Barnet Copthall Masters Competitions 2007

[Ivor]

Yes - it's that time of the year again.

The entry forms for this year's Barnet Copthall Masters Competitions are available for download via UptheBeavers (http://www.upthebeavers.com).

I hope to see each and every single one of you there.

Distance Meet
Saturday 21st - Sunday 22nd July
Closing Date: 29th June

Sprint Meet
Sunday 9th September
Closing Date: 17th August

1500m Meet
Saturday 24th - Sunday 25th November
Closing Date: 9th November

And as an added bonus this year we're even hoping to publish provisional start lists on the site in advance.

Excited? What do you mean 'no'!

[Spidey]

Looks as if this is an order, perhaps I will do the 200m Fly - as if!!

[Big Nev]

If you can put us Northern Lads up for £15 a night and guarantee gravy, I may consider it.

Only joking..don't like the beer down south.

[Stevie_k]

Distance and sprint looks good. Count me in.

You can whistle for the 1500 tho :aarrgghh:

[Spidey]

Distance and sprint looks good. Count me in.

You can whistle for the 1500 tho :aarrgghh:

You do get a whistle still with 50 to go, so will you be doing it Stevie?

[Stevie_k]

The first 2 are a cert. But i dont think ill do the 1500.

I feel ill when i do a fast 400, it cant end fast enough for me. A competetive 1500 sounds grueling and horrable.

But please dont challenge me. My ego makes me agree to silly things.

Im not sure that entry times will have a heat high enough to accomodate me anyway. Youll be wishing you hadnt dared me when your stuck there twiddling your thumbs for an age waiting for me to finish. If i do go, bring a gameboy or something.

[Spidey]

The first 2 are a cert. But i dont think ill do the 1500.

I feel ill when i do a fast 400, it cant end fast enough for me. A competetive 1500 sounds grueling and horrable.

But please dont challenge me. My ego makes me agree to silly things.

Im not sure that entry times will have a heat high enough to accomodate me anyway. Youll be wishing you hadnt dared me when your stuck there twiddling your thumbs for an age waiting for me to finish. If i do go, bring a gameboy or something.

Stevie - I have seen some extra-ordinary swims at the Barnet 1500m event, Legs only, I/M - yes an I/M 375m of each stroke, so I am sure that you will have a good time, so I dare you to enter.

[taxi service]

Stevie - I have seen some extra-ordinary swims at the Barnet 1500m event, Legs only, I/M - yes an I/M 475m of each stroke, so I am sure that you will have a good time, so I dare you to enter.

Would have thought 375m of each stroke would work better...

[Stevie_k]

I dare you to enter.

Somehow i knew that was coming.

It seems a bit out my depth to consider seeing as ive not even had the cahoonas to enter anything over 100m so far.

You see its all about juggling the fast twitch fibres with the slow twitch.

Very tricky to do, and im not sure ill have enough myglobin in my muscle cells to absorn enough oxygen by then.

If there is a heat that will be between 25 and 27 minutes i will be tempted, but if they have to fish me out like a drowned rat when ive be ressused, i will be looking for you spidey :mad:

I shall give it much thought, with a view to entering. (which means yes ok)

[Ivor]

If there is a heat that will be between 25 and 27 minutes i will be tempted

Last year the slowest male time was 35:37.11 so you should be fine. It's run as a mixed event and many people come in around the 25 minute mark.

See you there.

[Stevie_k]

Rats, ill have to think of another excuse now!

OK OK....ill be there!

[Bully]

I'm available them dates if you need a starter, or better still assistant ref?

[Juicy Lucy]

I'm available them dates if you need a starter, or better still assistant ref?

Why am I groaning?

I don't fancy finishing a 1500 only to find that I was DQ'd at the start.

Mind you, I never saw my splits after the last 1500 at Barnet so it won't be a first.

JL

[Spidey]

Last year the slowest male time was 35:37.11 so you should be fine. It's run as a mixed event and many people come in around the 25 minute mark.

See you there.

Come in from where - the changing rooms? Out of the cold?

[Juicy Lucy]

Thanks for PMing my 1500 splits Ivor.

Excellent service from you - Lousy splits from me.

JL

[Spidey]

I'm available them dates if you need a starter, or better still assistant ref?

Just found an excuse for Stevie not to go.

[adamlelean]

Last year the slowest male time was 35:37.11 so you should be fine. It's run as a mixed event and many people come in around the 25 minute mark.

See you there.

With Stevie K swimming - never having swum a 1500 before does that mean we'll see you there too Ivor getting wet that is not just with a stopwatch in your hand.
If you let us know which date your swimming Ivor I could ensure there are other qualified timekeepers participating too and I'm sure one of us would be able to time your lane.

[Ivor]

Please note that the deadline for distance meet entries has been extended until Friday 6th July because of the postal strike.

