Britain & the Euro

[swimusa]

***I am sorry Lane 4 for not discussing swimming in this post***

I, in my last paper as an undergrad, have to write a 15 page paper for my Economics of the EU class dealing in some way with the euro currency. I chose to do Britain's reservation from joining the euro, and the possibilites of your country to do so in the future. Now I know PM Blair will hold a referendum on the topic before Britain will join. But what I want to know, as average and above average Britons, what your feelings are about dropping the pound for the euro. If I did this right there should be a poll attached. If you could just click, yes, no, or maybe, and then reply with a brief statement as to why. Your anonymity will be safeguarded if you like, and if you do not want to post your thoughts publicly on this thread, you can send me a private message sharing your thoughts/concerns/reservations. Your names will not be used in the paper. I am just basically looking for quotes and some polling numbers. Thank you.

[Swim21]

Get a life!!

[Pete]

This is a site for those interested in swimming. A UK chatroom is your best bet.:rocket: :rocket: :rocket: :rocket:

[Michael]

Originally posted by swimusa
***I am sorry Lane 4 for not discussing swimming in this post***


It seems you under estimated the number of people this would annoy!!!! :rocket:

I would stop now before the hole you're digging for yourself gets so big that you can't reach the keyboard!!! :devil:

...Although, for what it matters I think that our currency is part of our national idendty and it would be a disaster if we lost it!!!

[Swim21]

I don't really want to validate this thread with my presence (oopps I already did), but who moderates this drivel?

[Swim21]

Originally posted by swimusa
I am now showing my anger and frustration at a stereotypical group of people who normally have polite manners, but alas, tell me to get a life. Why are you opposed to the Euro?


I don't think he quite liked my comments!!

[Chris]

Originally posted by Swim21


I don't think he quite liked my comments!!

If that was a private message Swim21 you were out of order posting it here .... :rolleyes:

[Swim21]

Unless it was of public interest!!

Number 1 rule of journalism

[swimusa]

Britain, Britain, Britain, Britain. What an enigma. Ever since May began, my view of the stereotypical "tolerant" people has soured severely. I have been mocked rudely, told to get life for doing research on an important paper (where the logical thing is to ask British people their viewpoints), and that this entire website is dedicated to those with an interest in swimming (which I clearly must not have, because I am an American posting my views on swimming on a British swimming website). I ask you a simple question of your views and you show absolut disgust for me doing so, so here is what I think of Britain and its people. (This only developed in the past 48 hours).

Britain is a complete mystery. You want to reap the rewards economically of the European Union, but do not want to reap the rewards politically. That is why you will not join the Euro. You are too proud of yourself and your standing in the world. You pay millions of pounds to support 1 woman's extravgant lifestyle who goes around to various charities to say hello, and make a speech to open Parliament every year. Other than that, the executive of your executive branch has as much power and control over her country as the Wizard of Oz. Yet, you still support her.

You're worried about you national identity? I would be too. Not because you're becoming increasingly apart of a United States of Europe, but because you're increasingly becoming apart of the United States of America. Your prime minister, the only man with real power left in Britain, is a puppet of the U.S. President (which frankly says alot about your country, because George Bush is not a smart man). You have committed more troops and more resources in this effort in Afghanistan, as well as Iraq, than anyother UN or NATO country besides us, and you were not hit by airplanes on the 11th of September. Why? Because of a special friendship created in 1916 when we entered World War I, not to save you, but to prevent the Kaiser's U-boast from sinking and killing Americans. This special friendship didn't even exist from the time of Churchill to the time of Thatcher. This special friendship must only exist between President and prime minister, because I have not seen too much friendship going on over here. (No, I am not demanding you all be my friend. I am asking for some respect, which some of you have never afforded me).

In your former colony of Zimbabwe, a man steals the election. You voice your contempt, but only slap his wrists (through an organization of former colonies). While this is a signal internationally, he is still in office, and the opposition is being killed. You run around this world talking the talk, but what about walking the walk? When push comes to shove, the aura of former world hegemon dims quickly.

And let me tell you of British athletics in general. I ask you to find another American who can tell you about Alison Sheppard, Karen Pickering, Susan Rolph, Matthew Kidd, Mark Foster, James Hickman...You know who we know over here. Linford Chrisitie, Virgina Wade, and Tim Henman (and that is not even an 8th of our population who could tell you). Yet you act as if British swimming is rising like a phoenix to overtake the threshold held by Australia and the United States. HA! Not when you cannot get a girl to consistently go under 1:09 in the 100 Breast, or 4:50 in the 400 IM.

