Relays for Age Group/Youth Nationals 2012

[comeondarlo]

Originally Posted by taxi service

Official relay teams now published.
http://www.swimming.org/assets/uploa...Teams_2012.pdf

Very interesting.

I'm surprised Barnet did not enter, their boys would have made a more than useful relay team.

[city4nil]

Is there a published 'easy to understand' ( will send to squad coach ) version of the team substitution allowed not allowed rules for this years team events?

I personally think the substitution of swimmers is going to be pretty difficult to police, should any coach be mean spirited enough to actually try it.

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by city4nil

Is there a published 'easy to understand' ( will send to squad coach ) version of the team substitution allowed not allowed rules for this years team events?

I personally think the substitution of swimmers is going to be pretty difficult to police, should any coach be mean spirited enough to actually try it.

Are there any new rules regarding team substitutions this year, now that qualifying has finished? There was an additional regulation covering the Youth qualifying when they added the Zonals as an additional qualifying event, in that you couldn't swim for one team in the Regionals if you'd already swum for a different team at the Zonals. But now that the qualifying team list has been published, I believe the teams can be completely changed if they want to be, (as long, obviously, as the new team swimmers are age qualified.)

So, in the boys 4 x 200 free, for example, Plymouth could now put the boys who qualified their A team into their B team, and vice versa. I think. I'm happy to be corrected.

I still don't believe that that regulation that was introduced re the Zonals applies to other qualifying competitions though. So, following the trend for using colours rather than A and B, an English club could send 4 swimmers to, say, the Scottish Nationals and call the team Swimclub Orange, and then put the same 4 swimmers up at their own Regionals and call them Swimclub Purple, and if the times are good enough, Swimclub could send both an Orange and a Purple team to Sheffield, with one of them populated with swimmers who had never swum in either of the qualifying events.

Not saying this should be allowed - clearly it shouldn't - but I'm not sure there's anything in place to prevent it.

[swimbar]

Originally Posted by BIGBrian

I still don't believe that that regulation that was introduced re the Zonals applies to other qualifying competitions though. So, following the trend for using colours rather than A and B, an English club could send 4 swimmers to, say, the Scottish Nationals and call the team Swimclub Orange, and then put the same 4 swimmers up at their own Regionals and call them Swimclub Purple, and if the times are good enough, Swimclub could send both an Orange and a Purple team to Sheffield, with one of them populated with swimmers who had never swum in either of the qualifying events.

Not saying this should be allowed - clearly it shouldn't - but I'm not sure there's anything in place to prevent it.

I can't see any evidence that this has happened. Presumably you can?

[Analyst]

Originally Posted by BIGBrian

But now that the qualifying team list has been published, I believe the teams can be completely changed if they want to be, (as long, obviously, as the new team swimmers are age qualified.)

No reason I can see why they shouldn't? It happens at the Olympics. It might be a moral issue whether someone who's swum in the team to qualify should be dropped in favour of someone else but that's up to each club to decide for themselves.

Originally Posted by BIGBrian

I still don't believe that that regulation that was introduced re the Zonals applies to other qualifying competitions though. So, following the trend for using colours rather than A and B, an English club could send 4 swimmers to, say, the Scottish Nationals and call the team Swimclub Orange, and then put the same 4 swimmers up at their own Regionals and call them Swimclub Purple, and if the times are good enough, Swimclub could send both an Orange and a Purple team to Sheffield, with one of them populated with swimmers who had never swum in either of the qualifying events.

Not saying this should be allowed - clearly it shouldn't - but I'm not sure there's anything in place to prevent it.

Maybe the answer to this potential issue is to say that clubs can only have more than one team qualifying if they all qualify at the same qualifying competition?

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by swimbar

I can't see any evidence that this has happened. Presumably you can?

What makes you think that? I'm not suggesting at all that it's happened, just observing that I don't know of any mechanism in place that would prevent it.

Something like "No swimmer may swim in a team if they've already competed for a different team in any other Nationals team qualifying competition" included in the Promoters' Conditions for all the Regional championships would do it.

It might be a solution without a problem, but on the other hand, when the Zonals were added as a qualifying competition, someone felt strongly enough about it to go to the trouble of specifically introducing a condition to that effect

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by Analyst

No reason I can see why they shouldn't? It happens at the Olympics. It might be a moral issue whether someone who's swum in the team to qualify should be dropped in favour of someone else but that's up to each club to decide for themselves.

Absolutely. No problem with that at all. We actually swam one of our swimmers in the Regionals knowing that he would be unavailable for the Nationals and would have to be replaced (rather than dropped) because of a prior commitment, but as it happens, he's now changed his plans anyway and looks like he will swim.

Originally Posted by Analyst

Maybe the answer to this potential issue is to say that clubs can only have more than one team qualifying if they all qualify at the same qualifying competition?

Or, as above, just tell them they can't swim for two teams in two different qualifying competitions.

The nuclear option is to go down the Arena League route as they do for the virtual gala and not allow two teams from the same club to qualify.

[awaldram]

Originally Posted by BIGBrian

Absolutely. No problem with that at all. We actually swam one of our swimmers in the Regionals knowing that he would be unavailable for the Nationals and would have to be replaced (rather than dropped) because of a prior commitment, but as it happens, he's now changed his plans anyway and looks like he will swim..

Yep that was a big boost for the team.

