NAG programme changes

[lane4]

Its been mentioned on a couple of other threads already but here's my take on the changes to the National Age Group programme:

Having previously planned to have one morning heats session at 9:00am followed by an afternooon break then finals at 5:00pm, an extra heats session at 1:00 or 1:30pm has now been added to each day with finals pushed back to 6:00pm. Although the National Youth Championships will not be affected, the news displays a serious lack of foresight from the ASA in setting qualifying times completely at odds with those of previous years.

Many coaches and swimmers have realised for some time that a number of the time standards were relatively easy, particularly for the 11 year old group, whereas those swimmers who have moved up into the bottom half of double banded Youth age groups appear to have been severly penalised (well discussed already on this site).

The changes are unlikely to please coaches who have already made decisions for entry submissions based on one morning heats session. It is possible that many swimmers would have entered events differently had they known about the impending alterations. With club funding at stake based on top team points scores the changes could have even further reaching consequences.

In addition, these changes come on top of all the changes that were made to this year's championship format over that of 2001, which itself was a enormous change from years previous. Such constant moving of the goalposts is only likely to cause anger and resentment among those involved at the coal face of the sport; anger and resentment that could be set to grow even further if rumours that are already doing the rounds regarding even further changes to be made to the Age Group and Youth format for 2003 become confirmed in time.


:mad: :(

[Phil Tanner]

Love to hear those rumours, lane4 :D

It seems a pity that having set one session aside for most of the boys' 1500, they didn't go the whole hog and run the fastest heat in the morning as well. A virtual 1500 final plus other finals in the same evening session seems very tough for any in both.
Or is the idea that swimmers/clubs convert some of their 6-50s into a donation to ASA by deleting?

Not related to the changes, but why are two of the toughest girls' events, the 800 free and 200 fly, in the same session with only one event in between?
:eek:

[lane4]

I believe the programme is based on that of the European Youth Olympic Days and the Youth programme based on that of the European Junior Championships.

[swimleeds]

Yeh, what a right mess.

Parents will have booked hotel rooms in line with the original programme of events.

The ASA knew in advance how many qualifiers there would based on their published rankings they should have been pro-active and changed the schedule well in advance.


Surely by now, with the number of full time professional staff employed by the ASA, someone could do some forward planning.

[Kate]

I quite agree with Lane4's comments. Everyone complained about 260 swimmers doing 50m backstroke last year - but this is going to be even worse.

I've also heard several rumours concerning plans for next year - is there any other sport in which competitors are messed about like this?

I also agree with Phil re the programming of 800m being in the same session as the 200m fly - there have been letters about this in the swimming magazines, but does anyone take any notice?

[Phil Tanner]

Still, regardless of programme glitches I'm really looking forward to the meet.

One plea, though, in the unlikely event the meet commentators or anyone who knows them log in here - please can they show more awareness than last year of the age groups swimmers are in? Same heat isn't necessarily same competition.

Are they persisting with the scandal of no memento for anyone lower than third place?

[Phil Tanner]

Probably a bit late to get a reply on this one, but the excellent britishswimming.org includes a link for running BAGCATS tables year by year. However it lists five categories, one of which is sprints - although there are no age-group 50s this year.

Please God they haven't re-designated the 100 free as a sprint to provide a fifth category, with 100 form strokes covering the 100s category...

[swimmer]

correct me and accept my apoliigies if i am wrong, but there is only 1 11 year old in the boys 1500m free!

[Shamu]

I think the 1500 for boys is a double age group ie 11/12 yrs

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

[swimmer]

ok but yeh, still even if it is a double age band, only 1 11year old made the qualifying time - thats a bit unfair to all the 11 year olds out there!

[Shamu]

Quite agree!!

[Phil Tanner]

Just got back tonight, and a few observations in no particular order:

- the programme changes did make for a very long day for the first three days, which from roughly 0745 a.m. went warmup/heats/warmup/heats/warmup/finals with very little time with the pool unoccupied. I think there was an interval of about an hour on the fourth day between the unplanned-for afternoon session and the pre-finals warmup.

- so hats off to the poolside officials, who found themselves signed up for much more work than they would have bargained for. At least one of the two or three meet referees was also at the Commonwealths, and I bet others whose names I don't recognise were as well. We forget these people's contribution at our peril.

- afraid the commentary was no more clued-up than last year.

- as predicted, placing the girls' 200 fly so soon after the 800 free stuffed the BAGCATS points for those strong in both. Just swapping it with the 100 breast on the same day would have made all the difference. Okay, the schedule mirrors the Youth Olympics. But, er, this isn't the Youth Olympics - if it were, for one thing it probably wouldn't be held in Britain - and they don't have BAGCATS there.

- it's a shame BAGCATS presentations weren't made on the day to the top eight, not just the top three with four to eight to be posted on. Why could this not have been made clear via announcements rather than just left for people to find in the small print?

- if World Class Start consideration times are based on finals alone, might it be time to exclude overseas competitors from finals?

- the penalties for an unannounced withdrawal from a final need looking at.

- the no-cards system with heat start sheets in the printed programme worked a treat.

- I think one of our regular contributors is with Warrender in Edinburgh. Their swimmer's 200 im 12 yrs silver, beaten by .01, was the most exciting race of the meet for me.

- fantastic to see Georgina Lee making presentations on Tuesday, putting something back in so soon after her Commonwealth exertions.

[Ian Wright]

Originally posted by Phil Tanner
- one of our contributors is with Warrender in Edinburgh. Their swimmer's 200 im 12 yrs silver, beaten by .01, was the most exciting race of the meet for me.


Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the race. However, it was the 400 IM 5:19.46 to 5:19.47 not the 200. It was a 7 second drop from a PB heat swim and totally unexpected. Being a real 12 year old in my opinion (i.e. 1990 birth) it was just a shame she got beat by one of those almost turned 13 late 1989 birthday types (she turned 13 today in fact!). :( :mad: ;)

Same thing happened to us in the Boys 14 yrs 400 IM, the difference this time between gold and silver being just 0.02. Was still a great time though so we were pretty happy.

[Phil Tanner]

400 IM quite right, my apologies. Regardless of birth date, the girl she beat is a great swimmer and has won everything in sight at Southern Counties the last two years at least. And she isn't a giant either (not that your swimmer is.)

[Phil Tanner]

i.e. of course, the girl she got within 0.1 of.

[Shamu]

I thought NAGs went smoothly, considering the huge number of entries in the youngest age group, but the days were so long that I was more exhausted from the hanging around than the swimming!

I noticed that quite a few swimmers concentrated more on making finals and winning medals than getting BAGCAT points, and did not swim all the events they qualified for. That way they got some time off before finals. With such a full programme, I don't blame them at all. A friend of mine decided to swim just two events, had lots of time off eating well and relaxing in the hotel, and came home with two medals.

Many of the people in the first heats, entered on 25m times, made it through to finals, so it shows that you don't necessarily have to go round chasing long course times.

Lastly, I think that the one and only 11 yr old boy who qualified for and swam the 1500 should have got a medal!!!!