Entry forms can still be found on UptheBeavers.com (http://www.upthebeavers.com)

That is all.

Carry on.

[Stevie_k]

Thanks Ivor.

Im in, 400 and 100 free and 100 back.

:)

[Spidey]

Please note that the deadline for distance meet entries has been extended until Friday 6th July because of the postal strike. Entry forms can still be found on UptheBeavers.com (http://www.upthebeavers.com) That is all. Carry on.

Ivor - please do not post such teasing links to this web site, I am under 18 and can not enter your site.

[goslow]

Ivor that has to be one of the best web sites ive seen in ages. Laughed my socks of!

[Ivor]

Bounding head first into the 21st century, the Beavers have taken the quite unprecedented step of publishing draft psyche sheets for the Distance Meet.

This enthralling example of modern literature can be downloaded from the competitions section of www.UptheBeavers.com

Please try and contain your excitement.

I hope to see each and every one of you there.

(I'll be the circus dwarf with the big beard)

[Stevie_k]

Ivor I was the bloke who turned up 20 minutes late to put in his entry card for the 400.

I couldnt find the place. I had to go past it and come back on myself cos of the enfield m25 turnoff was shut. I got on the wrong road and couldnt get off etc etc.

I would have been unbelievable gutted if id not been allowed to race.

I enjoyed it, it was a very nice venue i thought.

ps i missed your avatar in swimclubs absence, always makes me laugh.

Oh and by the way, nice seeing you there Adam Lelean, thanks for the tips.

[Dunc]

Ivor I was the bloke who turned up 20 minutes late to put in his entry card for the 400.

I couldnt find the place. I had to go past it and come back on myself cos of the enfield m25 turnoff was shut. I got on the wrong road and couldnt get off etc etc.


Missed your 400m swim though I wanted to see it, and you, in non panic mode (as in 50m & 100m).
All the better to give you stroke counselling.

Then you disappeared off into the wilds of the Thames estuary (probably via Enfield).
I believe that the 20' you were late made you the second worst time-keeper of the day. First prize going to Joe 'the pool inspector' Twynam.

And yes I am back from the cold thanks to Chris's magnanimity and forgiveness re JL. Fair play Chris.

Mind you all that abstention made me more bullish than Bully.

[Spidey]

Ivor I was the bloke who turned up 20 minutes late to put in his entry card for the 400..

Stevie - late for an event - I thought it was just late to the starting blocks - well done on breaking the 6 minutes.

[Stevie_k]

Dunc, great to have you posting again mate, really missed your input.

Because i was late, i was told id be in the first heat for the 400. Seeing as i came last in every age group apart from 70/74 and 30/34 somehow i think i was destined for the first heat anyway.

I was entered in 2 more events but i got so bored i went home. I knew id regret going home and now i do. But i didnt know anybody at all and it was hours and hours between events. Next time ill bring a book.

I did have a nose about to see if i could see you.

Im always really jelous of people there with their clubs. I must look a right billy no mates.

I think i will do the guildford and Barnet sprints soon. See you there if you go to those ones.

[Stevie_k]

well done on breaking the 6 minutes.

I prefer the term "crushing" more.

For anyone who doesnt know i was taking bets on whether id break 6.

6:19 was my training pb (albeit i hadnt tried to break it for months).

5:50.89 the result.

Next time im going to try improving a lot's method, and go for it....glory or boffesville????

[Spidey]

I don't suppose it was filmed? Not for evidence but for posperity.

[Dunc]

Dunc, great to have you posting again mate, really missed your input.

Because i was late, i was told id be in the first heat for the 400. Seeing as i came last in every age group apart from 70/74 and 30/34 somehow i think i was destined for the first heat anyway.

I was entered in 2 more events but i got so bored i went home. I knew id regret going home and now i do. But i didnt know anybody at all and it was hours and hours between events. Next time ill bring a book.

I did have a nose about to see if i could see you.

Im always really jelous of people there with their clubs. I must look a right billy no mates.

I think i will do the guildford and Barnet sprints soon. See you there if you go to those ones.

Thanks for the encouragement.

And I'll do both meets, though the SERs are fraught.
Currently trying to organise a warm-up / swim down in the diving pit (the teaching pool is very shallow) with Geoff Stokes).
It's a shame, lots of meets are let down by lack of facilities - often because the additional cost makes the meet unprofitable.
It should be lumped in.

Re 'Billy No Mates', you could always join a super-club (that'll get JL going, he's not in favour) such as Spencer, thay attend more meets than any other club, plus you might get the odd relay.

[Stevie_k]

I dont know where spencer are. I suppose the problem is, wherever i join im not going to train there anyway. I have made 2 apearences at thurrock masters in the last 4 months.

I could join Romford, but when i turn up to a meet, they will still wonder who the hell i am.

There was word of the guy starting a masters team where i swim now which is just a morning swimfit club. I hope so, that would be excellent.

