Total Immersion legacy?

[jtj321]

Not sure if this should be in the "ask the coach" section but here goes-I have a very long and slow stroke,-it drives me nuts that I cant seem to speed up my arm turnover-I think, after doing some homework at swimsmooth I'm a "classic overglider"-I learned to swim using the T.I. dvd,and this has left me with a long glide built in-next problem is eradicating it-I just wondered if anyone else had gone the T.I. route and had similar problems.
I love the non-splashy style,but good swimmers I've enviously watched can do smooth and fast!

[MadHighroller]

Typical results of TI !

You need to work the twitch muscles, this will take a little while to see the results...

When you swim next, dont pause into the catch phase... instead hand enters and goes from catch straight into the pull. You will start to feel a quicker turn over in your stroke. No more gliding... only on drills. This may make you and your shoulders fatigue quicker, so, interval work is best to start with.

Dont forget ; don't drop the wrist and keep the elbow high throughout.
The stroke is not shorter, still a good long stroke but a faster turn over.

[jtj321]

many thanks madhigh-I was in the lake last night and tried to keep my arms moving-it feels wrong and rushed,but I know thats the way forward.I might invest in a tempo trainer-thing is I've worked really hard to get the rotation,high elbow recovery etc,and I can feel me swimming flatter as I try to speed up-more drills I think.cheers.

[MadHighroller]

The Lake might not be the best place to see what you are doing.

If in a pool you will be able to watch what each hand/arm is doing. I have found it useful to look at where the entry is and what the hand, wrist and arm is doing occassionally.

[jtj321]

thanks again-I'm also crossing over I think,it's hard to evaluate your own stroke,and I'm a bit of a loner where swimming is concerned-the tri coach at the lake is good though,I just feel a bit long in the tooth to be shouted at by an ex-marine!-thats really unfair,he's great at what he does.

[NotVeryFast]

Originally Posted by jtj321

I just wondered if anyone else had gone the T.I. route and had similar problems.

Yes, many years ago I read the TI book, before I started competing in Masters swimming. It definitely resulted in me becoming less bad, but like you I eventually found it limiting, and have struggled ever since to make the transition to a more continuous propulsion technique. It's a major reason why I'm relatively better at longer distances where it's not so much of a problem. Sorry, I don't have any advice on how to get rid of the problem because I've never managed it and hence still can't sprint to save my life (despite being pretty decent at sprinting breast and fly where I don't have this problem, i.e. my inability to sprint at front crawl is a technique problem not a problem with outputting power over a short duration).

[jtj321]

Thanks nvf--the swimsmooth people seem to acknowledge this flaw in the T.I method (they don't call it by name ) I'm familiar with the corrective drills they suggest,as I said earlier I do think I might try a tempo trainer,but it is certainly a very difficult fault to overcome.I'm a plodder so I might get somewhere eventually!

[MadHighroller]

Originally Posted by NotVeryFast

Yes, many years ago I read the TI book, before I started competing in Masters swimming. It definitely resulted in me becoming less bad, but like you I eventually found it limiting, and have struggled ever since to make the transition to a more continuous propulsion technique. It's a major reason why I'm relatively better at longer distances where it's not so much of a problem. Sorry, I don't have any advice on how to get rid of the problem because I've never managed it and hence still can't sprint to save my life (despite being pretty decent at sprinting breast and fly where I don't have this problem, i.e. my inability to sprint at front crawl is a technique problem not a problem with outputting power over a short duration).

Errr sorry but is that the same NVF !!!???

[NotVeryFast]

Originally Posted by MadHighroller

Errr sorry but is that the same NVF !!!???

What do you mean?

[MadHighroller]

I specifically remember posts in the past regarding TI and I also remember your input into it.
You had positive input back then....plus a lot of detail.

I dont think jtj321 is asking about sprinting. I assumed that he/she is trying to get rid of the dead spot, that glide that so many get from TI.

jtj321 what is your approx height ? Do you only do long, non stop swims ? only Lake swims ?

[jtj321]

Madhiqh-thanks for your interest.I should say first I am keen,love swimming,but old! (60)-in the o/w season I normally do 2o/w swims and 1pool swim a week.
I do drills in the pool,long swims in the lake.
The tri coach at the lake says my stroke is pretty good for an old'un,but of course too slow.He suggested sprints as well.I loose the stroke when I try this so I wondered about a very gradual speed up?
At the cancelled gns today,what a shame for everyone,second time I've missed one!

[jtj321]

Ps- TI is not all bad,without it I would not have learned the f.c.,it was the only package I could find to self teach,and it took me ages tof get it,but the sense of achievement,then,and now was huge.

[NotVeryFast]

Originally Posted by MadHighroller

I specifically remember posts in the past regarding TI and I also remember your input into it.
You had positive input back then....plus a lot of detail.

I think you must be confusing me with someone else!

Originally Posted by MadHighroller

I dont think jtj321 is asking about sprinting. I assumed that he/she is trying to get rid of the dead spot, that glide that so many get from TI.

Yes, but the inability to sprint well is the most obvious manifestation of the dead spot because the faster you try to swim, the greater the proportion of your time is spent paused. This is why elite swimmers are able to achieve a fast stroke rate while also looking unhurried, because they aren't wasting time during each stroke.

I was mainly responding to "I just wondered if anyone else had gone the T.I. route and had similar problems", reassuring jtj321 that it's not just him/her, I've had the same problem.

For this reason, if anyone asks my advice nowadays on how to improve from a fairly poor standard of swimming, I recommend swimsmooth rather than TI. If someone can already swim reasonably well, and wants something to help with the finer details, some of the Go Swim DVDs are very good.

[MadHighroller]

Originally Posted by jtj321

Madhiqh-thanks for your interest.I should say first I am keen,love swimming,but old! (60)-in the o/w season I normally do 2o/w swims and 1pool swim a week.
I do drills in the pool,long swims in the lake.
The tri coach at the lake says my stroke is pretty good for an old'un,but of course too slow.He suggested sprints as well.I loose the stroke when I try this so I wondered about a very gradual speed up?
At the cancelled gns today,what a shame for everyone,second time I've missed one!

I am not a sprinter or an elite swimmer or particularly fast. I have however improved over time from my own steam, so can understand what you want.

You do 2 long lake swims and 1 drills session.... no threshold training ? I think you can add some threshold to your drill session.

Add a small amount to your pool session;
ie good warm up
5 x 200m pushing yourself or 5 x 100m. (If you want use a pullbuoy, so you are only concerntrating on the arms, lats, back)

Just try to eliminate the glide, straight into pull - rest when you need to. You dont need to sprint, just work harder than you would in the lake - harder for a shorter amount of time , remember the rest then repeat, if 5 x is too much try and do 3 x.
Then onto your drills. If the 5 x isnt enough then try and repeat after some drills... if you feel fatigued then you know the first set has worked !

Try and do this once a week, do not up it at all for 4 weeks.

Do not swim through pain, you just want to try and work the twitch muscles and increase your aerobic capacity.

[jtj321]

Many many thanks madhighroller,-that is really helpfull,thoughtfull,specific advice,I will be printing it off and using it as a training regime,truth is,looking at your suggestions,I seem to have forgotten you don't get better without pushing yourself.The long,long glide is all very well and good in a sort of meditative way,but don't be surprised if you can't keep up with your mum!Truly appreciate the help.