Eindhoven

[hailstone]

Anybody know if the Europeans are to be shown on Eurosport

[Stevie_k]

When are they?

[Verity]

18th - 24th March Stevie

V

[Linny]

http://yahoo.eurosport.com/tvschedule_clng0_day3.shtml etc, etc.

Some of it is live.

[Woodward]

Start lists are up on Omega (http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2008/eindhoven2008/index.htm)

Why doesn't Omega indicate that Tancock is the co-holder of the European Record (from his Japan Open swim)?

[swimbar]

Start lists are up on Omega (http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2008/eindhoven2008/index.htm)

Why doesn't Omega indicate that Tancock is the co-holder of the European Record (from his Japan Open swim)?

Didn't know you could be the co-holder of a record.
Thought you had to beat the record to get recognition?

[Linny]

Didn't know you could be the co-holder of a record.
Thought you had to beat the record to get recognition?
SW 12.7 Times which are equal to 1/100 of a second will be recognised as equal records and swimmers achieving these equal times will be called "Joint Holders". Only the time of the winner of a race may be submitted for a World Record. In the event of a tie in a record-setting race, each swimmer who tied shall be considered a winner.Euope is the same as this I reckon. Anyway, it must be just an oversight. He's shown (http://www.lenweb.org/files_new/pdf_records/EuroLCourseRec.pdf) as being joint record holder on the LEN website.

[Knowley]

Not many brits swimming?

[NotVeryFast]

French Farce Unfolds On Eve Of Euro Champs (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5915)

[Stevie_k]

so is it on telly OR WOT!

[noeyedear]

so is it on telly OR WOT!

yes : http://yahoo.eurosport.com/tvschedule_clng0_day1.shtml


might even be streaming on the web but this new fangled technology is a bit beyond me ;-)

[Apostle]

Not many brits swimming?

It may be that they are preparting for Olympic trials next week.

[Gina]

Not many Brits but, as Apostle mentioned, it is the Olympic Trials next week so only juniors and preselected are going. No Germans at this meet as far as I can see and their trials are towards the end of April.

[Apostle]

You at the trials Gina?

[Gina]

Yep, doing the 50 and 100 free and the 100 breaststroke just for fun! Will you be there?

[typhoon]

I believe webcast is here http://www.europeanchampionships.org/Eindhoven2008/

[Apostle]

Yep, doing the 50 and 100 free and the 100 breaststroke just for fun! Will you be there?

No. not personally. Our club has four swimmers there though so we are all interested in how they do.

[hailstone]

Thanks Linny for eurosport info.
It looks like a lot of the team must be out there for relays only?

[Linny]

It looks like a lot of the team must be out there for relays only?That was always the plan was it not? Pre-selected swimmers only to swim individual events. Relay swimmers, best available for the medleys and 4 x 200s, where we have a chance I guess and 4 x 100s best available from the youth with a view to the future and all to be there and back in a day or something like that.

[Taxiandbank]

That was always the plan was it not? Pre-selected swimmers only to swim individual events. Relay swimmers, best available for the medleys and 4 x 200s, where we have a chance I guess and 4 x 100s best available from the youth with a view to the future and all to be there and back in a day or something like that.

4 x 100 free teams out on Sunday, swim today, back tomorrow.

[noeyedear]

I believe webcast is here http://www.europeanchampionships.org/Eindhoven2008/

anybody watching this ? whats with the crappy music and no commentary ?

ps. there was a championship record just broken in a mens 100m breastroke heat

[Linny]

4 x 100 free teams out on Sunday, swim today, back tomorrow.Didn't the 4 x 100 boys especially do well? And Adam Brown and Grant Turner were really fast - 49.06 and 49.4. Hopefully we will soon have a couple of new names to add to our pathetically small list of sub 50 second freestylers. :D

[irish]

:)What a great split for Big Adam Brown in 4x100 free..............49.08

[Katie]

Yes v v v v good. Good luck to them for the final!

[selkie]

New world record for the Netherlands women's 4x100 free relay. Be interesting to see if they travel well later on this year.

[Woodward]

They really knocked the stuffing out of that record. Marleen might take Steffen's mark at this meet.