A friend of mine once told me "Britain is a third world country who thinks they are first world". I rejected that. You aren't third world. You're problem is that you are the sixth wealthiest country yet you walk and act and talk like you're the second. He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

[Julia]

WOW !! Bedtime reading or what.:confused:

[BigFish]

Originally posted by swimusa
You want to reap the rewards economically of the European Union, but do not want to reap the rewards politically.

What rewards? Economically the UK is doing better than the EU. Politically, we have about as much in common with the rest of Europe (predominately Socialist) as Russia has with the US. There are simply too many differences for a United States of Europe to work effectively. And what happens when a large group of people becomes disillusioned with the ruling elite? You should be able to tell us all about that! Europe has a fantastic history of civil war and the more conventional types, are we supposed to think that this is a thing of the past now we're in the 21st century. Sure it is.


Originally posted by swimusa
You are too proud of yourself and your standing in the world.

Maybe we are proud of ourselves. I'm lead to believe the US is a proud nation to, yet you really haven't achieved an awful lot with your interfering recently have you (as a nation I mean, not you individually)? You just seem to attract everyone's ridicule and disgust no matter what you do. I guess that's what Britain did in its colonial past!

Originally posted by swimusa
You pay millions of pounds to support 1 woman's extravgant lifestyle.

That's the way we like it. We get a head of state who is totally detatched from day to day politics. A completely independent figure who everyone can love because they don't need to agree with her decisions, etc. Rather than having executive decisions made by someone who many believe to be a fool (though not me personally, I should add)!

Originally posted by swimusa
Your prime minister, the only man with real power left in Britain, is a puppet of the U.S. President (which frankly says alot about your country, because George Bush is not a smart man).

Well you said it! I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to imply about your own country there.

Originally posted by swimusa
and you were not hit by airplanes on the 11th of September.

Your first experience of terrorism was it? I was actually supposed to be shopping in Manchester the day the IRA bombed it. Fortunately, I stayed away and listened to the explosion instead. I'm afraid I restrained myself from invading Ireland.

Originally posted by swimusa
In your former colony of Zimbabwe, a man steals the election. You voice your contempt, but only slap his wrists

We should have sent in the Marines then? Key word: 'Former'. We no longer have a colonial empire remember. Besides, read the history books. You interfere in a 3rd world country and you prolong its status as a 3rd world country, or at best, drag it into a world it isn't mature enough to cope with only to watch it fall over later. Let it sort things out on its own, let them learn their own lessons.

Originally posted by swimusa
I ask you to find another American who can tell you about Alison Sheppard, ...

Find another Brit and you'll be doing pretty good.

Let's get back to the swimming can we!

[swimusa]

What rewards? Economically the UK is doing better than the EU.

Can Britain export goods to France cheaper than the United States? Yes. Why? Because you are in a Common market, where inorder to be a member, you cannot levy trade barriers amongst members, while levying tariffs on non-members consistent to member nations. You can also purchase goods from France cheaper than Americans can. Now I don't know about you, but not having to pay an import tax on a Mercedes Benz sounds pretty nice.

Politically, we have about as much in common with the rest of Europe (predominately Socialist) as Russia has with the US. There are simply too many differences for a United States of Europe to work effectively.

You really need to study the United States some more. The 50 American states are widely different, and have different viewpoints. Why do you think we had a sharp division in the 2000 election? Rhode Islanders (Rhode Island, near Massachusetts for the geographically challenged) do not share the same ideas as Texans. Rhode Islanders believe in the woman's right to choose an abortion, do not believe in Capital punishment (death penalty), and more protections to workers rights. Texans believe in that abortion is murder, capital punishment is deterrence, and less control over businesses. Vastly divergent, yet heaven forbid they are in the same nation. There are common threads in Europe. Your education system restricts the cost of tuition to universities, your health coverage is more inclusive, and you are against the death penalty. Hmmm.


And what happens when a large group of people becomes disillusioned with the ruling elite? You should be able to tell us all about that!

Your country is ruled by a monarch, and a group of lords who are not elected, but are there because they are friends of the monarch and are elite. Yet, we are the disillusioned ones? The Bush and Kennedy political dynasties will never come close to that of your Lords.