Originally Posted by BIGBrian

Or, as above, just tell them they can't swim for two teams in two different qualifying competitions.

Juts a case of cleaning up and clarifying the rules.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Happi Blue

In order to be added to the National Team Qualifiers List the following conditions must be complied with:-

1. Teams must swim as age at 26th July 2012.
2. The final qualifier for Youth Teams will be the British Gas ASA Regional Championships and no teams can achieve selection after this date.
3. A swimmer may only compete for one club for the purpose of seeking to qualify a team for the British Gas ASA National Youth Championships 2012.
(N.B. The conditions for the British Gas National Youth Championships require that a swimmer competing in a team event must compete for the same club in their Individual events)
4. Once a team has competed in a qualifying meet the named members of that team may not compete as members of a different team in any other qualifying meet. The same four swimmers may compete as a team, in more than one qualifying meet, with the intention of securing a faster time.
5. Clubs can swim as many teams as they wish at both the Zonal Championships and the Regional Youth Championships but conditions 3&4 above will apply to all teams.
6. Clubs who achieve qualification for the National Youth Championships may swim different swimmers to those who swam in the Zonal/Regional Championships providing that they comply with the conditions of entry for the National Youth Championships.
7. The compilation of the list of qualifying teams shall be the responsibility of the National Entries Administrator.

The decision as to the presentation of medals at the Regional Youth Championships is not affected by these conditions, which merely refer to National Team Selection.

Explanatory Note.
The purpose of these conditions is to ensure that all clubs & swimmers have the same opportunity to qualify for the National Youth Championships and to prevent clubs from mixing swimmers between teams and competitions in order to qualify additional teams for the National Championships without having the required depth of swimmers.


I may have misunderstood it but I'm glad to be overcautious on behalf of my club. I'll happily leave it to the National Entries Administrator to sort out

Are the conditions the same this year please? (dates excepted of course...)

[chris_lamb]

Originally Posted by Linny

Are the conditions the same this year please? (dates excepted of course...)

There were no relays at the zonal meets this year so the conditions must be different.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by chris_lamb

There were no relays at the zonal meets this year so the conditions must be different.

Where are they to be found or are these the conditions for the relays in their entirety?

Originally Posted by Youth Meet Conditions 2013

4.0 Team Events
[a]. Entry accepted solely from clubs affiliated to the ASA, SASA or WASA as a result of performance in qualifying rounds at the ASA Regional Youth Championships (or equivalent Scottish or Welsh competitions). The ASA Regional Youth Championships shall be the final qualifier for all Youth Team Events.
[b] The fastest 40 teams in each event will be accepted irrespective of English Region, Scotland or Wales. In the event of equal times being submitted for the final available place, a ballot will determine the qualifying team. The names of 2 reserve teams will be published. (Team Entry Fee £18.75)
[d] Clubs must confirm their invitation to compete. Failure to do so may result in their invitation being withdrawn.
Entry confirmation will be by means of an online system. Payment must be made for all team entries at the time of entry via the online system.

[city4nil]

NW regional team conditions 2013:

5.5 Teams events for both boys and girls shall consist of swimmers in the 15-18 years
age groups. (See also paragraphs 3.4 to 3.8 below)
5.6 Teams events for both boys and girls shall be:
• 4x100m Freestyle team
• 4x100m Medley team
• 4x200m Freestyle team
All teams events shall be swum as HDW.


Teams
3.4 Team events shall be open to all clubs affiliated to the ASANWR.
3.5 All teams shall consist of four members
3.6 A swimmer entered in the name of one club in the individual events may not
compete in the name of another club in the teams events.
3.7 Clubs may enter one or more teams, but members shall swim for one team only.
3.8 The team events form part of the qualifying round for entry into the ASA National
Youth Championships. As such, swimmers must be aged 15 to 18 on August 4th
2013.

We rarely compete in this to the full at youth for reason, but I think the fact that the club age group coach managed to get a team through to every catagory at age last year may have caused a re-think, it is really almost a matter of entering for a strong club. Winning however that is indeed a toughie.

[swimbar]

Originally Posted by Linny

Where are they to be found or are these the conditions for the relays in their entirety?

Seems fairly simple straightforward to me!!

[Linny]

Originally Posted by swimbar

Seems fairly simple straightforward to me!!

It is and the reason I ask every year and have a little niggle is that there is nothing to stop a swimmer, or even a group of swimmers, swimming for their first claim club as a member (members) of a team that qualifies and also in their second claim club as a member (members) of a team that qualifies (provided the qualification takes place on different days), despite the fact that when it comes to the Championships they can clearly only swim in one team.

[city4nil]

Originally Posted by Linny

It is and the reason I ask every year and have a little niggle is that there is nothing to stop a swimmer, or even a group of swimmers, swimming for their first claim club as a member (members) of a team that qualifies and also in their second claim club as a member (members) of a team that qualifies (provided the qualification takes place on different days), despite the fact that when it comes to the Championships they can clearly only swim in one team.

1. There is no such thing as 1st claim, old world terminology. Just a minor thing but swimmers are regularly members of many clubs for many reasons - the club they pay there ASA fees through is their 'ranked club' but this really only effects the name associated to their times on rankings.

2. I believe if you wanted to be naughty you could definately get away with this, but only because it is very difficult to police, I think that the powers that be would hope that someone would 'dob you in'