Good women's 200 back on tap for tomorrow.

[hailstone]

Just seen results of 200 free what happened to Van Hoogenband 1.49.99 ?

[Linny]

Just seen results of 200 free what happened to Van Hoogenband 1.49.99 ?Well, he wasn't well according to our favourite reporter (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5921).

[Gina]

Wow 52.6 from Veldhuis is awesome and she is a 1979 born as well (she doesn't look very much older than 18 to me). She's made steady progress over the last few years and she is def on for the 100 free WR and maybe the 50.

Great swims from the two guys in the 100 BR with both going under the minute. Some stiff competition for Olympic medals. Also a pretty good 2.07 from Manadou in the 200 back. Will she do it at the Olympics or does she skip it and focus on an event where she is more likely to get gold???

[Gina]

Oh and how could I forget a great swim from my Ealing teammate, Jenna Turner, who split a 56.6 in the 4x100 free relay. That's a second faster than she split at the European Junior meet last year and her individual PB is a 57.8. Would have been awesome for them to make the final but unfortunately they just missed out.

[swimmer_hoop]

I just want to say how good it was to see 2 Irish girls in the semi's of the 200 back. New Irish record by Mel Nocher who is still 19 and Aisling Cooney was 11th, she's just 17.

Well done girls, keep up the good work :)

[lane4]

I just want to say how good it was to see 2 Irish girls in the semi's of the 200 back. New Irish record by Mel Nocher who is still 19 and Aisling Cooney was 11th, she's just 17.

Well done girls, keep up the good work :)

But what has happened to Andrew Bree and Barry Murphy?

[Katie]

I was wondering that Lane4. Mel Nocher has done some amazing short course swims recently, I've seen a 2.08 200 back and a 1.57 200 free, as well as 1.00 on the 100 back. It'd be good to see her hitting equivalent times long course, although she's still swum really well in Eindhoven so far.

[2.tso]

i think are focusing on the games, andy has his time and last i heard it was his only thing he was worried about

[Bazza]

4 x 100 free teams out on Sunday, swim today, back tomorrow.

I'm glad our money is being used to such great effect! :rolleyes:

Lots of good swimming going on in Eindhoven, mens breaststroke with Dale Oen and Duboscq looking like serious medal contenders for Beijing on both the 100 and 200m. Falko did a good 200 as well.

Manaudou good 100 and 200 back, will be interesting to see what she does swim in the summer. If only James Parrack realised that three other women swam under a minute in the last month for the 100 back!

Cavic did a top 50 fly, second all time. His punishment is harsh and it's a shame we won't see what he's capable of in other events.

And the Dutch women were very impressive, what was looking like a good 3 way race now has a fourth team in the mix.

[Linny]

I wonder why the French men didn't swim the 4 x 100 relay.

[selkie]

Did they have one of their probable finalists caught up in the skipped training camp mess?

[Taxiandbank]

I'm glad our money is being used to such great effect! :rolleyes:



And how much of YOUR money was that?:confused:
Of course it would save money not to send the young swimmers anywhere for the next couple of year and then expect them to perform in London 2012.
I thought some of the splits pretty well vindicated the decision. It would appear that nerves played a part in some of the swims, but that is why these guys are being exposed to this level of competition. Hopefully by 2012, and probably by 2010 (Commies), they will fear nobody.
T&B

[Pink Paraffin]

And how much of YOUR money was that?:confused:
Of course it would save money not to send the young swimmers anywhere for the next couple of year and then expect them to perform in London 2012.
I thought some of the splits pretty well vindicated the decision. It would appear that nerves played a part in some of the swims, but that is why these guys are being exposed to this level of competition. Hopefully by 2012, and probably by 2010 (Commies), they will fear nobody.
T&B

At least two of the split times very much vindicated the decision to expose these lads to this level of competition. Well done to Adam and Grant in particular

[Mac]

World record for Bernard in the 100fc semi - 47.6!! Hoogies run at a 3rd Olympic gold seems to get tougher every meet at the moment

[colonelhall]

Did you see that?!!!
Looked like a terrific swim from our girls, with a great last lap challenge on Manadou. I make it an average of around 1.58.1. That's got to be good!

