selection time in the semis will be selected ahead of a faster EJC selection time in the junior final. Likewise if a junior makes the senior final, they HAVE to swim it (or pull out of the whole event) and times in the senior final will be prioritised over times recorded in the semis or the junior final. And yes your scenario could well occur that a very fast heat time is ultimately not considered for selection because slower qualifying times were done in junior or semi finals.

I've not been keeping a list of who's done EJC times and who hasn't but from what I've seen, holding morning finals and evening heats has greatly damaged the quality and size of the EJC team that will ultimately be selected (assuming the selection policy is followed to the letter). Some swimmers have done selection times in the heats but not followed that up in finals swims taking place at 8 in the morning. One of the country's very best juniors is currently sitting in this boat and well we wait to see whether he/she will make the team. Other swimmers have gone very close to the selection times in heats or finals who I think would most definitely have done them had the finals been in the evening.

One hopes that the real quality swimmers will still make it through but I sense that quite a big proportion of the EJC team will be freestyle only relay only members.

[hailstone]

Ellen Gandy is rummored to be off to OZ in the summer

[Linny]

Ellen Gandy is rummored to be off to OZ in the summerShe'll still be British. :confused:

One of the country's very best juniors is currently sitting in this boat and well we wait to see whether he/she will make the team.Phew!

[wendy]

She'll still be British. :confused:

Phew!

Of course she is she is only going for a couple of years while her Dad works out there.... i think!

[Pink Paraffin]

However, times in the semi for the juniors take precedence over times in the junior final, so an EJC selection time in the semis will be selected ahead of a faster EJC selection time in the junior final. Likewise if a junior makes the senior final, they HAVE to swim it (or pull out of the whole event) and times in the senior final will be prioritised over times recorded in the semis or the junior final.

Although this was announced as the case at the Technical Meeting which you and I attended Mr 4, this was later 'clarified'. If you read the selection criteria for the EJC's, ONLY senior finals have a priority and therefore the Junior Finals AND the semi finals have parity in selection...

Therefore, the interestingly constructed meet conditions did indeed penalise fast heat swimming for the Juniors, giving such athletes the outside lane and 24 hours less scenario that you mention

Indeed for EYOF selection, this was even more frustrating, as effectively the 'statement' allows selection to take place from heats, Junior finals, semi finals, Senior finals - perhaps even time trials!!

I look forward to seeing these teams...

[hailstone]

When will the team EJC lists be up? Can anybody suggest a hotel within walking distance to pool or on public transport system.Thanks

[speedoqueen]

See accomodation section of the official website:

http://www.europeanjuniorsantwerp2007.be/

The Crowne Plaza is the nicest and closest (6 or 7 minute walk which doesn't involve crossing any main roads!) but is likely to be full already.