I am far less worried about coaching now than i used to be.

I think the penny is starting to drop, i just need to build my endurance and fitness up.

[Juicy Lucy]

I dont know where spencer are. I suppose the problem is, wherever i join im not going to train there anyway.

I rest my case, Dunc!

[Stevie_k]

That is unless you tell me there are fit women there.

You said that about romford didnt you JL, perhaps i could put in a token apearence.

Seriously Dunc, do you know if Romford do have much of a turnout to events. I could train there now and again, and my year is nearly up at thurrock.

Im so lonely, i crave the company.

[adamlelean]

That is unless you tell me there are fit women there.

You said that about romford didnt you JL, perhaps i could put in a token apearence.

Seriously Dunc, do you know if Romford do have much of a turnout to events. I could train there now and again, and my year is nearly up at thurrock.

Im so lonely, i crave the company.
Romford have a considerably better turnout than Thurrock. Particularly in the london area. Hopefully Thurrock will have a reasonable turnout at the East Region gala ( 2 weeks before the nationals)

[Prof]

Stevie,

Lots of us (ex)Thurrock (or as we pronounced it when I were a lass ffurrock) swimmers compete at Masters events-its just that we've all moved out of Essex!

Christina

[Knowley]

Got my entry cards yesterday - thanks
Are the 'psyche' sheets going to be available for the sprint meet soon?

[Knowley]

Are the 'psyche' sheets going to be available for the sprint meet soon? Ignore that they are up :read:
http://www.eyepi.co.uk/masters/dloads/entry/sprint_psyche.pdf

[Stevie_k]

Barnet was wicked today, i really enjoy swimming here.

I suppose i would, every race ive had here has felt a triumph.

I was very happy with my 400 here the other week, and today i did convincing PB's in every race.

Also found the romford massive to talk to :) also my mate JL came to watch which was great plus dunc and nvf and adamlelean to talk to :thumb:

Had a leapors day off today.

I slashed 2 seconds exactly off my fly time. I had to check i was in the right lane when my time came up.

My worst time was half sec off my 100, last race of the day and i was feeling a bit beaten up by that point.

Im battered, will sleep well tonight.

next stop...guildford.

[Stevie_k]

Also mark fost was there knocking in a liesurly 22.5 for 100 free.

I have to admit i was quite taken aback by it.

First top class swimmer ive seen, i was expecting to be impressed but not expecting to be amazed.

The distance he got off the dive was absolutely incredible, had to rub my eyes.

[GettingFaster]

Also mark fost was there knocking in a liesurly 22.5 for 100 free.

I have to admit i was quite taken aback by it.

First top class swimmer ive seen, i was expecting to be impressed but not expecting to be amazed.

The distance he got off the dive was absolutely incredible, had to rub my eyes.

I would also have liked to see THAT swim, but perhaps a 50 at 22.5 would also have been very impressive... ;)

What club does he swim under when doing wrinkly meets?

[Breaststrokemum]

Also mark fost was there knocking in a liesurly 22.5 for 100 free.

I have to admit i was quite taken aback by it.

First top class swimmer ive seen, i was expecting to be impressed but not expecting to be amazed.

The distance he got off the dive was absolutely incredible, had to rub my eyes.

I missed a gawp at that body?!

BM

I'd have offered to timekeep had I known!

[SPF-100]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

Looking at the 'psyche' sheets the amount of times that are blatently made up most 9 out of 10 times that you see a time which ends in .00 are made up and in heat 4 of the mens 100 breast,

1 Thomas Morrow 51 City of Milton Keynes 1:22.00
2 Colin Mayes 52 Luton 1:21.00
3 Stuart Galvin 40 Guildford City 1:20.00
4 Chris Bumby 26 Camden Swiss Cottage S.C. 1:19.00
5 Kevin Lief 40 Barnet Copthall 1:20.00
6 Stephen Lue 23 Out to Swim 1:20.00
7 Christopher Morgan 35 Clissold 1:22.00
8 Adam Lelean 45 Diss Otters 1:23.00

I bet every single time in this heat is made up.

It cant be a coincidence that every time in the same heat ends in the same way, .00

Also swimclubs Adam Lelean is one of the people in the heat...

So sorry if all you masters swimmers hat me but its the truth..

[Knowley]

I think Mark was swimming for Chelsea and Kensington; well that was the relay team he swam for...

[Knowley]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

Looking at the 'psyche' sheets the amount of times that are blatently made up most 9 out of 10 times that you see a time which ends in .00 are made up and in heat 4 of the mens 100 breast,


I think you'll find that people are putting in estimates so they swim in a heat relative to what they think their current performance is... I know on my return to swimming after 12 years I was not going to put my old PBs down on entry forms because they were out of date but now I have established a more recent set of times I don't need to put estimates down.