[selkie]

Jackson 1:59.10
Marshall 1:57.81
Gandy 1:59.26
McClatchey 1:56.19

7:52.36

Did Omega get the French order correct? They've got Laure leading off in an uncharacteristic 1:58.5, Balmy at an eye-popping 1:56.5, and Popchenka anchoring in 1:57

And speaking of eye-popping, they've got Federica Pellegini's split listed as 1:54.98

[Katie]

Yes that order was right. Coralie Balmy has done some amazing swims recently. Our girls did so well! Massive BR.

[Gina]

Great swim from the girls. I'm a bit miffed as to why some of the relays are full of juniors and others are seniors. Surely it would have been money well spent to send out a senior team for all relays. The junior guys will have plenty of chances to practice relay races in all these junior and youth meets coming up. This is a rare opportunity for seniors to race internationally.

[Woodward]

Great swim by McClatchey and the rest of the relay. They just ran out of water. The swimmers that need to be in great form in less than two weeks are looking good. Mel Marshall seems to be in better form than last year too. They've got more pieces to consider for the relay too ... including Halsall.

Pellegrini vs. Manaudou in the 200 looks to be a massive race.

Considering Bernard's swim was only in the Semi I wonder if he can drop more time. His pb in the 50 is a 21.76 coming into the meet. The record watch is on in that race too.

[colonelhall]

Ah! My results are coming through, at last. McClatchey second best after an incredible 1.54.98 from Pellegrini

[Gina]

In the womens 4x200 free relay we have quite a few swimmers to choose from. Halsall, Beckett, and a few Nova swimmers can be added into the mix and some of those girls hovering around 2.01s can drop too.

[colonelhall]

Yes, that should be one of the best races at the trials. We need that kind of depth and motivation in as many events as possible.

[Gina]

It will be good, but I wish they'd put the B finals before the A at trials. It just makes it so much better when a swimmer in the final before the A final goes a fast time. It's putting a bit more pressure on the A finalist and gives the B finalists so limelight.

Back to the swimming in Eindhoven ... I think some of the results have chucked up some swimmers who could medal at the Olympics. I think the Russian in the 100 back has a good chance and the breaststroke guys too.

[selkie]

If air quality is good, I wouldn't be surprised if you have to go sub-59 to medal in the women's 100 back or men's 100 breast.

[Woodward]

I also noticed a very young Swedish flyer, Sarah Sjoestroem (born 1993) is 2nd in the Semis on 58.38.

[doublexpresso]

I also noticed a very young Swedish flyer, Sarah Sjoestroem (born 1993) is 2nd in the Semis on 58.38.

Well spotted - she just did 58.44 in the final to beat Inge Dekker by 6/100 - big spurt from the flags.

What about Alain Bernard 47.50 WR?

Also - all this stuff about shaving and suits for streamlining and Peter Mankoc (fastest Semi-finalist - 100 Fly) has a beard!

[Gina]

Mankoc did that at the short courses in December, but I'm sure he will shave for the final.

I wonder what Gary Hall Jr will say about Bernard after his lovely comments about Sullivan's 50 WR!!

[Bully]

What about Alain Bernard 47.50 WR?


Awesome, and I didn't notice a straight arm recovery either?

[Woodward]

Did Manaudou drop the 200 because she's not confident? Has she gone into a mental black hole like she did at the Montreal World Champs? It looks like Pellegrini pulled a Thorpie on the the blocks.


I wonder what Gary Hall Jr will say about Bernard after his lovely comments about Sullivan's 50 WR!!
I can only imagine. I don't think Eamon's swim is remotely near as shocking as what Bernard has been able to do.

[Gina]

Awesome, and I didn't notice a straight arm recovery either?

Bernard made Nystrand's stroke look like a splashing public swimmer. If straight arm swimming works for you then fine but both Sullivan and Bernard have long, normal strokes.