Maybe we are proud of ourselves. I'm lead to believe the US is a proud nation to, yet you really haven't achieved an awful lot with your interfering recently have you (as a nation I mean, not you individually)? You just seem to attract everyone's ridicule and disgust no matter what you do. I guess that's what Britain did in its colonial past!

We're not the only one fighting in Afghanistan now are we.

A completely independent figure who everyone can love because they don't need to agree with her decisions, etc. Rather than having executive decisions made by someone who many believe to be a fool (though not me personally, I should add)!

Our executive branc is set up to keep our judicial and legislative branches from getting too powerful. Your legislative branch (Parliament) is too powerful. Your judges are appointed by the Queen yes, but at the suggestion of the Prime Minister. Infact, every decision made by the Queen politically, including her speech to open Parliament, have gone through the Prime Minister first. (Your Prime Minister is our equivalent to the Speaker of the House of Representatives) What is the point and having someone oversee the Legislative branch (their purpose for being there) if you take away all their power of oversight? Some view it as a waste of money.

Your first experience of terrorism was it? I was actually supposed to be shopping in Manchester the day the IRA bombed it. Fortunately, I stayed away and listened to the explosion instead. I'm afraid I restrained myself from invading Ireland.

1993, New York City, World Trade Center garage, 3 muslim men set off a car bomb killing 193 people.

1995, Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh & Terry Nicholls set off explosives killing hundreds at a federal office building.

1998, Nairobi, Kenya & Kampala, Uganda, the U.S. Embassies were bombed by militants associated with Osama bin Laden.

2000, Port of Aden, Yemen, the U.S.S. Cole is bombed by militants associated with Osama bin Laden.

Besides, read the history books. You interfere in a 3rd world country and you prolong its status as a 3rd world country, or at best, drag it into a world it isn't mature enough to cope with only to watch it fall over later. Let it sort things out on its own, let them learn their own lessons.

Yep, the reason why the third world is the third world is a result of the U.S. setting up an export oriented economy in Africa and Asia (primarily Africa) during the 1800's, in an attempt to extract raw materials, and prohibit the building of factories and such for them to produce the finished product made from these raw materials. Then we went on to produce these raw materials into finished products, and sell them on the world markets, taking 100% of the profits. And then when we went bankrupt, abandoned the idea leaving Africa and Asia screwed because we did not give them any resources by which to reverse this export orientation. Now, we did this, even though we never colonized Africa, nor traded with them until after 1945 (except Liberia), and didn't have a diplomatic mission in all African countries until 1979. I assume this is what they teach you over there in Britain? The reason why the third world is the third world is not the fault of the United States. We provide more aid to foreign countries than any other nation that has ever graced this planet. We get criticized for fixing the mistakes of some European empires.

[Pete]

It is about time you stopped making suppositions about Britain and visited us. We can then put to rest the stereotypical view of Americans as loud, pot-bellied, SLR (with 10 lenses) wielding and calling the Queen's residence in London "Buck House". You will find us a friendly nation who like to enjoy ourselves. You will also find us open in our attitude to our friends from "across the pond". Come over and choose from 100's of beers to watch bowls and snooker by.:idea:

[swimusa]

If you're a friendly nation, why haven't you displayed it here? From my American point of view, you're more cranky than friendly.

[BigFish]

You picked a particularly touchy subject. Most people (I think) are sick and fed up with the whole Euro thing. It may be of particular interest to yourself and a few politicians, but to be honest, the vast majority of people in Britain are just not interested. We do, however, get it stuffed in our face on a regular basis.

As for the spelling thing, it is actually considered bad netiquette to criticise spelling errors on the Internet. If you started pointing out spelling mistakes on usenet the way you have been on here, I assure you the response would have been a thousand times more hostile! The British are particularly sloppy about their language, but would you prefer us to become as protectionist as the French are?

Have a nice day.

[Julia]

Which ever topic I seem to look in on, Swimusa is there criticising the Brits.( thats with a s not a z) I could say a lot in our defence, but I'm not going to. I'm getting bored. Talk swimming please.

[swimusa]

Thank you very much Big Fish for your very honest reply on the Euro situation. That is the sort of thing I am looking for, but none of you are willing to say. As for how Americans view British on the Euro, we see you as unsure of yourselves, when clearly you are not. Why is it so hard to pull answers from you. You'd rather criticize me than speak your mind and answer my question.