[SPF-100]

I know on my return to swimming after 12 years I was not going to put my old PBs down on entry forms because they were out of date but now I have established a more recent set of times I don't need to put estimates down.

Still a bit of a coincidence that they've all just taken 12 years out of swimming.

[Knowley]

Try not to be so narrow minded, maybe they are new to competative swimming - as Steve has already demonstrated with his times tumbling from a 35 down to a 30.. there could be lots of reasons why people are putting estimates down?

[NotVeryFast]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

I bet every single time in this heat is made up.
Of course they're all made up, you're supposed to enter your best estimate of the time you'll swim on the day, which can depend on many factors.

E.g. I entered 34.80 for my 50 breast, a made up time. My PB is 34.39, but I haven't done much breast training lately, so thought I'd be a bit away from my best. I swam 34.68, so my estimate was more accurate than if I'd entered my PB.

Why does this make masters swimming a joke? It's not as if the entry times matter other than getting you into a heat with other people who will swim similar times to you on the day.

[Breaststrokemum]

Of course they're all made up, you're supposed to enter your best estimate of the time you'll swim on the day, which can depend on many factors.

E.g. I entered 34.80 for my 50 breast, a made up time. My PB is 34.39, but I haven't done much breast training lately, so thought I'd be a bit away from my best. I swam 34.68, so my estimate was more accurate than if I'd entered my PB.

Why does this make masters swimming a joke? It's not as if the entry times matter other than getting you into a heat with other people who will swim similar times to you on the day.

Exactly!

Certainly makes much more sense than young swimmers (or their parents) who enter 'PBs' more than a year old and look and surely feel ridiculous in their heats.

BM

[Stevie_k]

I like to put my entry times down accurately because i like the competition to drag me along.

I dont like being beaten coming down the stretch by anyone.

Incidentally i felt like thats where i lost out in my 100 time a bit today. I took it out fast on the 50, in the lead i believe. I was in lane 7 so when i turned for home i was only looking at the swimmer in lane 8 who was behind me. The mad dash for the line happened on my non breathing side and i was unaware of it and i believe a few of them got me.

Rats!!!

[Ivor]

I bet every single time in this heat is made up.

Back when I was a junior swimmer, before the Boer War, we were always taught to estimate (/make up) all our entry times for every event with the exception of the nationals or whatever else was our top swim of the year. That was the only time we were meant to put down our PB.

This is a rule I have stuck to in masters too.

Sadly I wasn't able to make it to my beloved Sprint Meet, but I understand the results are on the way.

Foster was indeed swimming the first leg of the Chelsea and Kensington relay. He set a new masters world record and also a new all comers pool record too. Well done Mark.

[kookiegal]

Mark Fosters bod.....and there I was convincing myself that I had done the right thing by not attending Barnet sprints due to fatigue from Slovenia....... would have dug deep to have found some energy to attend had I realised! life can be soooo cruel

[Big Nev]

I think you'll find that people are putting in estimates so they swim in a heat relative to what they think their current performance is... I know on my return to swimming after 12 years I was not going to put my old PBs down on entry forms because they were out of date but now I have established a more recent set of times I don't need to put estimates down.

Totally agree with that Knowley. The only time that I don't round the figure up or down is when I want to be in the next lane to my main competitor, Graham Pearson in 100m breaststroke. Then we put times down to 100's of a second to make a bit of a race of it.

SPF100 must be very naive if he/she thinks Masters Swimming is a joke. Maybe He/she (hiding under psuedonym) needs to go to a Masters Meet and see how competitive it is.

[Juicy Lucy]

Mark Fosters bod.....and there I was convincing myself that I had done the right thing by not attending Barnet sprints due to fatigue from Slovenia....... would have dug deep to have found some energy to attend had I realised! life can be soooo cruel

I was there too. You could have drooled over me!

[Stevie_k]

Oh dear JL, thats just typical of you.

All these serious topics to discuss like how good i was, fosters world record, the ethics of rounding up entry times.

And your contribution is once again shameless flirting!

You should be ashamed!

[kookiegal]

but fun...........Sorry JL didnt know you'd be there as well. Only so much of a good thing one can take at my age, also weather half decent didnt want to spend time in a pool.
no doubt see you soon tho

[Leprechaun]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

Looking at the 'psyche' sheets the amount of times that are blatently made up I bet every single time in this heat is made up.

It cant be a coincidence that every time in the same heat ends in the same way, .00

Also swimclubs Adam Lelean is one of the people in the heat...

So sorry if all you masters swimmers hat me but its the truth..

We dont hate you, but I am worried you screwed up a backstroke turn and hit your head on something!

Whats the big deal? If I wanted to scare a crap field I might put my best time to nearest 100th, but nowadays no-one would be that scared of my times. In any case estimating based on current form, training and so on seems far more sensible. I doubt my 50 free time is quite what it used to be since wot like I became a distance freestlyer!

