How common is bullying in swimming clubs? - Page 14

Taxing · 28-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Oh I am sure that there will be further news, but hopefully it'll not be as bad as before

Kids unfortunately are spitefl creatures, especially teen and near-teen girls, and thus one expects the occasional "hiccup" to occur

GettingFaster · 28-01-2009, 09:24 PM

That's one thing you can be almost certain of, Taxing.

Taxing · 28-01-2009, 10:21 PM

I have 4 daughters, I'm well used to this!

deepwater · 29-01-2009, 12:24 PM

well excuse me! as a teenager i dont think im that bad! everyone is different.

well when i was 11 the exact same thing happened to me, i was in a big club. it got too much for me and i asked my mum could i move clubs. i moved to a small club and i am having a great time a number of years on. it all depends on the structure of the club though and of course how strong your daughter is. good luck!

topbomber · 29-01-2009, 01:34 PM

Careful when saying too young to move to top squad! Depends on the clubs structure and the training level in that top squad, We've had 13YO National age group record holders in our top squad for a while now and the program has plenty of development left in it to bring these through to Olympic level if they maintain the commitment (we haven't given them all the eggs yet). I'm of the opinion that in our restricted club environment the athletes need to progress and be rewarded (with more coaching time and specific programming) in line with their efforts and achievements. My own daughter is 14YO and not in top squad but she's not biologically 14 whereas some 12 YO are older in real terms than her if you see my point? Chronological age is sometimes useful but biological age and size can be far more important. WRT bullying its rife in all sport, Nephew was victim of happy slapping from teamates and supposedly a joke, all on film and was the perpetrator kicked out, no but you can bet there's been a subsequent clampdown. Very thin line between competitive and bullying and one coaches are ever aware of stepping over as sometimes the line is at a different point for some folk ie whats seen as a good motivational kick up the backside by one person may easily be interpreted as bullying by another.

deepwater · 29-01-2009, 06:25 PM

i never said not to move to top squad i have always been in top squad since i was 10 goin on 11. i have also been a national age group holder but i mean to say is carefull what you do with yur daughter. make sue she agrees with what you do about it.

plus taxing i still dont agree with what you said about teenage girls being brats. <--- you just dont understand our type we are all different lol!

Gina · 30-01-2009, 10:22 AM

I watch the Wright Stuff a lot on Channel 5 and they have mentioned bullying a bit recently and I read an article in the Daily Telegraph a week ago and they had the same approach to bullying. If it is petty stuff like a few words or a shove etc then let the kids talk it out after the class is over. There was a study done in the US and it showed that if the bully spoke to the bullied child in a controlled environment then they are more likely to realise what impact their actions have on the child and they can get their issues off their chest too. Sometimes the bully doesn't know just how bad they are affecting the child they are bullying and talking about it helps.

A few interesting views on bullying that I found when googling the news section

http://ukfamily.co.uk/lifestyle/news...ng-latest.html

My favourite http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0125193150.htm with it mentioning the 15 minutes at the end of lessons to reflect and also this sentence which is what I was trying to explain earlier on 'The emphasis was on the need to understand rather than react to others and thus avoid the problems created by a regression into the victim, victimizer and bully.'

Taxing · 02-02-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedo

i never said not to move to top squad i have always been in top squad since i was 10 goin on 11. i have also been a national age group holder but i mean to say is carefull what you do with yur daughter. make sue she agrees with what you do about it.

plus taxing i still dont agree with what you said about teenage girls being brats. <--- you just dont understand our type we are all different lol!

Apologies, was a jokey generalism which wasn't meant to cause offence - more a comment on the typical "Kevin" type teenager!

Toe in Water · 04-02-2009, 09:42 AM

Not bullying, but a chance perhaps to prolong a good thread (thanks Taxing) and bring in thoughts from Speedo and others.

What do you do when a child does not gell with a new coach? Nothing wrong with the coach or the child. But it means that part of the fun is lost from training sessions.

GettingFaster · 04-02-2009, 09:47 AM

Toes, you been watchin' my sprog?

What you do is despair, pull your hair out, try to come up with "coping strategies" and then pull out more hair.

Apostle · 04-02-2009, 10:37 AM

Toes.

