Improving racing ability

[Taxing]

I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall at the moment at one of the clubs I'm involved in.

They state that they want to be competitive, yet they fail to advise swimmers of opens.

It's my opinion that training and development galas are a good start to competition, but that they don't teach swimmers to race.

The coaches state that they want to improve the club's performance in national league etc, but don't support the swimmers in suggesting opens that they should attend, and, even more critically, rarely attend opens to assist swimmers with advice before and after racing.

Am I wrong? Can a club be successful without their swimmers having a better picture of the world outside their own club?

[Linny]

Are you on the coaching staff or management committee?

[Taxing]

Does that have any bearing on the matter?

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Taxing

Does that have any bearing on the matter?

Well, I think so.

You say you are banging your head against a brick wall but what are you actually doing to effect this change that you think is necessary?

I don't know what your circumstances are in the club but it seems to me that if your daughter is used to going to open meets as a loner as you have said then it may be you that is out of sync with the rest of the club and perhaps there is no real desire to change so if you think it is necessary then you will have to get stuck in there.

I don't disagree with any of your comments in your first post on this thread. I strongly agree with you about the need for swimmers to see the bigger picture and the need for coaches to encourage and support all of the swimmers within their club to experience competition at the right level and at the right time.

My question about your involvement was in an attempt to establish what you are doing to try and make it happen because if you really want it to happen then I would suggest that the best way would be to get yourself a coaching qualification and involve yourself in the decision making processes about which meets the club attends and to offer to be that coach that supports the club swimmers at open meets that the club currently lacks.

Failing that, get yourself on the management committee and effect a change that way.

Maybe you are already doing one or both of these things?

[Taxing]

Originally Posted by Linny

Well, I think so.

You say you are banging your head against a brick wall but what are you actually doing to effect this change that you think is necessary?

I don't know what your circumstances are in the club but it seems to me that if your daughter is used to going to open meets as a loner as you have said then it may be you that is out of sync with the rest of the club and perhaps there is no real desire to change so if you think it is necessary then you will have to get stuck in there.

I don't disagree with any of your comments in your first post on this thread. I strongly agree with you about the need for swimmers to see the bigger picture and the need for coaches to encourage and support all of the swimmers within their club to experience competition at the right level and at the right time.

My question about your involvement was in an attempt to establish what you are doing to try and make it happen because if you really want it to happen then I would suggest that the best way would be to get yourself a coaching qualification and involve yourself in the decision making processes about which meets the club attends and to offer to be that coach that supports the club swimmers at open meets that the club currently lacks.

Failing that, get yourself on the management committee and effect a change that way.

Maybe you are already doing one or both of these things?

Ah ok, apologies, misunderstood where you were coming from.

Ok, I'm on management committee of another club, but offered to take over doing the opens etc at a parents and coaches meeting in May.

The club competes in Arena League and considers itself a competitive club (lead coach's words not mine) but the club isn't anywhere near as competitive as it could be because very few of the swimmers (i.e. only those who compete in opens) actually know how to race against clubs other than those they compete against each year in their development series.

And even then the decent swimmers are too fast to do the development galas anyway so it means in many cases the only competitive swims they see are at arena and club champs.

SO yes I have tried to help with this, have been royally ignored (despite saying to other parents I'm probably the person to ask about opens and then moaning when I give them info) and do feel like

Aren't swimming clubs great???

[awaldram]

Hi,

Without buy-in from the head coach I'm afraid your going to hit a dead end.

Most parents need pushing in the right direction else the path of least resistance is the most traveled.

Without Coaches telling swimmers what meets they should be attending and a bit of a stick to enforce it you will find it very difficult to affect a culture change.

We have recently gone through a sea change , historically only the 'elite' did any opens with the run and mill messing with Saturday night galas.


Things didn't really change until the end of the first season when parents on asking why little johnny wasn't moved to X squad were gentle reminded of the competitive experience little Johnny didn't have.

So I think your first attack has to be the Coaches, It doesn't sound like they have any commitment to competitive swimming.

Actually it sound like their a little scared of moving out of the comfort zone of fielding above average swimmers at Dev Galas which a lot of smaller clubs go for (easy wins)!!

[Noswimdad]

Originally Posted by awaldram

So I think your first attack has to be the Coaches, It doesn't sound like they have any commitment to competitive swimming.

Actually it sound like their a little scared of moving out of the comfort zone of fielding above average swimmers at Dev Galas which a lot of smaller clubs go for (easy wins)!!

All sounds horribly familiar and when a parent "dared" to make a suggestion the brick wall appeared.

Thankfully, we now have a new Head Coach and coaching regime and things are MUCH better.

[Taxing]

Originally Posted by awaldram

Hi,

Without buy-in from the head coach I'm afraid your going to hit a dead end.

Most parents need pushing in the right direction else the path of least resistance is the most traveled.

