Advice needed for a newbie, please

Limeycat · 28-02-2007, 12:05 AM

Hi all,

I'm looking for any guidance on how to improve my swimming; I've been going regularly for about 18 months now, having done nothing since I did my Gold as a kid (I'm now 41). Up 'til recently I've just been going once a week with a friend who's competed since childhood and who is currently getting back into Masters competitions.

After going to the Shrewsbury Masters in January as a spectator, I've now set myself a vague goal for 2007 of "entering a Masters gala and not making a complete fool of myself", but having spent a bit of time lurking here, I'm rapidly coming to realise that I need to focus rather more in order to achieve even that paltry goal!

So, since Christmas, i've started by ramping my swimming up to 3 or 4 times a week. I'm mainly swimming crawl, and am usually doing 1 x 1 hour session in a 33m pool, and the other sessions usually about 45 mins or so in a 25m pool. These are usually after I've done an hour's gym workout (treadmill, bike, leg weights machine and crunchies), hence the shorter time. My stamina is now starting to improve, but so far my speed isn't!

I'm finding that I can swim forever when pulling, but suffer when I'm kicking and blow up completely after a couple of lengths when I try and put it together into full stroke! I'm doing 25m FC in about 23 seconds (starting in the water), and can get down the pool in around 23 strokes when I really stretch out and think about my swimming, but I use far more strokes when I try to speed up; I'm breathing bilaterally, usually every 5th stroke.

I'm starting to get OK on the touch and turn thing, but am usually too out of breath (or too scared of making an fool of myself!) to attempt a tumble. And I can't dive! Help! Am I being realistic in my goal of competing for the first time sometime this year (probably in the Autumn)? Can you recommend ways for me to improve at my weaknesses? And what should I concentrate on first? I do feel a bit at a loss where to start and although my friend has helped me masses, I'm very conscious of not taking up too much of her pool time when we go swimming together!

Many thanks for reading this and in anticipation of your suggestions!

Stevie_k · 28-02-2007, 08:12 AM

Hey Limeycat, welcome to the forums

Im at risk of sounding like a broken record here, cos i posted an almost identical email yesterday to a simular post.

I started masters in october 06. Couldnt do breast, fly, or back not 1 stroke of any of them. My crawl was ok but it was taking about 32 mins for 1500 meters. Couldnt do tumble turns at all.

So im hitting my first masters this saturday. Im going to try 50 meters of all strokes and 100 free. Ive taken about almost 6 mins out of my 1500 time, learnt to tumble etc. So in about 5 months.

Still a relative novice, especially compared to most on here.

If you search my post history you will see me squeezing the forum for info on just about every aspect of swimming in the last few months, starting with 'how the hell do you tumble turn' in october.

But youll be fine, just up the sessions bit by bit. I think getting those tumbles going now will help because they will actually improve your fitness. Hard to integrate and they take time but practice makes perfect and no time like the present. My coach told me to NEVER EVER compromise my tumble turns.

Having done it previously your muscles will soon remember what to do.

Good luck with it.

NotVeryFast · 28-02-2007, 11:02 AM

If you want to get better at swimming and aren't bothered about being able to do triathlons, I would drop the gym sessions and just do 4 x 1hr swimming sessions a week instead. This way you'll be much fresher for each swimming session which will help you to maintain good technique. I'm not surprised you suffer when kicking after all that work on the treadmill, bike and leg exercise machines.

You say you did your Gold as a kid, which must be the personal survival / lifesaving type thing that was around when I was a kid 5 years after you. This is a bit different to having been a competitive swimmer, did you ever swim for a club as a child? If not, then you either need your friend to try to teach you things like dives and tumbleturns, or find yourself a masters swimming club where they're happy to develop you into a competitive swimmer, as opposed to a club that is more geared towards people who are getting back into competitive swimming after a period away from it.

To build raw speed, do some speed work at the start of each session when you're fresh, doing some 25m or 50m sprints. Do them on whatever interval lets you feel fairly well recovered before starting the next one, e.g. you could try 8 x 25m on 60 seconds meaning that you start the next 25m swim 60 seconds after you started the previous one. Start off at a comfortable pace, then try to gradually increase the pace with each 25m, the idea is that by only increasing the speed a little each time, you don't drastically change your stroke and start flailing away, so after a few weeks of doing this you should start to become better able to swim fast in a controlled manner.

Also, you say you're getting very out of breath, but also that you're breathing every 5th stroke. This is a very tough breathing pattern for any significant distance, I would try breathing every 3 instead. A lot of people breathe every 2 for any significant distance at high speed. For 25m or 50m swims, every 5 or even fewer is fine, but probably not for 100m+.

Limeycat · 28-02-2007, 09:15 PM

Thanks to you both for your replies and suggestions - much appreciated!