Seems a pointless post. As Big Nev says - come along and decide for yourself whether it is competitive? If it wasnt competitive what would happen - would we all be taking it in turns to win a medal so no-one got left out?

[emt1103]

Still a bit of a coincidence that they've all just taken 12 years out of swimming.

I swam three events yesterday - only my second competition this year, and the second I've done since 1977. I only had a PB for one event, and had to estimate the other two based on a number of relevant factors. Still, I rounded my estimates to 0.5 not .00, and my PB was rounded up from 0.78 to 0.8.

I knocked 1 sec of my PB and was within 2 secs of the estimated 100m time and 1 sec of the 50m time - so my estimates were pretty realistic!

I spoke to a few "girls" in my events who were in similar predicaments - i.e. no significant track record to base entry times on, and so they had used best estimates.

Granted, more seasoned/regular competitors may have a bank of PBs to draw on, but with competitions sometimes being few and far between for Masters, it surely makes sense to take account of current form/fitness/aches and pains....... In my case, my last competitive swim was in April, and a lot can happen in 5 months. Younger swimmers can be competing every week and should have a pretty good idea how close they are to meeting/exceeding their PBs at any time in the swimming calendar (at least that's how I remember it back in the '70s).

I hate to say it, but we are all getting older and there will surely come a point when we can't match our current PBs any longer. Can't see any point in entering a time you know you can't hit any more. Far better to put down a time that you think is realistic, and hopefully you'll get a better race out of it.

Anyway, three events, three medals, three PBs - and Mark Foster - fantastic event for me. Thanks to all at BC for a great day.

:wave:

[Juicy Lucy]

Of course they're all made up, you're supposed to enter your best estimate of the time you'll swim on the day, ...

I've never been told I'm supposed to enter the best estimate of the time I'm expecting to swim on the day.

I've just posted my Nationals entry form and in all three events I've entered a time at least a minute slower than I expect to do. I've always thought it was a 'free-for-all' when submitting times. While there is no rule concerning entry times I will always enter a much slower time than my best. (And if such a rule is introduced, I shall ignore it).

JL

[Stevie_k]

JL, your pot stirring is as bad as your flirting.

You do ammuse me ;)

[Dunc]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

Looking at the 'psyche' sheets the amount of times that are blatently made up most 9 out of 10 times that you see a time which ends in .00 are made up and in heat 4 of the mens 100 breast,

I bet every single time in this heat is made up.

It cant be a coincidence that every time in the same heat ends in the same way, .00
So sorry if all you masters swimmers hat me but its the truth..

We don't hate (or even hat) you, we love you.
How about putting your money where your mouth is?
I suggest you put up some prize money (Say £50) for a specific meet (at Barnet?) and the person (or persons) getting nearest their entry time picks up the cash.


Foz went 22.22 on the electronic scoreboard, as stated he was swimming for Kensington and Chelsea, but he said he was realy swimming with and for fans of Chelsea football club. Must'a been for charidy.

Mike "D'Artagnan" Fibbens was also there; he wasn't swimming though, as he'd had a new beard and moustache set recently grafted on.

Well done on your swims Stevie, but don't breath so often.

[Juicy Lucy]

How about putting your money where your mouth is?
I suggest you put up some prize money (Say £50) for a specific meet (at Barnet?) and the person (or persons) getting nearest their entry time picks up the cash.



I like the sound of this! The place would be packed out though.

[Leprechaun]

I like the sound of this! The place would be packed out though.

I think its a great idea.
Anyone doing the Guildford (oops sorry SER) Masters just send me a tenner(twenty seeing as we are the filthy rich South east then) with your time and nominated event on it and I will act as honest broker....

[Juicy Lucy]

I think its a great idea.
Anyone doing the Guildford (oops sorry SER) Masters just send me a tenner(twenty seeing as we are the filthy rich South east then) with your time and nominated event on it and I will act as honest broker....

This idea from Dunc is getting better by the minute. Not sure about you collecting the money, Leppy. I envisage you travelling back to the Emerald Isle with your pockets full of cash while idiots at the Guildford meet are trying to win the missing prize.

I think if people who entered meets were willing to pay, say a tenner, on top of their entries, that accumulated prize money could go into a pot and be awarded to the person who got nearest their entry time during the meet.

The eventual prize would be quite substantial and anyone of any age could win it, not just the fastest swimmers in the youngest age group. Those not wishing to take part in winning the money need not pay the initial £10 premium.

I'd certainly enter more meets if this procedure was followed.

JL

[adamlelean]

All the masters will probably hate me for this but masters swimming is a joke!