Did you take the opportunity to have a months trial at the new club to see if your child liked the new regime?

Moving to a new club and perhaps a tougher or more regimented regime can often take a while to get used to. (forgive me making assumptions).

This might cause your child or yourself to have second thoughts because the relationship with the coach may not be how you want it to start off with. I'd say it took my son well over a year to be able really get to know his coach's demands.

For my part, it was often quite hard to listen to him being told to do something for the umpteenth time. But I said from the beginning when joining the club that I as a parent placed 100% faith in the fact that he knew what he was doing. The club I was at before was small and I often helped out around the pool deck, even taking some sessions. I know nothing about coaching and when I joined I was glad that he was in the hands of a pro who would eventually get the best out of him. Three years later and this is true and he enjoys a good understanding with the coach and his methods.

I can sit back and not question one method at all. Ever.

Hope that your child settles in nicely.

DanishSwimmer · 04-02-2009, 08:24 PM

But what if it is not a kid having moved to a new club, but the kid's current club has got a new coach?
I would imagine this could be harder to cope with as in this situation the kid has not brought about the change himself/herself whereas if he or she has chosen to change club, he/she might more easily accept some time to adjust to the new coach.

Bully · 04-02-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toe in Water

Not bullying, but a chance perhaps to prolong a good thread (thanks Taxing) and bring in thoughts from Speedo and others.

What do you do when a child does not gell with a new coach? Nothing wrong with the coach or the child. But it means that part of the fun is lost from training sessions.

If the coach is helping the child fulfil their potential...nothing!!!
If a child is learning to train, they may experience discipline they hadn't while in the learn to swim program. The coach may not be as nice as their old teacher, and sessions aren't as much fun, but that's part of the childs development.

Taxing · 11-11-2009, 10:18 PM

Hi guys and gals

Bet you'd thought you'd seen the last of this!

Sadly not, as under club rules she was eligible to swim in the club champs, despite changing her rank club.

Despite still swimming for them in Kent Junior League and other club galas when not interfering with rank club commitments, there were moves to stop her swimming

Having failed at a committee meeting just 3 days before the club champs a last ditch effort was made to appeal to the club chair to remove her.

Didn't happen, she swam and fared fairly well but wasn't dominant by any stretch (except for winning 12/13, junior and senior 200 free

)

However, the last ditch effort by supposed "friends" of ours prompted me to write one of my infamous and reasonably elloquent letters to the chairman pointing out the bullying that had continued to a greater or lesser extent causing the change in rank club and the club she trains with generally, and asking what has been done to stop this happening any more.

This obviously had an effect, especially the comment suggesting that ASA CW procedures may not have been followed.

There has been no open hostility to us as a family, but there are now little snipes being made through 3rd parties, and now it seems that the main person who has the issue wants my wife to step down from volunteer working on club front desk.

The worst though was when I was time keeping her niece in the 800m - she is my daughter's main competition in age group - and had me removed from time leeping her.

This is a total slur on my character and is my main concern now.

As a supposedly respectable member of society (chartered accountant, school governor etc) I have had my character pretty much defamed by this act.

Now my letter is up for discussion next week, but I am not allowed to attend the meeting and have not been given sight of the letter that prompted mine (the letter being the last ditch attempt)

So question is -

DO I offer to meet face to face and discuss?

Do I let them meet and discuss it and, if not happy with the outcome, go to the ASA?

I have a lot of affection for the club, and don't want any harm to come to it as they in general do a good job and the kids are in the main wonderful.

But I am now at the stage where I have been abused in terms of my reputation, and I would rather the club stopped than other children and families suffering the way my daughter and family have

Sorry rant over, but your advice, as always, is greatly appreciated

GettingFaster · 11-11-2009, 10:33 PM

Who moved you away from that lane for timekeeping? Was it a qualified ref? If so, I am shocked. No referee worth their salt would do that, as officials are expected to be impartial, in fact it's part of the training course even for timekeepers. You may wish to contact the officials training coordinator for your county to see if they can shine a light on who to contact, if the person who moved you from that lane was qualified.

At our club champs some new volunteers (not trained) asked if they had to move out of their daughter's lane for timekeeping and were told in no uncertain terms that that was not necessary, they were expected to be impartial.