Stevie_k - I've seen a lot of your posts whilst I've been lurking and I'm dead impressed with how much progress you've made over such a short time. Hope I can emulate it! Thanks for the tip about integrating the tumbles. It's so obvious I suppose, but up to now I've tended to take the easy way and just practise a few in isolation at the end of the session. Of course by this time i'm usually knackered, so I give up after half a dozen, and anyway it's not "real", as I only take a couple of strokes into and out of the turn. Must try harder, I think!

NVF - I'm not aiming for triathlons, I'm really doing gym work to burn fat and help get my weight down - the curse of the middle aged female office worker 8) Having said that, I take your point about needing to be fresher for my swim sessions, so I'm going to try juggling things around, so I don't do the gym and swim together like I have been doing.

You're right that the Gold was the personal survival award; I've never swum competitively - hated not being the best when I was a kid, so I stuck to what I was good at, which was gymnastics (and then boys, but that's another story!!).

Thanks for all the ideas about building speed and breathing. I'll give them a go and report back. My friend's very willing to help and has already taught me loads, though as I say, I'm very conscious of taking up her swimming time.

I'm not sure if there are any good Masters clubs around here (Stoke on Trent) - have had a look on the ASA site, but nothing stands out. I also work odd hours, so fitting in a regular club commitment might be a bit difficult, but I'd be willing to give it a try. If anyone's got any contacts, please would you let me know?

Cheers!

Juicy Lucy · 01-03-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limeycat

I'm not sure if there are any good Masters clubs around here (Stoke on Trent) - have had a look on the ASA site, but nothing stands out. I also work odd hours, so fitting in a regular club commitment might be a bit difficult, but I'd be willing to give it a try. If anyone's got any contacts, please would you let me know?

Cheers!

You really need to get into a masters club. You will be made most welcome and you will enjoy your swimming much more than swimming on your own.

Try contacting Tony Ward. He's the Midland Masters secretary and he also organises masters meets particularly aimed at newcomers to the sport.
Tel 01902 752579 or tony.ward@midlandswimming.org.uk

Eileen Salt may be able to point you in the direction of a masters club. She lives in Stone (near to Stoke-on-Trent) and is the Midlands League secretary.
Tel. 01785 816028

Or try David Sims (Stoke-on-Trent)
Tel. 01538 755671

Good luck

JL

Bully · 01-03-2007, 12:06 PM

Or contact Juicy Lucy, who is a European masters record holder, he knows an awful lot about masters swimming, and his geography is second to none, so could tell you what clubs to contact in your area. I can pm you his email address and mobile number if you like.

Juicy Lucy · 01-03-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bully

I can pm you his email address and mobile number if you like.

Inside leg measurement too?

You know too much Bully.

JL

Bully · 01-03-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy Lucy

You know too much Bully.

JL

Not enough JL but I'm keen to learn, if it's worth doing it's worth doing well!!!

Limeycat · 01-03-2007, 10:29 PM

Thanks for the info JL. I'll make contact as soon as things calm down a little at work!

Stevie, I forgot to say, best of luck for your meet on Saturday. Looking forward to reading about how you go on!

28-02-2007, 12:05 AM	#1
Limeycat Established Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Staffs Posts: 202	Advice needed for a newbie, please Hi all, I'm looking for any guidance on how to improve my swimming; I've been going regularly for about 18 months now, having done nothing since I did my Gold as a kid (I'm now 41). Up 'til recently I've just been going once a week with a friend who's competed since childhood and who is currently getting back into Masters competitions. After going to the Shrewsbury Masters in January as a spectator, I've now set myself a vague goal for 2007 of "entering a Masters gala and not making a complete fool of myself", but having spent a bit of time lurking here, I'm rapidly coming to realise that I need to focus rather more in order to achieve even that paltry goal! So, since Christmas, i've started by ramping my swimming up to 3 or 4 times a week. I'm mainly swimming crawl, and am usually doing 1 x 1 hour session in a 33m pool, and the other sessions usually about 45 mins or so in a 25m pool. These are usually after I've done an hour's gym workout (treadmill, bike, leg weights machine and crunchies), hence the shorter time. My stamina is now starting to improve, but so far my speed isn't! I'm finding that I can swim forever when pulling, but suffer when I'm kicking and blow up completely after a couple of lengths when I try and put it together into full stroke! I'm doing 25m FC in about 23 seconds (starting in the water), and can get down the pool in around 23 strokes when I really stretch out and think about my swimming, but I use far more strokes when I try to speed up; I'm breathing bilaterally, usually every 5th stroke. I'm starting to get OK on the touch and turn thing, but am usually too out of breath (or too scared of making an fool of myself!) to attempt a tumble. And I can't dive! Help! Am I being realistic in my goal of competing for the first time sometime this year (probably in the Autumn)? Can you recommend ways for me to improve at my weaknesses? And what should I concentrate on first? I do feel a bit at a loss where to start and although my friend has helped me masses, I'm very conscious of not taking up too much of her pool time when we go swimming together! Many thanks for reading this and in anticipation of your suggestions!