Looking at the 'psyche' sheets the amount of times that are blatently made up most 9 out of 10 times that you see a time which ends in .00 are made up and in heat 4 of the mens 100 breast,

1 Thomas Morrow 51 City of Milton Keynes 1:22.00
2 Colin Mayes 52 Luton 1:21.00
3 Stuart Galvin 40 Guildford City 1:20.00
4 Chris Bumby 26 Camden Swiss Cottage S.C. 1:19.00
5 Kevin Lief 40 Barnet Copthall 1:20.00
6 Stephen Lue 23 Out to Swim 1:20.00
7 Christopher Morgan 35 Clissold 1:22.00
8 Adam Lelean 45 Diss Otters 1:23.00

I bet every single time in this heat is made up.

It cant be a coincidence that every time in the same heat ends in the same way, .00

Also swimclubs Adam Lelean is one of the people in the heat...

So sorry if all you masters swimmers hat me but its the truth..
Depends on what you mean by a made up time.
If you want my PB time then that's a 1:19.2 I think, but it was one race on one day about16 years ago. This weekend I swam 5 swims in one day. At barnet distance meet I swam a high 1:14 for the 100 fly ( last event of the day) and a low 1:23 for 100 Breast. When I filled in my entry form I couldn't be bothered to look up exactly the time I swam, I just entered a time I thought would be achievable on the day. As it turned out I was around 2 seconds slower than most of my 100m entry times and around a second slower on the 50.
My guess is that I've been swimming as a master since before SPF-100 was born, and I'm pleased I'm still swimming. I'm even more pleased I'm still doing PB's.

[animal0800]

Depends on what you mean by a made up time.
If you want my PB time then that's a 1:19.2 I think, but it was one race on one day about16 years ago. This weekend I swam 5 swims in one day. At barnet distance meet I swam a high 1:14 for the 100 fly ( last event of the day) and a low 1:23 for 100 Breast. When I filled in my entry form I couldn't be bothered to look up exactly the time I swam, I just entered a time I thought would be achievable on the day. As it turned out I was around 2 seconds slower than most of my 100m entry times and around a second slower on the 50.
My guess is that I've been swimming as a master since before SPF-100 was born, and I'm pleased I'm still swimming. I'm even more pleased I'm still doing PB's.

Good for you Adam - I'm doing my first gala in around 25 years next weekend, i'm only doing 50's and I know i'm going to be a good 2 to 3 seconds down on my PB's so i'm entering a time that I think I will get near (I hope).

I guess I need a new type of PB (Maybe call it an MB) - Masters Best - what do other people use ?

[adamlelean]

I guess I need a new type of PB (Maybe call it an MB) - Masters Best - what do other people use ?
I only have masters swims to compare against, I never did compete as a youngster. Although at local galas I still do compete in the 17 and over category. I record all swims, good and bad.

As long as you don't worry too much about the old times I don't think it matters. At National level they did ask for your best time over the last 12 months, they now ask for a time you think you will achieve.
If I swim the same events at a competition as I swam the previous year I enter the times I swam at that competition in the previous year. That way it's easy for me to tell if I've improved on last years times.

Many "good" swimmers give up when they try to swim as masters. They swim twice a week, in a good week, rather than 7 times a week they swam at their peak. They weigh an extra 2 stone ( and it's not muscle). When they were at their peak if they'd stopped swimming for 3 months they would be happy with a swim 2 seconds off their PB. But having not swum competitively for 10 or 20 years they now wonder why they are not doing the times they use to.

Enter the times you expect to swim. For at least the first couple of years that will be your masters PB, after that you won't need to ask anyway.

[RaoulD]

I started again when I took up Masters swimming. My PBs when I was younger are simply unattainable now. This meant that I had to make up my times initially based upon an assessment of my level of fitness and what I was doing in training. In events which I have swum as a Master, I will usually put in my best time as a Master (it gives me something to aim at) but as the purpose of entering a time is to try and swim with other swimmers around your pace, there is little point in putting in a time that you know is unrealistic.

[GettingFaster]

I think the indignation SPF-100 is expressing is because (s)he doesn't understand what purpose entry times serve. The biggest difference between agegroup and masters meets is that firstly WE DON'T HAVE QUALIFYING TIMES and secondly I don't know of any masters meet that rejects competitors, unless their entry gets in late. (Well except for things like Europeans, and people who go to that level of Masters meets really do take their swimming seriously and probably DO put in their PBs.)

The other thing SPF-100 probably didn't realise is that these 'made-up' times are slower than their actual PBs usually, rather than faster, which is what age-groupers get so fed up about in meets with qualifying times and rejections.

If age-group swimmers just put in made-up times (or should I say when agegroupers put in made-up times)then they are usually faster than their actual times, running meets would be totally farcical (sp?) and the place would be in uproar, but that's just not how us wrinklies do things...