Something else I've noticed is the amount of women doing normal grab starts. I compared Manaudou and Jo Jacksons starts for the 4x200 relay. Manaudou has a slow reaction with the grab start but surfaced ahead of Jackson with the track start. I've witnessed quite a few pre teen swimmers doing track starts and seen them coming up behind a kid starting normally.

[noeyedear]

does the track start need more upper body strength ?

[noeyedear]

Mankoc did that at the short courses in December, but I'm sure he will shave for the final.

looks to me like the not shaving business is a bit of gamesmanship, 'look at me, i'm so cool, i'm not even trying' and he kept drawing attention to it for the camera, something about his name just kept on coming to mind ;-)

[Bully]

looks to me like the not shaving business is a bit of gamesmanship, 'look at me, i'm so cool, i'm not even trying' and he kept drawing attention to it for the camera, something about his name just kept on coming to mind ;-)

I don't agree, I read this gesture as him saying "look at me I'm not even targeting this meet, so look out I'm going to be even faster when I'm shaved down"?

[noeyedear]

I don't agree, I read this gesture as him saying "look at me I'm not even targeting this meet, so look out I'm going to be even faster when I'm shaved down"?

i think you do, we just said it in a different way ;-)

[selkie]

Mankoc did that at the short courses in December, but I'm sure he will shave for the final.

I wonder what Gary Hall Jr will say about Bernard after his lovely comments about Sullivan's 50 WR!!

Gary wouldn't be the only one speculating about Bernard. A number of folks are already classifying his muscle gain (look at pictures of him now and two years ago) and speed as suspect.

[NotVeryFast]

Gary wouldn't be the only one speculating about Bernard. A number of folks are already classifying his muscle gain (look at pictures of him now and two years ago) and speed as suspect.
According to swimnews (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5941), "Magnini told Italian reports that he believed the Frenchman had 'found the right vitamins'"
I have to say, Bernard looks absolutely huge, whatever he's done to get that muscle mass is obviously something different to what the people he's racing against are doing.

[Linny]

According to swimnews (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5941), "Magnini told Italian reports that he believed the Frenchman had 'found the right vitamins'"
What does that mean though?

Are any of the world's best swimmers there on hard work and a healthy diet alone?

I like to assume that everyone is just trying to stay the right side of the boundary whilst pushing as close to it as they can.

[SplashNblub]

According to swimnews (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5941), "Magnini told Italian reports that he believed the Frenchman had 'found the right vitamins'"
I have to say, Bernard looks absolutely huge, whatever he's done to get that muscle mass is obviously something different to what the people he's racing against are doing.
We can speculate till we are blue in the face. The cheats are pulling even more ahead of the testers at the moment as we approach the Olympics so passing drug tests means nothing. It never has done really. What is of just as much concern at the moment as any possible drug use is the Speedo LZR. To quote,

''The Speedo LZR Racer suits are seamless, contain a water-repellent fabric and are said to provide five per cent less passive drag in the pool than the previous model.
Speedo Australia general manager Rob Davies said that people should move with the times. "Without a doubt, they make swimmers go faster. It is the fastest swimsuit in the world," Davies said.''

Oh dear. I find this very dispiriting, as does French swimming federation technical director Claude Fauquet,

"We have not considered the consequences that it could have in the future. This should lead us to ask ourselves what the future of swimming will be if enormous technological possibilities mean that swimsuits become more and more the elements of the performance.''

Perhaps it's back to the birthday suits then. Viewing figures would go up anyway.

[Taxiandbank]

Wikipedia :- Alain Bernard 195 cms 84 kg!

[NotVeryFast]

Wikipedia :- Alain Bernard 195 cms 84 kg!
According to swimnews (http://www.swimnews.com/News/displayStory.jhtml?action=get&id=5942) he's 196cm and 88kg now.

[rossman]

Bernard is on Fire. 21.50 in the 50 Free Semi. Doesn't this guy bother with 100ths?

[Chris]

I'm not sure I can remember a swimmer with the muscle mass that David has.

He is massive!

I'm surprised he can keep those arms moving around!

[Knowley]

He must weigh more than that, he's huge :eek:
Very impressive swim I hope he's clean!
I did notice he breaks out quickly at the start and at the turn...