28-02-2007, 11:02 AM	#3
NotVeryFast ...but faster than most Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Surrey Posts: 4,447	If you want to get better at swimming and aren't bothered about being able to do triathlons, I would drop the gym sessions and just do 4 x 1hr swimming sessions a week instead. This way you'll be much fresher for each swimming session which will help you to maintain good technique. I'm not surprised you suffer when kicking after all that work on the treadmill, bike and leg exercise machines. You say you did your Gold as a kid, which must be the personal survival / lifesaving type thing that was around when I was a kid 5 years after you. This is a bit different to having been a competitive swimmer, did you ever swim for a club as a child? If not, then you either need your friend to try to teach you things like dives and tumbleturns, or find yourself a masters swimming club where they're happy to develop you into a competitive swimmer, as opposed to a club that is more geared towards people who are getting back into competitive swimming after a period away from it. To build raw speed, do some speed work at the start of each session when you're fresh, doing some 25m or 50m sprints. Do them on whatever interval lets you feel fairly well recovered before starting the next one, e.g. you could try 8 x 25m on 60 seconds meaning that you start the next 25m swim 60 seconds after you started the previous one. Start off at a comfortable pace, then try to gradually increase the pace with each 25m, the idea is that by only increasing the speed a little each time, you don't drastically change your stroke and start flailing away, so after a few weeks of doing this you should start to become better able to swim fast in a controlled manner. Also, you say you're getting very out of breath, but also that you're breathing every 5th stroke. This is a very tough breathing pattern for any significant distance, I would try breathing every 3 instead. A lot of people breathe every 2 for any significant distance at high speed. For 25m or 50m swims, every 5 or even fewer is fine, but probably not for 100m+. __________________ It isn't how fast you can become a good swimmer that matters, it's how good a swimmer you can become.

01-03-2007, 12:06 PM	#6
Bully I want to live forever, so far so good! Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,165	Or contact Juicy Lucy, who is a European masters record holder, he knows an awful lot about masters swimming, and his geography is second to none, so could tell you what clubs to contact in your area. I can pm you his email address and mobile number if you like. __________________ BRING BACK THE JUICE

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28-02-2007, 08:12 AM	#2
Stevie_k Hello! Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,962	Hey Limeycat, welcome to the forums Im at risk of sounding like a broken record here, cos i posted an almost identical email yesterday to a simular post. I started masters in october 06. Couldnt do breast, fly, or back not 1 stroke of any of them. My crawl was ok but it was taking about 32 mins for 1500 meters. Couldnt do tumble turns at all. So im hitting my first masters this saturday. Im going to try 50 meters of all strokes and 100 free. Ive taken about almost 6 mins out of my 1500 time, learnt to tumble etc. So in about 5 months. Still a relative novice, especially compared to most on here. If you search my post history you will see me squeezing the forum for info on just about every aspect of swimming in the last few months, starting with 'how the hell do you tumble turn' in october. But youll be fine, just up the sessions bit by bit. I think getting those tumbles going now will help because they will actually improve your fitness. Hard to integrate and they take time but practice makes perfect and no time like the present. My coach told me to NEVER EVER compromise my tumble turns. Having done it previously your muscles will soon remember what to do. Good luck with it.

28-02-2007, 09:15 PM	#4
Limeycat Established Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Staffs Posts: 202	Thanks to you both for your replies and suggestions - much appreciated! Stevie_k - I've seen a lot of your posts whilst I've been lurking and I'm dead impressed with how much progress you've made over such a short time. Hope I can emulate it! Thanks for the tip about integrating the tumbles. It's so obvious I suppose, but up to now I've tended to take the easy way and just practise a few in isolation at the end of the session. Of course by this time i'm usually knackered, so I give up after half a dozen, and anyway it's not "real", as I only take a couple of strokes into and out of the turn. Must try harder, I think! NVF - I'm not aiming for triathlons, I'm really doing gym work to burn fat and help get my weight down - the curse of the middle aged female office worker 8) Having said that, I take your point about needing to be fresher for my swim sessions, so I'm going to try juggling things around, so I don't do the gym and swim together like I have been doing. You're right that the Gold was the personal survival award; I've never swum competitively - hated not being the best when I was a kid, so I stuck to what I was good at, which was gymnastics (and then boys, but that's another story!!). Thanks for all the ideas about building speed and breathing. I'll give them a go and report back. My friend's very willing to help and has already taught me loads, though as I say, I'm very conscious of taking up her swimming time. I'm not sure if there are any good Masters clubs around here (Stoke on Trent) - have had a look on the ASA site, but nothing stands out. I also work odd hours, so fitting in a regular club commitment might be a bit difficult, but I'd be willing to give it a try. If anyone's got any contacts, please would you let me know? Cheers!

01-03-2007, 10:29 PM	#9
Limeycat Established Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Staffs Posts: 202	Thanks for the info JL. I'll make contact as soon as things calm down a little at work! Stevie, I forgot to say, best of luck for your meet on Saturday. Looking forward to reading about how you go on!

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