[adamlelean]

If age-group swimmers just put in made-up times (or should I say when agegroupers put in made-up times)then they are usually faster than their actual times, running meets would be totally farcical (sp?) and the place would be in uproar, but that's just not how us wrinklies do things...
Wrinkly, speak for yourself GF - just coz I'm older than you.
SPF-100 would appear to be a 13 year old male from posts he's made.
I would never enter a time faster than my PB, and even at world level I enter a time I think I'm going to achieve. Typically my best long course time for the last 12 months.

[Stevie_k]

SPF youve opened a right can of worms.

I know certain people who would be absolutely delighted to caused such a stir, naming no names.

I bet your gutted you didnt think of it first JL....ops slipped out.

[SPF-100]

Wrinkly, speak for yourself GF - just coz I'm older than you.
SPF-100 would appear to be a 13 year old male from posts he's made.
I would never enter a time faster than my PB, and even at world level I enter a time I think I'm going to achieve. Typically my best long course time for the last 12 months.

18 actually but I always enter my best time this season.

Why can't all these masters enter their seasons best time, although there may be a few exceptions of people who havent competed in this event but when its constantly over half for every event I think it gets a bit silly.

[Leprechaun]

18 actually but I always enter my best time this season.

Why can't all these masters enter their seasons best time, although there may be a few exceptions of people who havent competed in this event but when its constantly over half for every event I think it gets a bit silly.

At 18 you are far too young to be in these murky waters...Is nowhere sacred? You'll be lecturing us about stretching properly, doing proper swim-downs instead of running to the bar when the last hard bit of the session is over.

My seasons best for my only event so far this year is 15:28.04 (hrs/mins/secs). So I had to resort to a mixture of flaky memory and rose-tinted goggles for my guestimates.

Go on young 'un run along for now, but I guarantee your Masters years will be the best of your swimming life!

As for being called silly.......some people in here are habitually far worse than silly so they could take offence!

Grumpy Old Man

[Juicy Lucy]

My seasons best for my only event so far this year is 15:28.04 (hrs/mins/secs).

You've been caught out Leppy! And not before time too.

This guess at your best time is exactly what SPF-100 is complaining about. It can't possibly be a genuine time because there are no hundredths showing after .4 secs.

Well done SPF-100, between us we'll expose these charlatans.

JL

[Leprechaun]

You've been caught out Leppy! And not before time too.

This guess at your best time is exactly what SPF-100 is complaining about. It can't possibly be a genuine time because there are no hundredths showing after .4 secs.

Well done SPF-100, between us we'll expose these charlatans.

JL

The 4 secs was laughing as e-fitz stubbed his toe, as for the hundredths, nothing was moving that quick over there at that stage!

[racheybabes]

18 actually but I always enter my best time this season.

Why can't all these masters enter their seasons best time, although there may be a few exceptions of people who havent competed in this event but when its constantly over half for every event I think it gets a bit silly.

From personal experience - I dont enter my exact time because I dont have a coach or parent to remind me what my PB's are nor do I keep a folder with all my PB's in it.

I lead a busy life and can't be bothered with putting in my exact time - you're gonna be more or less near where you should be if you put an approx. time in anyway.

Can imagine that there are many reasons why people put slower times in - Working long hours, having children.....
I also know that alot of people like to put in a similar times to race each other - something to do with making it competitive in a friendly way or a slower time so they look better - so what, if it makes them feel better about themselves then so be it!

Why does it bother you so much?

Oh by the way - I'm 27 and remember competing as a kid, it's much more fun now I can enter the events that I want to with the times that I want to enter.

:cheers:

[Breaststrokemum]

18 actually but I always enter my best time this season.

Why can't all these masters enter their seasons best time, although there may be a few exceptions of people who havent competed in this event but when its constantly over half for every event I think it gets a bit silly.

Personally, I find it a bit 'sad' that someone so young can really be bothered about something so trivial! So this is why we don't get student demos etc about really important stuff like in the old days?

BM

[Ivor]

Much as I hate to drag things back to what many regard as the point, the results for the competition are now ready to download:

www.UptheBeavers.com

Both entry times and race times are included to allow for a full statistical analysis should you so wish.

[Stevie_k]

I read through your upbeavers site a while ago.

It really made me giggle a lot.

Great site.

Thanks for the link.

[SPF-100]

Personally, I find it a bit 'sad' that someone so young can really be bothered about something so trivial! So this is why we don't get student demos etc about really important stuff like in the old days?

Im just stating facts but as the majority of people on here are masters im in a lose, lose situation.

And as for being called 'sad' I dont really like that either...

It doesnt bother me that the times entered get made up I was just raising a point as I tohugh it was a bit stupid that there was a whole heat of made up times.

