South East Region Winter Championships 2012 Qualifying Times

[awaldram]

Originally Posted by noeyedear

lucky boy, mine hasn't for ages as it only pops up in level 3 meets and he has been too fast for a while...

You don't offer it @club champs ?

Has to be there for the fun factor surely that and the 50's just so they can do them once a year SC.

[noeyedear]

Originally Posted by awaldram

You don't offer it @club champs ?

Has to be there for the fun factor surely that and the 50's just so they can do them once a year SC.

He was at a club last year that didn't have a club champs, terribly serious... Just one of the many reasons he's not there anymore. He will get to do it this year now he's back home but as he is in semi-retirement then who knows. He could probably swim the 100 free at club champs as an IM and still win, is that allowed ?

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by noeyedear

He was at a club last year that didn't have a club champs, terribly serious... Just one of the many reasons he's not there anymore. He will get to do it this year now he's back home but as he is in semi-retirement then who knows. He could probably swim the 100 free at club champs as an IM and still win, is that allowed ?

Can't see why not. We had a girl at our Club Champs at the weekend who chucked in a couple of lengths of backstroke midway through the (200, I think?) freestyle event, and then did a couple more later in the same race as well.

[awaldram]

Wouldn't medal at our club unless he can go sub 54 for 100iM which would be impressive
But yes it would be legal.

I seem to remember someones daughter not a million miles away knocking out 1500+ fly in a 20minute freestyle charity swim

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by awaldram

Wouldn't medal at our club unless he can go sub 54 for 100iM which would be impressive
But yes it would be legal.

I seem to remember someones daughter not a million miles away knocking out 1500+ fly in a 20minute freestyle charity swim

Ah, the exuberance of youth. 1500 fly in 20 mins is easy when you're 14....she couldn't do it now!

[Apostle]

Originally Posted by ambresolaire

It's embarrassing for the region that national level 11 year olds (in the 200 Fly at least) have to achieve a higher standard to qualify than do the senior elite in the South East. It undermines and dilutes what a senior regional championships should be.

When you posted this i thought i would check out our regions 200 fly time and i couldnt believe it was 14 seconds faster. I dont understand why there would be such a difference.

[BIGBrian]

Originally Posted by Apostle

When you posted this i thought i would check out our regions 200 fly time and i couldnt believe it was 14 seconds faster. I dont understand why there would be such a difference.

Supply and demand.

I noted that last years County qualifying times had a >12 second discrepancy over 50m Freestyle between us and a neighbouring County in the same age group, so 14 seconds over 200 Fly isn't really a surprise

[awaldram]

I believe as a region we have a policy (official or not) to encourage the proper swims (fly , breast) at the expense of the easier swims (freestyle).

So generally our fly and breast should be easier and free harder compared to a region that didn't.

Add to that pool time and times are not really comparable, From an ASA perspective the time are right if the event is full and run without loss.

This seems a good and pragmatic approach.

As others noted some clubs have no clubs champs and some offer limited swims, We ran ours over 5 days and offered every swim available to every member no time limits.!

The same thing applies at county regional levels some are inclusive whilst others exclusive (as in exclude) .

Re-reading this I've over complicated what I'm trying to say

In essence if you decide you are going to have 3 heats of Fly then your QT's will be easier than an event with 1

As you often see at open meets 20,000 heats of 50 free is the way to rake in the cash but maybe not in the interests of developing UK swimming.!

[awaldram]

Originally Posted by Apostle

When you posted this i thought i would check out our regions 200 fly time and i couldnt believe it was 14 seconds faster. I dont understand why there would be such a difference.

This is why its so different

East
26.47 50m Freestyle 30.00
57.10 100m Freestyle 1:04.03
2:04.63 200m Freestyle 2:17.25
29.70 50m Butterfly 33.11
SouthEast
25.85 50 Free 29.15
56.35 100 Free 1:02.75
2:04.00 200 Free 2:14.40
28.90 50 Fly 32.70

East has taken the decisions to fill the meet with the slower freestyle's and 50 sprint specialists.
Southeast has decided to fill with for the slower Breast and fly swimmers.

Of cause you have to take the strength in depth into account as well , in the east there are 162 women inside 1:04.03 and in the SE 159 inside 1:02.75

On the 200 fly male the east has 44 swimmers eligible (2:19) and SE has 133 (2:33) and for completeness (we all love to brag) SE would have 42 for 2:19.74

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Apostle

When you posted this i thought i would check out our regions 200 fly time and i couldnt believe it was 14 seconds faster. I dont understand why there would be such a difference.

They are probably different because different people use different approaches to decide on qualifying times.

You can adopt an approach which you hope will lead to similar numbers of swimmers in each event. To do this you might look at a previous year's results or rankings and set times from these. This type of approach leads to slower entry times for events like 200 fly which swimmers tend to drop unless they are good at it. This method might be preferred by a region wanting to encourage development in weaker events.

An alternative approach is to base your times on theoretical performances extrapolated down from world/country top performances. This would result in the 200 fly time being faster than if the other method is used. This might allow a region to see where its strengths are but could result in some events being busier than others.

[Apostle]

Originally Posted by Linny

They are probably different because different people use different approaches to decide on qualifying times.

You can adopt an approach which you hope will lead to similar numbers of swimmers in each event. To do this you might look at a previous year's results or rankings and set times from these. This type of approach leads to slower entry times for events like 200 fly which swimmers tend to drop unless they are good at it. This method might be preferred by a region wanting to encourage development in weaker events.

An alternative approach is to base your times on theoretical performances extrapolated down from world/country top performances. This would result in the 200 fly time being faster than if the other method is used. This might allow a region to see where its strengths are but could result in some events being busier than others.

Thank you.

[Apostle]

Originally Posted by awaldram

This is why its so different

East
26.47 50m Freestyle 30.00
57.10 100m Freestyle 1:04.03
2:04.63 200m Freestyle 2:17.25
29.70 50m Butterfly 33.11
SouthEast
25.85 50 Free 29.15
56.35 100 Free 1:02.75
2:04.00 200 Free 2:14.40
28.90 50 Fly 32.70

East has taken the decisions to fill the meet with the slower freestyle's and 50 sprint specialists.
Southeast has decided to fill with for the slower Breast and fly swimmers.

Of cause you have to take the strength in depth into account as well , in the east there are 162 women inside 1:04.03 and in the SE 159 inside 1:02.75

On the 200 fly male the east has 44 swimmers eligible (2:19) and SE has 133 (2:33) and for completeness (we all love to brag) SE would have 42 for 2:19.74

I hope you don't think I was bragging. Certainly not. Just asking a question about the differences. But I can throw some stats at you if you like


I don't know how you would know for sure what the East region have decided on?

My view is that as a senior open meet that they have to run over the course of a weekend they have set the entry times to limit entries.

[awaldram]

No
I just thought it seemed I was when I covered off the free times so thought I'd lighten the reply.

>>I don't know how you would know for sure what the East region have decided on?

I don't,
Hypothesising as I did originally that the East would have comparative easy Free time proved true when checking the time as I posted, indicates the East will have a lot of free events and few FLy . The SE conversely will have about 140 eligible entries for all.

I said nothing different to Linny, and any way you dice it as you say you have to limit the entries.

Both methods are are valid from a practical point but are born of differing philosophies and end goals.