However, looking at the other side of the coin, you may have been moved to protect you from accusations of being unfair, by not putting you in a position to be. I know it's not possible to mention every nuance of a situation in a single post. Could that possibly be the reason why you didn't timekeep for that swimmer?

29-01-2009, 12:24 PM	#199
deepwater Established Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ? Posts: 196	well excuse me! as a teenager i dont think im that bad! everyone is different. well when i was 11 the exact same thing happened to me, i was in a big club. it got too much for me and i asked my mum could i move clubs. i moved to a small club and i am having a great time a number of years on. it all depends on the structure of the club though and of course how strong your daughter is. good luck! __________________ people must respect others and mind there own business. Last edited by deepwater; 29-01-2009 at 12:31 PM.

29-01-2009, 06:25 PM	#201
deepwater Established Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ? Posts: 196	i never said not to move to top squad i have always been in top squad since i was 10 goin on 11. i have also been a national age group holder but i mean to say is carefull what you do with yur daughter. make sue she agrees with what you do about it. plus taxing i still dont agree with what you said about teenage girls being brats. <--- you just dont understand our type we are all different lol! __________________ people must respect others and mind there own business.

04-02-2009, 10:37 AM	#206
Apostle The Sheriff of Ipswich! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Essex / Suffolk Posts: 2,049	Toes. Did you take the opportunity to have a months trial at the new club to see if your child liked the new regime? Moving to a new club and perhaps a tougher or more regimented regime can often take a while to get used to. (forgive me making assumptions). This might cause your child or yourself to have second thoughts because the relationship with the coach may not be how you want it to start off with. I'd say it took my son well over a year to be able really get to know his coach's demands. For my part, it was often quite hard to listen to him being told to do something for the umpteenth time. But I said from the beginning when joining the club that I as a parent placed 100% faith in the fact that he knew what he was doing. The club I was at before was small and I often helped out around the pool deck, even taking some sessions. I know nothing about coaching and when I joined I was glad that he was in the hands of a pro who would eventually get the best out of him. Three years later and this is true and he enjoys a good understanding with the coach and his methods. I can sit back and not question one method at all. Ever. Hope that your child settles in nicely. __________________ 'Do not read beauty magazines. They will only make you feel ugly!!'

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28-01-2009, 07:23 PM	#196
Taxing Established Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kent Posts: 853	Oh I am sure that there will be further news, but hopefully it'll not be as bad as before Kids unfortunately are spitefl creatures, especially teen and near-teen girls, and thus one expects the occasional "hiccup" to occur

28-01-2009, 09:24 PM	#197
GettingFaster Established Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,301	That's one thing you can be almost certain of, Taxing.

28-01-2009, 10:21 PM	#198
Taxing Established Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kent Posts: 853	I have 4 daughters, I'm well used to this!

29-01-2009, 01:34 PM	#200
topbomber Big Splash Tsunami Diver Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Frozen North Posts: 210	Careful when saying too young to move to top squad! Depends on the clubs structure and the training level in that top squad, We've had 13YO National age group record holders in our top squad for a while now and the program has plenty of development left in it to bring these through to Olympic level if they maintain the commitment (we haven't given them all the eggs yet). I'm of the opinion that in our restricted club environment the athletes need to progress and be rewarded (with more coaching time and specific programming) in line with their efforts and achievements. My own daughter is 14YO and not in top squad but she's not biologically 14 whereas some 12 YO are older in real terms than her if you see my point? Chronological age is sometimes useful but biological age and size can be far more important. WRT bullying its rife in all sport, Nephew was victim of happy slapping from teamates and supposedly a joke, all on film and was the perpetrator kicked out, no but you can bet there's been a subsequent clampdown. Very thin line between competitive and bullying and one coaches are ever aware of stepping over as sometimes the line is at a different point for some folk ie whats seen as a good motivational kick up the backside by one person may easily be interpreted as bullying by another.