And do not talk to me about hostility. I have already been badgered for my American way of spelling. (See Thread: "ASA: Zoe Baker thoughts on the 50 Breaststroke WR" in the General Forum) Obviously when it comes to spelling, you guys are correct 100% of the time, and any non English person is wrong.

[James S]

I am really disappointed with this forum at the moment. The comments before about spelling etc between the brits and swimusa were amusing and taken by all (I think) in the tone they were intended. This has got out of hand.

Chris asked if we wanted an off topic forum and as far as I remember (although I have not checked latest result) the vote came back in favour. So, if someone chooses to post about a topic we feel we do not want to discuss, we choose not to join in the discussion. Its is quite simple I think! If, on the other hand, the replies were in the tongue and cheek manner of earlier posts and were taken wrongly by swimusa then that needs to be pointed out instead of there being a transatlantic bitchy (although I must say somewhat interesting if you like that kind of thing) catfight between members who are among the more regular (and helpful) posters on this site. Hopefully this will settle down and we can get back to discussing the topic which originally drew us all to swimclub. (unless of course you choose to post on the off-topic forum)

Come on guys, lets not sour the tone of this website. Its not worth it.

[Chris]

Thank you James. Sense at last :rolleyes:

I've been pretty disappointed by the personal attacks aimed at swimusa recently (and I have my eye on the account of one person in particular.) To be perfectly honest the level of the conversation has dropped considerably around here. We have the usual people who are willing to partake in sensible discussion - and I thank them for that. We now have a few new individuals who have obviously come here to trouble-make. I'm not surprised, I've seen them on a variety of different forums I frequent.

These people are the kids who hide behind their username and flame/insult anyone they like. I don't like it ... it's not necessary.

I am grateful for swimusa's input into these forums. End of story.

He/She has every right to defend themselves from some of the abuse they have been receiving.

Just because I have exceptional spelling abilities ( ;) ) I would never expect anyone to abuse/berate those whose spelling is not so good. Nor would expect any attack on anyone with learning difficulties, or any other disability/affliction.

Anyone who considers it appropriate to carry out such an attack will be banned without discussion.

I am amazed how these forums have grown this year. We had about 180 members in January 2002, and in less than six months this number has grown to in excess of 300 members.

I thank everyone who contributes to these forums, but will not stand for personal attacks or insulting behaviour - from anyone.

Thank you :cool:

[Bazza]

Hear hear Chris!

This is the most pleasant forum I visit simply because it lacks the type of people you have described - those who make insulting posts or are intentionally antaganostic in trying to start some sort of flame war. Hopefully you will be able to keep these sort of 'contributors' away, and we will all continue to visit the forum due to it being enjoyable and constructive.:)

Like James said, if you are only interested in swimming discussion, why visit the off-topic forum in the first place?:confused:

[swimusa]

You see though, everyone who has posted on this offtopic forum though, are regular posters elsewhere on the website. I don't think anyone came here just to post off topic replies. I merely asked a question to British people, about British people on a medium used by British people. That's all I did, until weel, we on't go into it.

[swimmer]

guys - this isn't going anywhere is it?.......

[Unfit]

ok, well i may as well give my two cents worth (or should that be two pence worth - or then again two cents worth if we're going to euro!)

i really could care less about europe/the euro etc. money is money! and i'm currently living abroad anyway (a scot in england). my uncle made an interesting point though which is something i hadn't thought of before but people of his age might see it that way:

he fought the war so he wouldn't be ruled by another country

and in his eyes getting into the euro etc is just being ruled by Brussles (oops spelling - by the way, i'm probably the crapiest speller here!) as an 80year old man who flew in the war he feels very stronly about this. as a 25year old girl who hardly knows anything about the war it all seems irrelevant.

as for the off topic forum - i'm going to enjoy chatting about non-swimming topics with people who seem to be of a like mind to me and whom i have enjoyed conversing with over the last year or so. i certainly shall be checking the off-topic forum and will be joining in whenever i can!

i'd also like to send a welcome to swimusa. i have several american relations (living in massachusets and LA) and have generally found americans to be loud, over the top and above all fun! i really enjoy hearing your point of view and it's definitely livened things up! keep it coming!

[swimusa]

lol (laugh out loud)