[selkie]

Are any of the world's best swimmers there on hard work and a healthy diet alone?

I like to assume that everyone is just trying to stay the right side of the boundary whilst pushing as close to it as they can.

The East Germans always claimed that what their swimmers were getting were 'vitamins'.

[Bully]

Isn't Bernards success down to the superb thrust generated from his quick reactive dive, 6 beat kick, streamlining, balance, keyhole pull, great feel for the water, high elbow and water on the forehead?

[doublexpresso]

Great swims from the British relay teams. Has anyone noticed that they have consistently excellent reaction times for the starts and hand overs? Must be specific coaching.

[NotVeryFast]

Isn't Bernards success down to the superb thrust generated from his quick reactive dive, 6 beat kick, streamlining, balance, keyhole pull, great feel for the water, high elbow and water on the forehead?
All that and having muscles like this:
http://media.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080321/080321-swimming-record-1p.hmedium.jpg

[Breaststrokemum]

All that and having muscles like this:
http://media.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080321/080321-swimming-record-1p.hmedium.jpg

Can't see that being natural......however much work he's done in the pool or gym. :zip:

Hideous, IMHO.

BM

[Katie]

What about the guy that won the 100m fly?! His muscles were so huge I was quite scared even watching on the TV! Not being a massive weights person, I am pretty clueless as to how muscles can develop and so on, so I am in no way making any accusations!! I have never seen arms quite like that before!

[Linny]

I'm not saying that's all it is but I do think that these LZRs are making swimmers look bigger than they are - some of the women look like tanks too.

It's just the compression and the cut look to be squashing everything up so that everything else bulges out; a bit like a fat bird wearing a size 10 if you know what I mean.

[Mac]

the GB womens medley team had an excellent swim this morning - only a second or so off the European record and that was with Fran Halsall swimming 55.7 on the anchor (there's potentially a couple of seconds improvement there i would have thought). A very fast 57.6 from Jemma Lowe.

A good solid swim from the men too. 5th into the finals but all the teams were very close. I would expect quite a few teams to bring in different swimmers for the finals but it'll be interesting to see how the Brits get on

[Knowley]

I'm not saying that's all it is but I do think that these LZRs are making swimmers look bigger than they are - some of the women look like tanks too.

It's just the compression and the cut look to be squashing everything up so that everything else bulges out; a bit like a fat bird wearing a size 10 if you know what I mean.

That alan guy is HUGE though...

[Gina]

The camera adds a lot. Take Serena Williams for example. She looks massive on TV but she's not that big in person. A few of our GB guys look massive on TV but they are that much bigger than me!

[Gina]

And I was thinking of the same thing as Katie, that Russia fly bloke looks even scarier. Bernard is a massive guy height wise don't forget.

[Gina]

Great swim from the GB relay team to smash the European and British record. An amazing 53.0 split from Fran. I see she's ditched Adidas for Speedo but I think she was in a Pro not a LZR.

Good to see a WR from someone wearing a non-LZR suit. Pellegrini in the 400 free going 4.01.53. Excellent!

[Woodward]

Halsall should be exciting to watch at the trials in a week. A legitimate medal contender now. Haywood swam well. Ben Hockin had a solid free split on the men's medley.

Either LEN or Omega keep making errors. The pdf on Omega has Russia with the ER when in actuality Germany has the record with a 3:33 from Athens.

What happened to Manaudou? Did she storm off because she's dissatisfied with her swimming or is it more team turmoil? Things might change after the French trials but she's not a clear Olympic favorite in any event right now.

[Katie]

Wow! What an incredible relay! They did brilliantly. Also a really impressive 48 for Ben Hockin in the guys' relay.

[Mac]

I was thinking the same about Manaudou. Even with everything that's been going on with her, until the last couple of weeks i still thought that she'd win her events if she swam at something near her PB. That's not looking so clear now - the 100bk is absolutely loaded with sub-1:00's now, Pellegrini and Hoff look very strong in the 400fc and who knows what Pellegrini would have done in the 200 fc if she'd not be DQ'd. Maybe the 200 bk will offer her a new option but i reckon Kirsty Coventry and several others will be tough to beat in that