30-01-2009, 10:22 AM	#202
Gina Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London Posts: 2,061	I watch the Wright Stuff a lot on Channel 5 and they have mentioned bullying a bit recently and I read an article in the Daily Telegraph a week ago and they had the same approach to bullying. If it is petty stuff like a few words or a shove etc then let the kids talk it out after the class is over. There was a study done in the US and it showed that if the bully spoke to the bullied child in a controlled environment then they are more likely to realise what impact their actions have on the child and they can get their issues off their chest too. Sometimes the bully doesn't know just how bad they are affecting the child they are bullying and talking about it helps. A few interesting views on bullying that I found when googling the news section http://ukfamily.co.uk/lifestyle/news...ng-latest.html My favourite http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0125193150.htm with it mentioning the 15 minutes at the end of lessons to reflect and also this sentence which is what I was trying to explain earlier on 'The emphasis was on the need to understand rather than react to others and thus avoid the problems created by a regression into the victim, victimizer and bully.'

04-02-2009, 09:42 AM	#204
Toe in Water Established Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 128	Not bullying, but a chance perhaps to prolong a good thread (thanks Taxing) and bring in thoughts from Speedo and others. What do you do when a child does not gell with a new coach? Nothing wrong with the coach or the child. But it means that part of the fun is lost from training sessions.

04-02-2009, 09:47 AM	#205
GettingFaster Established Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,301	Toes, you been watchin' my sprog? What you do is despair, pull your hair out, try to come up with "coping strategies" and then pull out more hair.

04-02-2009, 08:24 PM	#207
DanishSwimmer Established Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 31	But what if it is not a kid having moved to a new club, but the kid's current club has got a new coach? I would imagine this could be harder to cope with as in this situation the kid has not brought about the change himself/herself whereas if he or she has chosen to change club, he/she might more easily accept some time to adjust to the new coach.

11-11-2009, 10:18 PM	#209
Taxing Established Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kent Posts: 853	Hi guys and gals Bet you'd thought you'd seen the last of this! Sadly not, as under club rules she was eligible to swim in the club champs, despite changing her rank club. Despite still swimming for them in Kent Junior League and other club galas when not interfering with rank club commitments, there were moves to stop her swimming Having failed at a committee meeting just 3 days before the club champs a last ditch effort was made to appeal to the club chair to remove her. Didn't happen, she swam and fared fairly well but wasn't dominant by any stretch (except for winning 12/13, junior and senior 200 free ) However, the last ditch effort by supposed "friends" of ours prompted me to write one of my infamous and reasonably elloquent letters to the chairman pointing out the bullying that had continued to a greater or lesser extent causing the change in rank club and the club she trains with generally, and asking what has been done to stop this happening any more. This obviously had an effect, especially the comment suggesting that ASA CW procedures may not have been followed. There has been no open hostility to us as a family, but there are now little snipes being made through 3rd parties, and now it seems that the main person who has the issue wants my wife to step down from volunteer working on club front desk. The worst though was when I was time keeping her niece in the 800m - she is my daughter's main competition in age group - and had me removed from time leeping her. This is a total slur on my character and is my main concern now. As a supposedly respectable member of society (chartered accountant, school governor etc) I have had my character pretty much defamed by this act. Now my letter is up for discussion next week, but I am not allowed to attend the meeting and have not been given sight of the letter that prompted mine (the letter being the last ditch attempt) So question is - DO I offer to meet face to face and discuss? Do I let them meet and discuss it and, if not happy with the outcome, go to the ASA? I have a lot of affection for the club, and don't want any harm to come to it as they in general do a good job and the kids are in the main wonderful. But I am now at the stage where I have been abused in terms of my reputation, and I would rather the club stopped than other children and families suffering the way my daughter and family have Sorry rant over, but your advice, as always, is greatly appreciated

11-11-2009, 10:33 PM	#210
GettingFaster Established Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,301	Who moved you away from that lane for timekeeping? Was it a qualified ref? If so, I am shocked. No referee worth their salt would do that, as officials are expected to be impartial, in fact it's part of the training course even for timekeepers. You may wish to contact the officials training coordinator for your county to see if they can shine a light on who to contact, if the person who moved you from that lane was qualified. At our club champs some new volunteers (not trained) asked if they had to move out of their daughter's lane for timekeeping and were told in no uncertain terms that that was not necessary, they were expected to be impartial. However, looking at the other side of the coin, you may have been moved to protect you from accusations of being unfair, by not putting you in a position to be. I know it's not possible to mention every nuance of a situation in a single post. Could that possibly be the reason why you didn't timekeep for that swimmer?

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