Without Coaches telling swimmers what meets they should be attending and a bit of a stick to enforce it you will find it very difficult to affect a culture change.

We have recently gone through a sea change , historically only the 'elite' did any opens with the run and mill messing with Saturday night galas.


Things didn't really change until the end of the first season when parents on asking why little johnny wasn't moved to X squad were gentle reminded of the competitive experience little Johnny didn't have.

So I think your first attack has to be the Coaches, It doesn't sound like they have any commitment to competitive swimming.

Actually it sound like their a little scared of moving out of the comfort zone of fielding above average swimmers at Dev Galas which a lot of smaller clubs go for (easy wins)!!

A comment was made a few years ago about "targeting development galas" which seemed a ludicrous way of dealing with things

The club has decided to change things to make those not wanting to do galas (either opens or saturday night mess arounds as was said earlier) swim in a "training group" so to speak and free up the squad lanes for those wishing to support the club at galas.

Great, whole-heartedly agree with this.

The problem is, there's no communication as to how this will be done! The details that went with the new times etc said we want to be a competitive club - but unless what they mean by "competitive" is communicated to the swimmers and their parents it never will be!

Traditional early season opens where swimmers can assess their fitness etc have been ignored, no communications sent out on other opens until prompted to do so and I just get other parents asking me when such and such open closes, when is it, what events are there etc and then I get accused of usurping the coaches' roles!

Does my head in and I wonder why I bother trying to help.

And as NSD said it is all too familiar with small clubs, but as a member of 2 small clubs I know it doesn't have to be, and isn't always, the way

[selkie]

Originally Posted by Taxing

Am I wrong? Can a club be successful without their swimmers having a better picture of the world outside their own club?

The mentality over here is pretty much: Race. Relatively often. Even when in fairly heavy training. (And the swim culture here is that meet day is fun and very much looked forward to. It's rather odd to get a young swimmer who just wants to train and not do meets.)

And while you can have a good amount of success without racing much, when you do reach a level where you're racing against someone with the same level of talent & fitness, the people who spent years racing more seem to end up with the win. The hugely talented but often disappointing Yannick Agnel just announced that he's planning on a training trip of the US winter with the idea of swimming a bunch of grand prix level events because he's going to follow Ryan Lochte's model of racing a lot against good competition, even while in heavy training, in hopes that it would help him find an edge for French Trials and the Olympics.

[Taxing]

I'd have to agree with you.

[awaldram]

Originally Posted by Taxing

I'd have to agree with you.

I think other thing that proper competition blows away is that " at the level I'm at its hard to be better'

Always brings a smile to my face as swimmer/parents attend the 'next level' competition and see what 'good' is at that level whether it be county/regional/national or L1,2,3 meet.

Only messing round with Sat night Galas can soon lead talented swimmers to think there at the top of the ladder when in reality there not even on the first rung and would be unable to compete in a full weekend programme.

[Taxing]

So so true

Can you come and tell that to some people please???

[Tatter]

Doesn't it also depend on how much training the club has access to as well though?

I do not know Taxing's club situation, but I know of local clubs that only have 2-3 short sessions a week. Saturday Night galas, and maybe a Level 4 meet once a year would be plenty. It all depends on the training/competition ratio.

[Laugh Out Loud]

Originally Posted by Tatter

Doesn't it also depend on how much training the club has access to as well though?

I do not know Taxing's club situation, but I know of local clubs that only have 2-3 short sessions a week. Saturday Night galas, and maybe a Level 4 meet once a year would be plenty. It all depends on the training/competition ratio.

these saturday night galas sound horrible! Are they what they are called do people really go on a saturday night and how on earth do you get officials?
Dont seem to have these in Scotland!

[Taxing]

Saturday night galas tend to be (except for Arena league) B grade or development type galas where the less competitive swimmers in a club get a chance to race.

In most cases officials are happy to help as most clubs have at least one or two licenced officials and so if there are 6 clubs you can normally get sufficient judges, and in most cases unqualified but experienced timekeepers are used.

Don't get me wrong; development galas are there for a good reason, and the way it works with one of the clubs I'm associated with is that there are "speeding ticket" times which is these are bettered then the swimmer gets a "speeding ticket" and their swim does not count towards the club's score in the gala.

Their aim is to get people to improve in all their strokes and if they speed in one or twon strokes perhaps they can still do another.

It isn't sufficient though to develop a racing squad if you want to succeed in say the Arena league. The problem is you race against the same group of clubs each time, and you can do well there and I have seen swimmers think that they are the bees knees as a result, only to come up against a really strong club in Arena and find out that there is a chasm between their ability and that of a similarly aged swimmer from another club.

By doing opens the swimmer would see what other swimmers are out there and hopefully achieve qualifying times for a L3 gala, then maybe counties and level 2's and progress that way.