[Knowley]

I suggest you put up some prize money (Say £50) for a specific meet (at Barnet?) and the person (or persons) getting nearest their entry time picks up the cash.
I was pretty close to the money on the 50m free - entered 26.24 swam a 26.27 :eek:

[GettingFaster]

Well seeing as you're nearly a pre-wrinkly, SPF-100 (Adam, that's what I look like after being in the water for an hour but if you don't, then feel free not to use this particular term of endearment!) I would love you to come along to a Masters meet and get in and compete just so you can see what we've all been trying to tell you. There are so many different levels of competition, from speed-freaks like Ivor (who even ties his beard up to improve streamlining though the ribbons he ties it up with tend to get caught in his toes) to ancient grannies even older than myself who go along to see if they can beat the other ancient grannies that beat them in the last meet they went to.

Masters competitions really ARE very different from age-group and elite swimming and it would be impossible to try to explain, you'll just have to come along and experience the whole party for yourself, and you'd be genuinely, totally, utterly welcomed.

[Dunc]

I was pretty close to the money on the 50m free - entered 26.24 swam a 26.27 :eek:

I was .01 out on my 50m free so what do you owe me Mr Knowleyall? (though I was way out on my other 3 swims, shh)

SPF, you can't be a wrinkly with that kind of sun protection factor.
Anyway I'm sorry you got beaten up by the forum.
There are many old bruisers on this site, and for God's sake, don't ring a bell or JL will start punching shadows.

Putting in particular entry times often stems from a reason like wanting clear water, competing against a rival, assisting a swim colleague. The only time it should be disparaged is when it's gamesmanship.
The simple way round that is to swim in age banded heats, but that raises its own problems.

Re Foz.
Did anyone notice his change of stroke? It is now very straight arm, he's been working on that for a while now, as he believes it's faster.
His dive was radically different too, he was up into his stroke almost immediately, no real underwater work.
He says he's much faster once he's up (on the surface), we'll let Lean2 argue that.

[NotVeryFast]

I see that the results of the Barnet Sprint Meet have now gone into the Masters Decathlon (http://asaftp.sportcentric.net/sports/masters/decathlon/2007/)

Dunc is looking good to win it; Simon Veale could improve his score a lot if he did a breaststroke race, but his average score per swim so far is a tiny bit lower than Dunc's, and he probably can't quite get enough points from a breaststroke race to close the gap. It would be nice to see him try, though :)

Stevie K is marching up the rankings, now 225th out of 1259. I'm 15th, but I've pretty much maxed out my score for the year, the only direction my position is going to change is downwards as more people get more swims in!

[Knowley]

What is the ADJ Time on the results thingy?

[NotVeryFast]

What is the ADJ Time on the results thingy?
That's the time after correcting for age, so you get a bigger adjustment the older you are. In theory this allows all masters swimmers of all ages to compete on a level playing field.

In practice, I suspect it favours older swimmers, but it's really just a bit of fun to add some extra interest to it all and to encourage people to swim more events. Personally, my aim is to keep beating my previous year's score each year.

[Dunc]

I see that the results of the Barnet Sprint Meet have now gone into the Masters Decathlon (http://asaftp.sportcentric.net/sports/masters/decathlon/2007/)

Dunc is looking good to win it; Simon Veale could improve his score a lot if he did a breaststroke race, but his average score per swim so far is a tiny bit lower than Dunc's, and he probably can't quite get enough points from a breaststroke race to close the gap. It would be nice to see him try, though :)

Stevie K is marching up the rankings, now 225th out of 1259. I'm 15th, but I've pretty much maxed out my score for the year, the only direction my position is going to change is downwards as more people get more swims in!
Still need to do an 800m, as well as a decent 200IM, 200m free,
and 50m fly. There's no room in the calendar.

I think there may be an opportunity for a year end meet with a full programme to pick up those extra points.

[Juicy Lucy]

Has anyone else noticed that a 91 year old and a 93 year old have achieved the best swim in an event?

JL

[Dunc]

Has anyone else noticed that a 91 year old and a 93 year old have achieved the best swim in an event?

JL

The formula breaks down at the top end.

For instance, assuming an elderly lady does a 50m free in 120 seconds (2').
The approximate points awarded at the following ages are :
89 - 97
90 - 115
91 - 145
92 - 177
93 - 233
94 - 325
95 - 499
96 - 914
97 - 2,575

You can see the anomolous behaviour.

[Knowley]

That's the time after correcting for age, so you get a bigger adjustment the older you are. In theory this allows all masters swimmers of all ages to compete on a level playing field.

In practice, I suspect it favours older swimmers, but it's really just a bit of fun to add some extra interest to it all and to encourage people to swim more events. Personally, my aim is to keep beating my previous year's score each year.

Thanks for teh info! For a moment there I thought I'd done much better than I actually had :rolleyes:

[Spidey]

Stevie K is marching up the rankings, now 225th out of 1259. I'm 15th, but I've pretty much maxed out my score for the year, the only direction my position is going to change is downwards as more people get more swims in!

I am 21st and have only swam in 3 meets this year, not bad going eh?